QB Competition

Originally posted by D-NOTTE:
Not picking sides here but if it wasn't for to shovel passes, Smith would have really sucked..


http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/2009/08/blitz-and-shotg.html?mi_rss=49ers%20Blog%20and%20Q%26A

"Yeah and if it weren't for short passes Hill would be like 4/15." Great here we go with petty crap.

This is why training camp stats are meaningless. Smith hasn't been throwing shovel passes all camp.

You guys are funny... no one ever said that Alex was gonna walk on the field and throw a perfect 20 for 20 every day... right away. He does have rust to shake off. Dropped passes won't help his cause. Sing is gonna push him like a drill sargeant, as well he should. There is still plenty of time left for this competition. The numbers overall are pretty tight right now b/w the QBs. The numbers are also (overall) pretty good... and that should make us all smile as fans. I'm waiting to hear two things on a consistent basis... (1) is Hill throws another accurate deep ball (has this happened at all?) .... (2) is Alex is quick and accurate with his underneath passes (sounds like ya gotta get quicker, Al)

The questions will be...

(1) can Alex accurately throw the underneath stuff nearly as well as Hill to win the job?
(2) can Alex show nearly the same or better pocket presence?

if these things become YES, he can?... then the question will be...

(3) can Hill throw the intermediate and deep passes nearly as well as Alex?

If the first 2 questions are answered YES... and the last one is NO ? Hill will be on the bench... like it or not.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
You guys are funny... no one ever said that Alex was gonna walk on the field and throw a perfect 20 for 20 every day... right away. He does have rust to shake off. Dropped passes won't help his cause. Sing is gonna push him like a drill sargeant, as well he should. There is still plenty of time left for this competition. The numbers overall are pretty tight right now b/w the QBs. The numbers are also (overall) pretty good... and that should make us all smile as fans. I'm waiting to hear two things on a consistent basis... (1) is Hill throws another accurate deep ball (has this happened at all?) .... (2) is Alex is quick and accurate with his underneath passes (sounds like ya gotta get quicker, Al)

The questions will be...

(1) can Alex accurately throw the underneath stuff nearly as well as Hill to win the job without being perfectly set?
(2) can Alex show nearly the same or better pocket presence in a game?

if these things become YES, he can?... then the question will be...

(3) can Hill throw the intermediate and deep passes nearly as well as Alex?

If the first 2 questions are answered YES... and the last one is NO ? Hill will be on the bench... like it or not.

I adjusted your list so that it is more accurate and here are the real answers to them:

1. No
2. No

3. He won't need to.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
You guys are funny... no one ever said that Alex was gonna walk on the field and throw a perfect 20 for 20 every day... right away. He does have rust to shake off. Dropped passes won't help his cause. Sing is gonna push him like a drill sargeant, as well he should. There is still plenty of time left for this competition. The numbers overall are pretty tight right now b/w the QBs. The numbers are also (overall) pretty good... and that should make us all smile as fans. I'm waiting to hear two things on a consistent basis... (1) is Hill throws another accurate deep ball (has this happened at all?) .... (2) is Alex is quick and accurate with his underneath passes (sounds like ya gotta get quicker, Al)

The questions will be...

(1) can Alex accurately throw the underneath stuff nearly as well as Hill to win the job?
(2) can Alex show nearly the same or better pocket presence?

if these things become YES, he can?... then the question will be...

(3) can Hill throw the intermediate and deep passes nearly as well as Alex?

If the first 2 questions are answered YES... and the last one is NO ? Hill will be on the bench... like it or not.

The thing that worries me the most about Smith is his inability to read defenses and his confidence in the intermediate passing game. If he can overcome that he has the tools to be a very succesfull QB.

So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by D-NOTTE:
Not picking sides here but if it wasn't for to shovel passes, Smith would have really sucked..


http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/2009/08/blitz-and-shotg.html?mi_rss=49ers%20Blog%20and%20Q%26A

"Yeah and if it weren't for short passes Hill would be like 4/15." Great here we go with petty crap.

This is why training camp stats are meaningless. Smith hasn't been throwing shovel passes all camp.

