3-4 or 4-3

Originally posted by RichmondPete:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
We had our opportunities over the years to shift into a 4-3. Since we did nothing to acquire the few pieces, I guess we have to endure another 3-4 stretch... with no proven talent at the 2 most important positions. (NT/OLB)

Face it, we currently have crucial question-marks for either scheme right now.

Whatever... if our offense improves under JH, we will win enough to make a strong challenge for the division regardless.

We would be missing those same 2 most important things if we switched to a 43. They would just have different names. We would still be lacking a dynamic DE and a dominant presence at DT. Just as important to a 43 as NT/OLB to a 34

To each his own, but I would disagree at least in theory with the bolded.

I like the DTs we have for a 4-3 in Sop, RJF, and RayMac. Still could use another guy for depth.

I like Justin at LE... I think he can abuse RTs and be a stud there. Not much depth there since we haven't been pursuing 4-3 options, but Tukuafu and even RayMac could be used there in a pinch.

It's pure guesswork, but I would like to see what Brooks can offer as a RE. This is the position most concerning, as again, no pursuit of 4-3 options.

We could have stellar LBs with Willis inside and Lawson at SLB. I like our options at WLB with Bowman and Gibson.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by RichmondPete:

Originally posted by oldman9er:
We had our opportunities over the years to shift into a 4-3. Since we did nothing to acquire the few pieces, I guess we have to endure another 3-4 stretch... with no proven talent at the 2 most important positions. (NT/OLB)

Face it, we currently have crucial question-marks for either scheme right now.

Whatever... if our offense improves under JH, we will win enough to make a strong challenge for the division regardless.

We would be missing those same 2 most important things if we switched to a 43. They would just have different names. We would still be lacking a dynamic DE and a dominant presence at DT. Just as important to a 43 as NT/OLB to a 34

To each his own, but I would disagree at least in theory with the bolded.

I like the DTs we have for a 4-3 in Sop, RJF, and RayMac. Still could use another guy for depth.

I like Justin at LE... I think he can abuse RTs and be a stud there. Not much depth there since we haven't been pursuing 4-3 options, but Tukuafu and even RayMac could be used there in a pinch.

It's pure guesswork, but I would like to see what Brooks can offer as a RE. This is the position most concerning, as again, no pursuit of 4-3 options.

We could have stellar LBs with Willis inside and Lawson at SLB. I like our options at WLB with Bowman and Gibson.

We would have a good group of linebackers, I would throw Spikes in there as well he is a proven 43 OLB.

As for Justin Smith, he was simply not the player in Cincinnati that he is with us. I just don't think he is athletic enough to be an elite 43 end. He is the perfect 34 end in my opinion.

I would give you Soap, as he is an improved player, but Ray Mac is weak against the run and I don't believe he could be an 3 down player at DT, which is what you want in a 43. RJF is a ? and as far as Brooks at RE, I guess so. I would be worried if he was our starting RE though simply because he came out of college as an inside linebacker and he has already disappointed with his transition to OLB, he is an extremely undisciplined player and would be a false start machine

As for Gibson and Bowman, we can only assume they will be solid players but we really do not know.

Finally, a very goiod article on Fangio's 3-4 that incorporated our need and personnel,

49ers pass rush needed another Smith

Originally posted by NCommand:
Finally, a very goiod article on Fangio's 3-4 that incorporated our need and personnel,

49ers pass rush needed another Smith

That is about how I see it going.

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Finally, a very goiod article on Fangio's 3-4 that incorporated our need and personnel,

49ers pass rush needed another Smith

That is about how I see it going.

I also like the fact that Baalke stressed that 3-4 OLB shouldn't be graded on their coverage ability and their primary roles should be to get the QB and seal the edge.

f**ken about time.

Unless you come cheap, Manny.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Finally, a very goiod article on Fangio's 3-4 that incorporated our need and personnel,

49ers pass rush needed another Smith

That is about how I see it going.

I also like the fact that Baalke stressed that 3-4 OLB shouldn't be graded on their coverage ability and their primary roles should be to get the QB and seal the edge.

f**ken about time.

Unless you come cheap, Manny.

I call this the Anti-Lawson quote from Baalke:

Baalke, “The #1 criteria at the position [of the OLB] is being able to pressure the passer. The #2 criteria is setting the edge for the run. What we ask of them on their feet as droppers [in coverage], is very limited. So you’re not looking, when you’re talking about a 3-4 OLB, he doesn’t have to be a great cover-guy out in space. He’s got to be functional.

