3-4 or 4-3

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Yeah, we need a dominating NT that can take on two, or even three blockers to free up Spikes and Willis, create one on one opportunites for the DEs and OLBs. Justin Smith can control his side of the Dline, but we need someone opposite of him to do the same.

The D-line did a decent job of keeping opposing linemen off Willis and TKO last season. As far as "someone opposite" of Smith to control the line, Soap was double teamed more often than not last season. I think thats why Haralson was moved to play behind Soap, because Soap was/is strong enough to hold the point of attack against two blockers. Smith doesn't really "control" his side of the line, as he is more of a penetrator/pass rusher.
I'm curious to see how the D-line will look with Soap back in the middle. Under Nolan, as I understand it, the NT played a read and react 2 gap scheme. Now without Nolan, the NT plays only 1 gap which really seemed to help Franklin. It certainly seems like the team is confident with Franklin and Soap going into the season as they made ZERO attempts to sign any NTs. And yes, they were/are out there (Tank Johnson anyone?)
With Evans signed, both the starting DEs will be capable of rushing the passer. This will help on passing downs, but I'm wondering how he will fare against the run.

IMO what is better about the 3-4 than the 4-3:

1. Cap friendly, DT's and DE's cost more than LB's

2. Flexibility, with the 3-4 you can all sorts of formations to disguise blitzes and confuse offense. With the 4-3 your playing more straight up and really relying more on the talent of your players skill set rather than scheming. A perfect example is Peyton Manning, he struggles more against the 3-4 cause he states its harder to read where the blitz is coming from.

Just my observation and opinion.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
IMO what is better about the 3-4 than the 4-3:

1. Cap friendly, DT's and DE's cost more than LB's

2. Flexibility, with the 3-4 you can all sorts of formations to disguise blitzes and confuse offense. With the 4-3 your playing more straight up and really relying more on the talent of your players skill set rather than scheming. A perfect example is Peyton Manning, he struggles more against the 3-4 cause he states its harder to read where the blitz is coming from.

Just my observation and opinion.

True, but if you don't have the players to run the 3-4 properly, then you're not getting the full benefits of it.

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
IMO what is better about the 3-4 than the 4-3:

1. Cap friendly, DT's and DE's cost more than LB's

2. Flexibility, with the 3-4 you can all sorts of formations to disguise blitzes and confuse offense. With the 4-3 your playing more straight up and really relying more on the talent of your players skill set rather than scheming. A perfect example is Peyton Manning, he struggles more against the 3-4 cause he states its harder to read where the blitz is coming from.

Just my observation and opinion.

True, but if you don't have the players to run the 3-4 properly, then you're not getting the full benefits of it.

Which brings me to say that, its not easy to transition to a 3-4 and execute the next day. But when all the pieces are in place, it is a very dangerous defense to have.

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
IMO what is better about the 3-4 than the 4-3:

1. Cap friendly, DT's and DE's cost more than LB's

2. Flexibility, with the 3-4 you can all sorts of formations to disguise blitzes and confuse offense. With the 4-3 your playing more straight up and really relying more on the talent of your players skill set rather than scheming. A perfect example is Peyton Manning, he struggles more against the 3-4 cause he states its harder to read where the blitz is coming from.

Just my observation and opinion.

True, but if you don't have the players to run the 3-4 properly, then you're not getting the full benefits of it.

I might be wrong but did we switch around from the 3-4 to the 4-3 last year? And when we did I think we sucked really bad! Which is why once Singletary instituted the 3-4 as our SOLE defense our team played TONS better. Not only that but he switched our front three from being a 2-gap (point of attack) line to a 1-gap (penetrating) line. This made a huge difference as well in the fact that Franklin and I believe Sopoaga play much better with this style than the 2-gap.

Originally posted by Giants9ersfan:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
IMO what is better about the 3-4 than the 4-3:

1. Cap friendly, DT's and DE's cost more than LB's

2. Flexibility, with the 3-4 you can all sorts of formations to disguise blitzes and confuse offense. With the 4-3 your playing more straight up and really relying more on the talent of your players skill set rather than scheming. A perfect example is Peyton Manning, he struggles more against the 3-4 cause he states its harder to read where the blitz is coming from.

Just my observation and opinion.

True, but if you don't have the players to run the 3-4 properly, then you're not getting the full benefits of it.