And to be honest from what's being reported from camp, it seems only as if Smith is the only one taking the long shots down the field and Hill only staying with the safe short game. So yes his "Camp Stats" look better but at least Smith is practicing on working our deep threat for the season.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

Yeah but in that 07 Seasn Opener, I remember Receivers dropping passes like Flies. In 06 for as much as he got killed cuz of his Oline, he had a pretty good f**king Season.

Originally posted by aacadena:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by D-NOTTE:
Not picking sides here but if it wasn't for to shovel passes, Smith would have really sucked..


http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/49ers/archives/2009/08/blitz-and-shotg.html?mi_rss=49ers%20Blog%20and%20Q%26A

"Yeah and if it weren't for short passes Hill would be like 4/15." Great here we go with petty crap.

This is why training camp stats are meaningless. Smith hasn't been throwing shovel passes all camp.

And to be honest from what's being reported from camp, it seems only as if Smith is the only one taking the long shots down the field and Hill only staying with the safe short game. So yes his "Camp Stats" look better but at least Smith is practicing on working our deep threat for the season.

Smith's deepest pass in TC has been 40 yards. It makes me even more comfortable with Hill because Hill can also get the ball 40 yards down the field once every 7 practices.

The deep ball correlated with arm strength is far too over rated. The deep ball is about timing more than anything.


Arm strength is vital on the 15 yard outs or when a QB needs to squeeze a ball in traffic. Alex Smith stares at the throw so much, his arm strength becomes a non-factor for him to try and squeeze anything in tight areas.

Originally posted by aacadena:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

Yeah but in that 07 Seasn Opener, I remember Receivers dropping passes like Flies. In 06 for as much as he got killed cuz of his Oline, he had a pretty good f**king Season.

Alex never had a pretty good season, People forget he only have 2 or 3 200yd games. No my friend Gore had an outstanding season and people tend to want to give Alex credit for Norv system QB....

I'm as tired of throwing out the obvious Kwame Harris, 20% drops in 07, and Hostler as OC stuff... as you are of hearing it. No more wasting time...

I'll simply say that I'm glad that Singletary is not myopic like the handful of fans here and on every other forum.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

unless you are watching game film, i dont think you can tell what the qbs reads are---you cant get that from tv, and even watching the game at stadium, there is too much action to try to follow all of the qbs reads...

as far as making off balance throws, isnt the point to have the qb try to make as many throws on balance? certainly it is nice to have a guy who can make an occasional off balance throw when a play breaks down, but is that a major part of the job description? and smith has made some nice off balance throws (see the seahawks game when he bounced off the blitzing corner and got pass to gore for td)

as for accuracy, you are right, smith could improve there---as a young developing qb i would expect that he will, especially if he is coached up like he should have been in his first few seasons

Originally posted by D-NOTTE:

Originally posted by aacadena:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

Yeah but in that 07 Seasn Opener, I remember Receivers dropping passes like Flies. In 06 for as much as he got killed cuz of his Oline, he had a pretty good f**king Season.

Alex never had a pretty good season, People forget he only have 2 or 3 200yd games. No my friend Gore had an outstanding season and people tend to want to give Alex credit for Norv system QB....

Yeah but he was getting killed in just about everygame, they just reposted that video on Kwame Harris, and Man i never knew how much of a beating he took in '06. Gore did have an outstanding season in '06, best in Niner History, but we wouldn't have been able to beat the Seahawks that season in Seattle, if Alex had not made two or three plays in that game. Once that happened in that game, Gore got going. Not to mention his two starting WR were Anotonio Bryant (pretty good) and Arnaz Battle (nothing spectacular).

Originally posted by hofer36:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
So glad that you can see the future and have no need of an open mind.

Even in his BEST of BEST games, I have yet to see Alex Smith make consistent reads, make off balance throws, and be consistently accurate.

Yes, I will give him props for late game drive and win in Arizona but look back and tell me that Arizona was actually trying to get pressure on the QB on that drive. They gave him a TC type of pocket that game.

Until he shows it in a live game, I will NEVER hold anything Alex Smith does in the pocket in practice as a sign that he is "coming along". He's faaaaar too comfortable knowing that he will not get hit and he does take that extra split second to get his read and make the throw.