…a guy who’s able to finish plays.”

"We're not asking them to run step-for-step with wide receivers," he said. "We're asking them to occupy a zone. And when you're 6-4 with 36-inch arms, if you're functional on your feet and can drop into coverage, you can cover a wide area because of just the length, the size of the man."

It is noted that #1 & #2 go hand-in-hand. The OLB’s will be getting after the QB first and foremost but if the play ends up being a running play, they will be required to help set the edge and even make tackles for loss or recognize and defend the screen pass. #3, the OLB in Fangio’s defense will only drop back on occasion and only in a zone for a couple of seconds before passing off to the secondary. This is merely to disguise blitzes and confuse the QB by clogging short passing lanes (where you see many LBers make INT’s). Pressure most likely will be coming from the opposite side. You will NOT see Aldon or Brooks or whomever “covering” a TE, RB or WR and staying with him throughout the entire passing play anymore.

Like I said, Baalke and Fangio GET this concept and that’s why we went a pass rushing OLB with the first overall pick in the draft. That ALONE should excite a lot of people who are fans of defense and specifically, fans of a real 3-4 defense.

Baalke video break down of Aldon Smith - OLB Requirements

With the DT's we have, Wills, Bowman, Clements (who would be a great cover 2 CB) I really have no idea why we aren't running more of a cover 2 scheme.

3-4 with Aldon and Manny Lawson BLITZING

forget pass coverage dammit.

Originally posted by bigwads:
With the DT's we have, Wills, Bowman, Clements (who would be a great cover 2 CB) I really have no idea why we aren't running more of a cover 2 scheme.

An interesting idea... (cover 2 or Tampa 2 ?) Would be better had we been adding pieces for it along the way. So since we have not been, let's see what we are left with...
____________________________________________________________________________

We need the quick, DL penetration up front... * bolded indicates likely starter

- Justin Smith... nice... get him back down to 280 to play outside at DE? Or keep him at his current weight for the inside at DT? (for this, going with outside)

- Aldon Smith... better fit... can really get after the QB from any DL spot if he bulks up more. Like the idea of him as a cover/tampa 2 end.

- Isaac Sopoaga... haven't seen the penetration, but he was always asked to plug, so who knows? He is a bit large at 320 now, but we can work with this inside. He is a bit of a freak athlete for his size.

- RayMac.... definitely a good fit... reduce weight to a natural 280... takes pressure off the knees... Ray is quick and fits this penetrating scheme well, if re-signed.

- RJF... back down to his natural 295 lbs. I like his chances of starting, but for now... good DT depth for this cover 2 scheme.

- Will Tukuafu... completely unproven... good size and skill set for DE in a cover 2 scheme...

- Ahmad Brooks... would have to be a RDE... has the size, strength, and burst... but hasn't yet shined.

- Parys Haralson.... better rusher with hand in the dirt. A real liability vs the run at DE...
____________________________________________________________________________

Gotta have LBs with range...

- Manny Lawson... if re-signed, could certainly be an asset as OLB in this scheme.

- Patrick Willis... awesome for the role... can cover a lot of ground and quickly occupy the main weakness (deep middle).

- TKO... not a grand fit... getting to old and clunky, and MLB is obviously Willis' baby. Likely would move on from....

- ?Navorro Bowman... another good fit... speedy option at WLB. Battles Mays for the starting WLB spot?

- ?Taylor Mays... hmmm... bulk him up to 235-240 as an OLB?... a thought. Battles Bowman for the starting WLB spot?

- Thaddeus Gibson... another excellent option at OLB in this scheme.

- McKillop/Kristick/Joseph .... depth at best.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
With the DT's we have, Wills, Bowman, Clements (who would be a great cover 2 CB) I really have no idea why we aren't running more of a cover 2 scheme.

An interesting idea... (cover 2 or Tampa 2 ?) Would be better had we been adding pieces for it along the way. So since we have not been, let's see what we are left with...
____________________________________________________________________________

We need the quick, DL penetration up front... * bolded indicates likely starter

- Justin Smith... nice... get him back down to 280 to play outside at DE? Or keep him at his current weight for the inside at DT? (for this, going with outside)

- Aldon Smith... better fit... can really get after the QB from any DL spot if he bulks up more. Like the idea of him as a cover/tampa 2 end.

- Isaac Sopoaga... haven't seen the penetration, but he was always asked to plug, so who knows? He is a bit large at 320 now, but we can work with this inside. He is a bit of a freak athlete for his size.