I might be wrong but did we switch around from the 3-4 to the 4-3 last year? And when we did I think we sucked really bad! Which is why once Singletary instituted the 3-4 as our SOLE defense our team played TONS better. Not only that but he switched our front three from being a 2-gap (point of attack) line to a 1-gap (penetrating) line. This made a huge difference as well in the fact that Franklin and I believe Sopoaga play much better with this style than the 2-gap.

More like we flip flopped from a 4-2-5 to a 3-4, but was more in a 4-2-5 when Nolan was here in the first half of the season. But your right, we did simplify the D by going to more of a one-gap, you would also see the difference in Justin Smith' play. Smith had less assignments after staying in a straight 3-4, he would attack more rather than stay at home or drop into coverage. I thought we would have problems with Smith switching to a more 3-4 End, but the more I see him play, hes got a better motor for the 3-4. Too bad BY didn't stay one more year with Justin Smith at RE, I would've loved to see that.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Giants9ersfan:

Originally posted by B650:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
IMO what is better about the 3-4 than the 4-3:

1. Cap friendly, DT's and DE's cost more than LB's

2. Flexibility, with the 3-4 you can all sorts of formations to disguise blitzes and confuse offense. With the 4-3 your playing more straight up and really relying more on the talent of your players skill set rather than scheming. A perfect example is Peyton Manning, he struggles more against the 3-4 cause he states its harder to read where the blitz is coming from.

Just my observation and opinion.

True, but if you don't have the players to run the 3-4 properly, then you're not getting the full benefits of it.

I might be wrong but did we switch around from the 3-4 to the 4-3 last year? And when we did I think we sucked really bad! Which is why once Singletary instituted the 3-4 as our SOLE defense our team played TONS better. Not only that but he switched our front three from being a 2-gap (point of attack) line to a 1-gap (penetrating) line. This made a huge difference as well in the fact that Franklin and I believe Sopoaga play much better with this style than the 2-gap.

More like we flip flopped from a 4-2-5 to a 3-4, but was more in a 4-2-5 when Nolan was here in the first half of the season. But your right, we did simplify the D by going to more of a one-gap, you would also see the difference in Justin Smith' play. Smith had less assignments after staying in a straight 3-4, he would attack more rather than stay at home or drop into coverage. I thought we would have problems with Smith switching to a more 3-4 End, but the more I see him play, hes got a better motor for the 3-4. Too bad BY didn't stay one more year with Justin Smith at RE, I would've loved to see that.

Amen brother! i would of loved to have had keith traylor in his hay-day plugging up the middle...

Originally posted by AKfanster:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Yeah, we need a dominating NT that can take on two, or even three blockers to free up Spikes and Willis, create one on one opportunites for the DEs and OLBs. Justin Smith can control his side of the Dline, but we need someone opposite of him to do the same.

The D-line did a decent job of keeping opposing linemen off Willis and TKO last season. As far as "someone opposite" of Smith to control the line, Soap was double teamed more often than not last season. I think thats why Haralson was moved to play behind Soap, because Soap was/is strong enough to hold the point of attack against two blockers. Smith doesn't really "control" his side of the line, as he is more of a penetrator/pass rusher.
I'm curious to see how the D-line will look with Soap back in the middle. Under Nolan, as I understand it, the NT played a read and react 2 gap scheme. Now without Nolan, the NT plays only 1 gap which really seemed to help Franklin. It certainly seems like the team is confident with Franklin and Soap going into the season as they made ZERO attempts to sign any NTs. And yes, they were/are out there (Tank Johnson anyone?)
With Evans signed, both the starting DEs will be capable of rushing the passer. This will help on passing downs, but I'm wondering how he will fare against the run.

Dude, Tank Johnson is far from being an upgrade over either Soap or Franklin. Johnson had a halfway decent season in 2005 with the Bears, registering 25 tackles and 5 sacks, but that was the best he's ever done and it was as a 4-3 DT. He's light for a 3-4 NT at 305 and he showed last year with the Cowboys that he's ineffective as a NT in a 3-4, registering only 22 total tackles and 13 solo. Soap and Franklin both had better numbers and both have the size to hold down the position until the team finds that true NT that we're all hoping for.

