QB Competition

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Alex Smith = 19 TDs, 31 INTs in 4 seasons, 3 of which he played in.

Terry Bradshaw: 46 INTs and 22 TD's in first two seasons, both of which he played in. Gosh, that's more INT's in two years than Smith had in four years. This Bradshaw is a bust.

And Ryan Leaf had 33 interceptions and 13 TDs in his first 2 seasons. By your logic, this Leaf guy and Alex Smith are bound for the Hall of Fame, right?

Alex is Alex; He is not Leaf and he is not Bradshaw.

Just trying to make a simple point: the jury is still out on Smith whether anybody around here wants to believe it or not. Of course, Smith is Smith. But, like Bradshaw, he hasn't fulfilled his potential in his first couple of seasons of playing. Like Bradshaw, he's got a great arm, but people suspect he just can't play the game. At least people allow that Smith is smart. People hammered Bradshaw for being "stupid" or being a "hillbilly." Bradshaw stunk up the place in his first couple of seasons and even when they went 11-3, Bradshaw threw as many INT's as TD's, just like Smith did in the only season he seemed to do OK. And, I guarantee you that many fans thought Terry Bradshaw was a bust. They were premature and wrong. I'm just hoping people are also wrong about Alex Smith because I'm a Niner fan.

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Alex Smith = 19 TDs, 31 INTs in 4 seasons, 3 of which he played in.

Terry Bradshaw: 46 INTs and 22 TD's in first two seasons, both of which he played in. Gosh, that's more INT's in two years than Smith had in four years. This Bradshaw is a bust.

And Ryan Leaf had 33 interceptions and 13 TDs in his first 2 seasons. By your logic, this Leaf guy and Alex Smith are bound for the Hall of Fame, right?

Alex is Alex; He is not Leaf and he is not Bradshaw.

Just trying to make a simple point: the jury is still out on Smith whether anybody around here wants to believe it or not. Of course, Smith is Smith. But, like Bradshaw, he hasn't fulfilled his potential in his first couple of seasons of playing. Like Bradshaw, he's got a great arm, but people suspect he just can't play the game. At least people allow that Smith is smart. People hammered Bradshaw for being "stupid" or being a "hillbilly." Bradshaw stunk up the place in his first couple of seasons and even when they went 11-3, Bradshaw threw as many INT's as TD's, just like Smith did in the only season he seemed to do OK. And, I guarantee you that many fans thought Terry Bradshaw was a bust. They were premature and wrong. I'm just hoping people are also wrong about Alex Smith because I'm a Niner fan.

I agree... I sure hope I am wrong on this one (about AS never reaching potential), because if I am right, that is a huuuuuge waste for the niners that we are all fans of...

Originally posted by 49er4eva:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
... but that's just an Alexcuse... he was a 1st overall pick! He should have fought them all off and thrown a 40 yard laser- TD as fire came out of his eyes + rear!

Naw actually he was holding the ball too long. You know his patented "Deer in headlights look"

When he held the ball too long sometimes,which he did on occasion,it was because our lame ass receiver corps were pretty bad at getting open.Much more frequently our pass blocking broke down and he was pressured before the routes even had time to develop.Our offensive line just flat out sucked at pass protection the past 5-6 years,a good line will give the qb at least three seconds to look down the field,Smith rarely got that.You act like all the problems with Smith have been his own fault and no one else on the offense was responsible for the plays breaking down,which is very short sighted.As for the deer in the headlights thing,there isn't a qb in the league that doesn't get that look when their protection breaks down and they have defenders running at them unblocked...not one.

THIS

... but OL protection and WR seperation are just Alexcuses. As a 1st overall pick, Alex was supposed to shrug off the one or three defenders and throw the perfect pass OR was supposed to quickly release the pass in such a way that the receiver had 3-5 seconds after the pass to then run under it or get open.

Hmmm... someone remind me, who was our leading receiver in 06? Oh, that's right... it was Gore... our dump-off target. Mean anything?... naaaaahhh!

Originally posted by oldman9er:
THIS

... but OL protection and WR seperation are just Alexcuses. As a 1st overall pick, Alex was supposed to shrug off the one or three defenders and throw the perfect pass OR was supposed to quickly release the pass in such a way that the receiver had 3-5 seconds after the pass to then run under it or get open.

Hmmm... someone remind me, who was our leading receiver in 06? Oh, that's right... it was Gore... our dump-off target. Mean anything?... naaaaahhh!

"Rushing is more dependent on the offensive line than people realize, but pass protection is more dependent on the quarterback himself than people realize."

Link

In 2007, Alex's pre-injury games (3) he gave up 9 sacks. Same year, an inexperienced QB, who was getting his first start ever, only gets 6 sacks in 3 games behind the same line.