- RayMac.... definitely a good fit... reduce weight to a natural 280... takes pressure off the knees... Ray is quick and fits this penetrating scheme well, if re-signed.

- RJF... back down to his natural 295 lbs. I like his chances of starting, but for now... good DT depth for this cover 2 scheme.

- Will Tukuafu... completely unproven... good size and skill set for DE in a cover 2 scheme...

- Ahmad Brooks... would have to be a RDE... has the size, strength, and burst... but hasn't yet shined.

- Parys Haralson.... better rusher with hand in the dirt. A real liability vs the run at DE...
____________________________________________________________________________

Gotta have LBs with range...

- Manny Lawson... if re-signed, could certainly be an asset as OLB in this scheme.

- Patrick Willis... awesome for the role... can cover a lot of ground and quickly occupy the main weakness (deep middle).

- TKO... not a grand fit... getting to old and clunky, and MLB is obviously Willis' baby. Likely would move on from....

- ?Navorro Bowman... another good fit... speedy option at WLB. Battles Mays for the starting WLB spot?

- ?Taylor Mays... hmmm... bulk him up to 235-240 as an OLB?... a thought. Battles Bowman for the starting WLB spot?

- Thaddeus Gibson... another excellent option at OLB in this scheme.

- McKillop/Kristick/Joseph .... depth at best.

I dont know about Aldon Smith playing DT.

4-1-7

Originally posted by FreddyG:

I dont know about Aldon Smith playing DT.

I want Aldon at DE in this hypthetical, but he could slide in whenever we want when in obvious pass downs. I do think he's a better fit as DL rather than LB.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by FreddyG:

I dont know about Aldon Smith playing DT.

I want Aldon at DE in this hypthetical, but he could slide in whenever we want when in obvious pass downs. I do think he's a better fit as DL rather than LB.

Oh ok. I thought it was Ray and Justin on the ends

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by bigwads:
With the DT's we have, Wills, Bowman, Clements (who would be a great cover 2 CB) I really have no idea why we aren't running more of a cover 2 scheme.

An interesting idea... (cover 2 or Tampa 2 ?) Would be better had we been adding pieces for it along the way. So since we have not been, let's see what we are left with...
____________________________________________________________________________

We need the quick, DL penetration up front... * bolded indicates likely starter

- Justin Smith... nice... get him back down to 280 to play outside at DE? Or keep him at his current weight for the inside at DT? (for this, going with outside)

- Aldon Smith... better fit... can really get after the QB from any DL spot if he bulks up more. Like the idea of him as a cover/tampa 2 end.

- Isaac Sopoaga... haven't seen the penetration, but he was always asked to plug, so who knows? He is a bit large at 320 now, but we can work with this inside. He is a bit of a freak athlete for his size.

- RayMac.... definitely a good fit... reduce weight to a natural 280... takes pressure off the knees... Ray is quick and fits this penetrating scheme well, if re-signed.

- RJF... back down to his natural 295 lbs. I like his chances of starting, but for now... good DT depth for this cover 2 scheme.

- Will Tukuafu... completely unproven... good size and skill set for DE in a cover 2 scheme...

- Ahmad Brooks... would have to be a RDE... has the size, strength, and burst... but hasn't yet shined.

- Parys Haralson.... better rusher with hand in the dirt. A real liability vs the run at DE...
____________________________________________________________________________

Gotta have LBs with range...

- Manny Lawson... if re-signed, could certainly be an asset as OLB in this scheme.

- Patrick Willis... awesome for the role... can cover a lot of ground and quickly occupy the main weakness (deep middle).

- TKO... not a grand fit... getting to old and clunky, and MLB is obviously Willis' baby. Likely would move on from....

- ?Navorro Bowman... another good fit... speedy option at WLB. Battles Mays for the starting WLB spot?

- ?Taylor Mays... hmmm... bulk him up to 235-240 as an OLB?... a thought. Battles Bowman for the starting WLB spot?

- Thaddeus Gibson... another excellent option at OLB in this scheme.

- McKillop/Kristick/Joseph .... depth at best.

I've always prefered the 4/3 but with most teams using many situational lineups there is a need for flexibility. I like your thoughts and can see it working. Can also see a 2/4/5 in some passing downs with the speed of Mays, Willis and the young guys.

Of course, the key is still having coaches who can mix up the D calls to confuse the offenses. Fangio seems to be that type of guy. I would love to see Willis blitzing more and wonder if Mays has any skill in that area.

We did alot of Dime towards the end of last year.

It was meh.