Sopoaga will have his finest season as a Niner this year. Playing only a 1-gap at NT, his speed and strength come even more into play. This guy will have a shot at the Pro Bowl this season. Nose tackles just don't come into this league and dominate. Not when you have some of the baddest dudes on the planet lined up opposite you -- MEN in their 30's who have been kicking butt on the line for many years. It takes a nose tackle a couple of years to grow into the position. Sopoaga has more desire than most and will be a great NT this season. Mark it down and you can criticize me at the end of the season if he doesn't. I'm not worried.

OUR 3-4 DEFENSE AS OF TODAY (March 22, 2009)

I have 17 defense players who are locks or near locks to make the
team. I do not count Alan Rossum as a defensive back.

We could carry 23 to 25 defensive players.

There is clearly room for change.


DEFENSIVE LINE

1.Smith, Justin DE 6'4" 285 9
2. Balmer, Kentwan DE 6'5" 315 2
3. Evans, Demetric DE 6'4" 287 8
McDonald, Ray DE 6'3" 290 3

4. Franklin, Aubrayo NT 6'1" 317 7
5. Sopoaga, Isaac NT 6'2" 330 6

Franklin is in the last year of his contract.
Ray McDonald is injured.

Ray McDonald could be cut or assigned to IR.

Ideally, Balmer wins the DE position and Sopoaga
shows that he can play NT.

In the draft, we should pick up a nose tackle.

LINEBACKERS

6. Haralson, Parys OLB 6'0" 255 4
7. Lawson, Manny OLB 6'5" 240 4
8. Washington, Mark OLB 6'3" 250 1

Moore, Jay OLB 6'4" 256 2

9. Willis, Patrick ILB 6'1" 240 3
10. Spikes, Takeo ILB 6'2" 242 12

Ulbrich, Jeff ILB 6'0" 240 10
Brooks, Ahmad LB 6'3" 259 4
Roland, Justin ILB 5'11" 242 1

Haralson, Lawson, Willis, and Spikes will be the starters.
Mark Washington should make the squad.

Ulbrich , Brooks, Moore, and Roland, are on the bubble.
Brooks is the big question mark.

Need at least one more outside linebacker and maybe one ILB
in the draft.

DEFENSIVE BACKS

11. Harris, Walt CB 5'11" 196 14
12. Clements, Nate CB 6'0" 205 9
13. Brown, Tarell CB 5'10" 193 3

Spencer, Shawntae CB 6'1" 190 6
Hudson, Marcus CB 6'2" 200 4

14. Goldson, Dashon FS 6'2" 200 3
15. Smith, Reggie FS 6'1" 200 2

16. Lewis, Michael SS 6'1" 222 8
17. Williams, Jimmy SS 6'3" 212 2

Baker, Lewis SS 6'3" 203 0

Spencer, Hudson, and Baker are on the bubble.


OVERALL

The change from Nolan’s hybrid to a standard 3-4 will entail a
reduction in the number of defensive backs that we carry
and a corresponding increase in the number of linebackers.

hell yea. I just watched the 2009 minicap day 2 video on the 49ers homepage. It's a good video. It made me feel pumped up for our defense hearing justin smith and takeo spikes talk about how our defense is expected inside the locker room to be top 10.
I dont know about you guys, But I think it means alot more when our great vet players are sold on this defense. It felt good to hear justin smith say top 10 and top 5 lol.
fangasm

Cant wait for september!

Thanks Buck, good post! So many holes to fill makes me feel like a fence builder.

I was rather impressed with the play of our defense at the end of our season ie..after Nolan was fired. This squad has the potential to be well within the top 10 for this year. Franklin being in a contract year might make him play for the next contract so we might see him accelerate his play. The big question mark on this squad is if Goldson is going to play an entire season. If he does we are covered but if not we are very thin. I do not hear of any talk for Roman's services so he might be our backup this year and if Goldson goes down we are back to square one: no int from the FS.
Ahmad brooks is showing that he is dead weight. TBC at least tried when he was here, he just lacked talent. Brooks has way more potential but is a lazy piece. I say if he does not start to produce in TC, he does not make the team.
My one wish for this season, since I live in Colorado, is to be able to see my Niners win and shut all the nay sayers up.
Come on Sing make them choke on their feet!!!

who is this guy Washington, Mark OLB 6'3" 250 1