They need to have a guy holding a bag stand behind him and give him a nice little pop once it hits 3 seconds. I would like to see how many times he gets hit just as or before he throws the ball.

unless you are watching game film, i dont think you can tell what the qbs reads are---you cant get that from tv, and even watching the game at stadium, there is too much action to try to follow all of the qbs reads...

as far as making off balance throws, isnt the point to have the qb try to make as many throws on balance? certainly it is nice to have a guy who can make an occasional off balance throw when a play breaks down, but is that a major part of the job description? and smith has made some nice off balance throws (see the seahawks game when he bounced off the blitzing corner and got pass to gore for td)

as for accuracy, you are right, smith could improve there---as a young developing qb i would expect that he will, especially if he is coached up like he should have been in his first few seasons

You do hope that your QB makes as many on balance throws as he can but that implies you must have great pass protection. Bill Walsh had his QBs practice off balance throws because if you first or second read isn't open, you better be ready to make a throw you normally don't make.

The fact is, fundamentals are what they are and they help in the drop back and front foot action when going through your progressions. The fact is, when it is actually time to make the throw, there are too many variables around you that affect your fundamentals more times than not.

In Alex's history, he has proven to be a VERY poor thrower even if he loses a couple of inches in his forestep for the throw. THESE are the things he lacks. In all honesty, in normal conditions, Hill appears to have a stronger arm than Alex Smith. People seem to forget when Hill came in for Dilfer 2 years ago, he was hitting 12-15 yard outs to D-Drop with pinpoint accuracy.

I don't know why but nothing gets to me more than the false thinking that arm strength equals more deep balls. This is the only reason why I am leaning against Alex Smith in my latest posts. Who the EFF cares about his arm strength and the fact that he threw a 20-yarder to Jason Hill or a 40 yarder to Bruce. Shaun Hill can do that if needed.

What all of us, people who hope Alex becomes the franchise, should want to see is that he is leading his receivers very well on the 10 yard throws and throws it where it's easy to catch or is getting the ball out the some good rythm. Who cares how far the throw is. I don't want to read about Shaun Hill throwing with better accuracy and allowing his receivers to even make 1-handed catches. I want to read that about Alex but I have a feeling he doesn't posses that ability.

Singletary had a discussion in the huddle. First time the head coach has done that in how long? Whoever said Kawakami might be reaching has a very good point. How does he know what's going on in the huddle? Animated doesn't mean "upset" it means "animated." It means "passionate." Now I recall Singeltary has been hollering at the offensive line suggesting they might be letting to many guys through. It's possible, however unlikely in TopCat's completely biased read of the situation, that he might have been talking to EVERYONE.

Maiocco did make mention of Singletary making the DEFENSE re-form its huddle. Patrick Willis was the leader there. I guess that makes Willis a target of Singletary's ire now?

There is also this from Barrows:

Quote:
Off target to tight end Joe John Finley on the sideline. 0-1

Over the middle to Finley for five yards. 1-2.

No one open, outlet pass to Frank Gore. 2-3.

Nice 15 yarder on the left sideline to Josh Morgan. 3-4.

Quick pass to Vernon Davis in the middle of the field. Safety Mark Roman breaks on the ball but is not fast enough. 4-5.

Bad snap. Smith's pass knocked down. 4-6.

Pass batted down by blitzing Dashon Goldson. 4-7.

Pass to Gore in the grass too low. 4-8.

Quick out to Brandon Jones for 6 yards. 5-9.

Quick toss tipped at the line of scrimmage. 5-10.

Screen pass to Micheal Spurlock. 6-11.

Shovel pass to Gore. Would have been a big gain if he hadn't run into pulling Adam Snyder. 7-12.

Quick screen to Morgan, but the receiver can't handle it. 7-13.

Fake reverse shovel to Gore. (Who says Jimmy Raye is boring?) 8-14.

Now, I tend to read as well as the next guy. I see three passes--THREE--that were tipped at the line of scrimmage, and a drop. Now, I realize we're supposed to blame Alex Smith every time someone else does something to negate a play. I understand that it's kosher to excuse Kwame Harris and Darrell Jackson and Larry Allen for things like holding calls, dropped touchdown passes and allowing Rocky Bernard through the line.

But I tend to go against the grain on this one.