I don't know about you, but I would think the guy with 20+ starts would have a lot less sacks then the guy that had almost no NFL game experience.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
THIS

... but OL protection and WR seperation are just Alexcuses. As a 1st overall pick, Alex was supposed to shrug off the one or three defenders and throw the perfect pass OR was supposed to quickly release the pass in such a way that the receiver had 3-5 seconds after the pass to then run under it or get open.

Hmmm... someone remind me, who was our leading receiver in 06? Oh, that's right... it was Gore... our dump-off target. Mean anything?... naaaaahhh!

"Rushing is more dependent on the offensive line than people realize, but pass protection is more dependent on the quarterback himself than people realize."

Link

In 2007, Alex's pre-injury games (3) he gave up 9 sacks. Same year, an inexperienced QB, who was getting his first start ever, only gets 6 sacks in 3 games behind the same line.

I don't know about you, but I would think the guy with 20+ starts would have a lot less sacks then the guy that had almost no NFL game experience.

Nope... not the same line... try again. Focus your mind back to 07 and you would remember how horribly Jonas Jennings and Justin Smiley played before injury. The entire OL suffered with the newly appointed Hostler at first. They were not that good throughout, but definitely improved on protection as the year went along. Smiley was lost at RG under Hostler, and Jonas was getting beat around the edge often. Both were eventually replaced due to injury after Alex was crushed by Bernard. So the same OL you say? Nope... not even the same scheme when Tollner was brought in to alter it. Comparing sack totals is stupid regardless, as sack numbers are not a full indicator of QB pressure.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
THIS

... but OL protection and WR seperation are just Alexcuses. As a 1st overall pick, Alex was supposed to shrug off the one or three defenders and throw the perfect pass OR was supposed to quickly release the pass in such a way that the receiver had 3-5 seconds after the pass to then run under it or get open.

Hmmm... someone remind me, who was our leading receiver in 06? Oh, that's right... it was Gore... our dump-off target. Mean anything?... naaaaahhh!

"Rushing is more dependent on the offensive line than people realize, but pass protection is more dependent on the quarterback himself than people realize."

Link

In 2007, Alex's pre-injury games (3) he gave up 9 sacks. Same year, an inexperienced QB, who was getting his first start ever, only gets 6 sacks in 3 games behind the same line.

I don't know about you, but I would think the guy with 20+ starts would have a lot less sacks then the guy that had almost no NFL game experience.

So it is Smith's fault that he was sacked nine times in three games?That is bulls**t,the only thing a qb can do to avoid a sack when the line sucks like that is throw it away,which Smith did,leading to poor completion %'s.I been watching football for over 30 years,and there is no part of the team,no matter what the stat geeks try to claim,that is more responsible for sacks than the offensive line.You ask any coach or player and they will tell you that the offense is only as good as the offensive line allows it to be,who gives a f**k what some number crunching geeks claim?Have they ever played football?I think not.That "inexperienced" 6 year veteran was not playing behind the same line either,I guess you didn't watch the games.Smiley and Jennings were replaced before Hill ever came in,and Tollner stepping in as an "adviser" helped as well.So your trying to say that Smith is the sole reason Smith got sacked is not only ridiculous,but factually wrong.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
THIS

... but OL protection and WR seperation are just Alexcuses. As a 1st overall pick, Alex was supposed to shrug off the one or three defenders and throw the perfect pass OR was supposed to quickly release the pass in such a way that the receiver had 3-5 seconds after the pass to then run under it or get open.

Hmmm... someone remind me, who was our leading receiver in 06? Oh, that's right... it was Gore... our dump-off target. Mean anything?... naaaaahhh!

"Rushing is more dependent on the offensive line than people realize, but pass protection is more dependent on the quarterback himself than people realize."

Link

In 2007, Alex's pre-injury games (3) he gave up 9 sacks. Same year, an inexperienced QB, who was getting his first start ever, only gets 6 sacks in 3 games behind the same line.

I don't know about you, but I would think the guy with 20+ starts would have a lot less sacks then the guy that had almost no NFL game experience.

Nope... not the same line... try again. Focus your mind back to 07 and you would remember how horribly Jonas Jennings and Justin Smiley played before injury. The entire OL suffered with the newly appointed Hostler at first. They were not that good throughout, but definitely improved on protection as the year went along. Smiley was lost at RG under Hostler, and Jonas was getting beat around the edge often. Both were eventually replaced due to injury after Alex was crushed by Bernard. So the same OL you say? Nope... not even the same scheme when Tollner was brought in to alter it. Comparing sack totals is stupid regardless, as sack numbers are not a full indicator of QB pressure.

