Eric Heitmann is a Good Football Player

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I am beginning to diagnose why some people have a deep hatred toward Eric Heitmann. It is all about a play in the second game of 2008, or a play back in 2007.

That is the form of bias that clouds some people from making a fair and impartial analysis of his play. In other words, Heitmann could grade out at 100% in this game, and the previous game, and the game before, but it doesn't matter because of what happened 10 weeks ago, or 68 weeks ago.

Good football players make errors. Nobody is perfect, and I certainly have never stated that Heitmann is perfect, or near perfect. However, he is a good football player, period.

Just like he played well against, the Cards, Seahawks, Giants, Eagles.....RIGHT DOOD! keep beliving your own propaganda.'

He was good 2 years and 3 years ago, time to move on.

Originally posted by solidg2000:


In this first picture it is a passing play
Baas blocked his man to the right
Chilo blocked his man to the right
Eric blocked Baas' man to the left
Leaving the defender to go right through the line untouched
The blame goes directly on the center
Why? Because he is the captain and is the one who should line up the line and tell them who to block.
It is also his fault because he is responsible for both "A" gaps, which is exactly where the defender came from



In this pic we are on OUR 3 yard line
NOT a Goal line stand
Snyder has his man out of the play
Staley is blocking on the other end
Chilo came out after the LB
Baas pulls on the play and hits the DE
Heitmann is pushed into Frank Gore
If Heitmann would of pushed his guy to the left like he was supposed to Gore runs free for at least 7 to 10 yards. There are 6 other Cowboys blocked in this pic.
So why you brought this pic up to defend Heitmann is beyond me
[/quote

Yes, the second pic is 3rd & 8 from our 1 yard line. This is the play in which Heitmann was supposedly "blown up." It was posted to demonstrate that while it may not have been his best play of the day, he wasn't "blown up." He was two yards downfield.

On the first pic, why do you assume Heitmann made a bad call? Isn't it more likely that Chilo made the mistake? Seems to me like Heitmann thought Chilo would be blocking down on the NT.

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I am beginning to diagnose why some people have a deep hatred toward Eric Heitmann. It is all about a play in the second game of 2008, or a play back in 2007.

That is the form of bias that clouds some people from making a fair and impartial analysis of his play. In other words, Heitmann could grade out at 100% in this game, and the previous game, and the game before, but it doesn't matter because of what happened 10 weeks ago, or 68 weeks ago.

Good football players make errors. Nobody is perfect, and I certainly have never stated that Heitmann is perfect, or near perfect. However, he is a good football player, period.

It's not that dude Heitmann is not a leader and as a center your in charge of your line. Look at Jeff Saturday, Kevin Mawae etc. they are great leaders and at the line tells and points at the defensive players that are coming. Heitmann don't do that. Never liked him really over rated player.

You are right. Heitmann is not a leader................. Wait! What was that??????

I stand corrected. Heitmann was selected the offensive captain for the year...by the other players.

That big "C" on Heitmann's jersey. That "C" stands for "Captain". I'll trust the guys on the team understand the concept and definition of "leader".

Heitmann points about 50 times a game to other guys on blocking assignments. What are you watching?

Please stop. You are embarrassing yourself. Honestly, it is painful to read.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 27, 2008 at 19:40:46 ]

Originally posted by solidg2000:


In this first picture it is a passing play
Baas blocked his man to the right
Chilo blocked his man to the right
Eric blocked Baas' man to the left
Leaving the defender to go right through the line untouched
The blame goes directly on the center
Why? Because he is the captain and is the one who should line up the line and tell them who to block.
It is also his fault because he is responsible for both "A" gaps, which is exactly where the defender came from



In this pic we are on OUR 3 yard line
NOT a Goal line stand
Snyder has his man out of the play
Staley is blocking on the other end
Chilo came out after the LB
Baas pulls on the play and hits the DE
Heitmann is pushed into Frank Gore
If Heitmann would of pushed his guy to the left like he was supposed to Gore runs free for at least 7 to 10 yards. There are 6 other Cowboys blocked in this pic.
So why you brought this pic up to defend Heitmann is beyond me

First, how do you know the blocking assignment on the top picture is Heitmann's? It could be Heitmann's and it could be Rachal's. I tend to believe it was Rachal's, since Heitmann's move was deliberate to the left at the snap, and he had Ratliff directly in front of him, in the gap to his right. It wouldn't make sense to double down to the left, if he knew Rachal was going right. I'll trust the vet over the rookie on this one, especially when the coach said the rookie played a bad game. Now, maybe Heitmann should have double-checked to make sure Rachal knew that Ratliff was his responsibility, and for that, I downgraded him on that play.