LOL... You missed the point entirely. Re-read the quote or follow the link and read it there.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
THIS

... but OL protection and WR seperation are just Alexcuses. As a 1st overall pick, Alex was supposed to shrug off the one or three defenders and throw the perfect pass OR was supposed to quickly release the pass in such a way that the receiver had 3-5 seconds after the pass to then run under it or get open.

Hmmm... someone remind me, who was our leading receiver in 06? Oh, that's right... it was Gore... our dump-off target. Mean anything?... naaaaahhh!

"Rushing is more dependent on the offensive line than people realize, but pass protection is more dependent on the quarterback himself than people realize."

Link

In 2007, Alex's pre-injury games (3) he gave up 9 sacks. Same year, an inexperienced QB, who was getting his first start ever, only gets 6 sacks in 3 games behind the same line.

I don't know about you, but I would think the guy with 20+ starts would have a lot less sacks then the guy that had almost no NFL game experience.

So it is Smith's fault that he was sacked nine times in three games?That is bulls**t,the only thing a qb can do to avoid a sack when the line sucks like that is throw it away,which Smith did,leading to poor completion %'s.I been watching football for over 30 years,and there is no part of the team,no matter what the stat geeks try to claim,that is more responsible for sacks than the offensive line.You ask any coach or player and they will tell you that the offense is only as good as the offensive line allows it to be,who gives a f**k what some number crunching geeks claim?Have they ever played football?I think not.That "inexperienced" 6 year veteran was not playing behind the same line either,I guess you didn't watch the games.Smiley and Jennings were replaced before Hill ever came in,and Tollner stepping in as an "adviser" helped as well.So your trying to say that Smith is the sole reason Smith got sacked is not only ridiculous,but factually wrong.

WTF, When did I ever say it was the sole reason? You need to learn to read son.

And Yes, I think Alex has his share of fault for those 9 sacks. He held the ball way too long, and was slow moving through his progressions. He did not see Wide open receivers and overthrew the simplest of passes way too often.

He definitely held on to the ball too long when Rocky Bernard broke in and smashed him. I think he held onto that thing for at least 2.5 seconds before he was wiped out. That's what's wrong with the guy. You should be able to get rid of that thing within the first two seconds. And, when he tried to throw the ball after dislocating that shoulder? Accuracy problems. Who would have thought a QB would have accuracy problems while throwing during the same season in which he separated his throwing shoulder? It's an outrage.

People are having a hard time realizing that when you have a bad start to your career, you're more likely to NOT BE A GOOD PLAYER. For every few players who turned it around (Bradshaw, Young, Aikman) there are 20 others who didn't.

It's really not that smart of an argument to pull out Terry Bradshaw's stats from his first few years and say that "ALEX STILL HAS A CHANCE!!!", because someone else can pull out 50 other players who didn't make it.

Originally posted by Leathaface:
People are having a hard time realizing that when you have a bad start to your career, you're more likely to NOT BE A GOOD PLAYER. For every few players who turned it around (Bradshaw, Young, Aikman) there are 20 others who didn't.

It's really not that smart of an argument to pull out Terry Bradshaw's stats from his first few years and say that "ALEX STILL HAS A CHANCE!!!", because someone else can pull out 50 other players who didn't make it.

But as fans we are allowed to be optimistic. That's what fans do! Every season is like a fresh start...a new beginning.

I can only speak for myself, but I'd be crazy to think that a Terry Bradshaw story comes more than once in a blue moon. I only bring him up for perspective. It's helpful simply to show that it's not impossible for a guy in Smith's position to end up proving his doubters wrong - nothing more than that. Do I predict that he's going to end up being compared to Terry Bradshaw? No.

Originally posted by BrodieFan:
He definitely held on to the ball too long when Rocky Bernard broke in and smashed him. I think he held onto that thing for at least 2.5 seconds before he was wiped out. That's what's wrong with the guy. You should be able to get rid of that thing within the first two seconds. And, when he tried to throw the ball after dislocating that shoulder? Accuracy problems. Who would have thought a QB would have accuracy problems while throwing during the same season in which he separated his throwing shoulder? It's an outrage.

I mean, it's not like his tendon was ripped off the bone or anything.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by BrodieFan:
He definitely held on to the ball too long when Rocky Bernard broke in and smashed him. I think he held onto that thing for at least 2.5 seconds before he was wiped out. That's what's wrong with the guy. You should be able to get rid of that thing within the first two seconds. And, when he tried to throw the ball after dislocating that shoulder? Accuracy problems. Who would have thought a QB would have accuracy problems while throwing during the same season in which he separated his throwing shoulder? It's an outrage.

I mean, it's not like his tendon was ripped off the bone or anything.

lol ya really nolan ruined his career and i cant believe people cant even give him a chance especially with his progress in the 2006 season i mean he did win 2 games for us out of 3 (loss was to steelers)