On the second picture, this was one of Heitmann's losses during the game. MM discussed this one. One of the very few losses. Now, please download the other 50+ snaps where Ratliff is not even close to the QB, or when Heitmann effectively moves Ratliff out of the way. I've got a sneaky suspicion you won't.

I could take photo shots of Willis being effectively moved by a guard during the game. Or being out of place. Our taking a false step. So, what? No one grades at 100%, and to suggest so means that you do not understand the game. Consistency, not perfection. He was consistently very good in the Dallas game.

I'm going to take MM's evaluation over yours in this one. Just concede defeat today, and cheer for Heitmann to fail next week.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 27, 2008 at 19:53:59 ]

I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of football as I've never played, but I do know that this offensive line has been burned everywhere; some games it's up the middle, some games it's off the edges. But I've played enough team sports in my life to know that the team would not select Heitmann as the captain if he wasn't good. Based on what I've read and seen in games the only two positions that seem guaranteed going in to next season would be LT and C.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by solidg2000:


In this first picture it is a passing play
Baas blocked his man to the right
Chilo blocked his man to the right
Eric blocked Baas' man to the left
Leaving the defender to go right through the line untouched
The blame goes directly on the center
Why? Because he is the captain and is the one who should line up the line and tell them who to block.
It is also his fault because he is responsible for both "A" gaps, which is exactly where the defender came from



In this pic we are on OUR 3 yard line
NOT a Goal line stand
Snyder has his man out of the play
Staley is blocking on the other end
Chilo came out after the LB
Baas pulls on the play and hits the DE
Heitmann is pushed into Frank Gore
If Heitmann would of pushed his guy to the left like he was supposed to Gore runs free for at least 7 to 10 yards. There are 6 other Cowboys blocked in this pic.
So why you brought this pic up to defend Heitmann is beyond me

First, how do you know the blocking assignment on the top picture is Heitmann's? It could be Heitmann's and it could be Rachal's. I tend to believe it was Rachal's, since Heitmann's move was deliberate to the left at the snap, and he had Ratliff directly in front of him, in the gap to his right. It wouldn't make sense to double down to the left, if he knew Rachal was going right. I'll trust the vet over the rookie on this one, especially when the coach said the rookie played a bad game. Now, maybe Heitmann should have double-checked to make sure Rachal knew that Ratliff was his responsibility, and for that, I downgraded him on that play.

On the second picture, this was one of Heitmann's losses during the game. MM discussed this one. One of the very few losses. Now, please download the other 50+ snaps where Ratliff is not even close to the QB, or when Heitmann effectively moves Ratliff out of the way. I've got a sneaky suspicion you won't.

I could take photo shots of Willis being effectively moved by a guard during the game. Or being out of place. Our taking a false step. So, what? No one grades at 100%, and to suggest so means that you do not understand the game. Consistency, not perfection. He was consistently very good in the Dallas game.

I'm going to take MM's evaluation over yours in this one. Just concede defeat today, and cheer for Heitmann to fail next week.

1st pic
I pin it on Heitmann because he is the leader and he makes the line calls!
So if your the supervisor at your job and you tell one employee to take care of job "A" with you. Then tell the next employee to take care of job "C" then latter on the day your boss yells at you for forgetting job "B". Who's fault is it? Thats right it's yours for not assigning anyone to job "B"

2nd pic
It was brought up to "prove" that Heitmann won a battle up front. The person thought we were on a goal line stands. And I just pointed out we were on our 3 yard line and he got pushed back.

I know you don't win them all but you got to win them when they matter the most.

I never said I didn't like Heitmann. I do, but do I think he can play better and should be playing better? YES! Because I've seen him at his best and this isn't it. Justifying his drop in play by pointing out others weakness doesn't make him look better and doesn't solve the problem. The point is can he do better? YES! should we want him to do better? YES!


And finally
To make a final point about myself, I never hope and wish for our teams failure. I have never wished ill wishes to any 49er. I always support all of our players no matter how much I disagree with their play or start or signing. I also am never a I told you so person. For example, JTO I was one of the many that did not like the signing and the eventual start of him as our QB. But every game I cheered him on and wished for the best. Even after the whole JTO benching and thread after thread I did not participate in the I told you so crowd. So please don't bunch me in with your behaviors because we all know your the first to do that sort of thing

cough http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=113445 cough

Originally posted by WildTurkey:

Originally posted by Method:
Wild Turkey, whoever you are, you really need to use your real name. Wild Turkey is the type of name that will never have any credibility anywhere.

The name has a history to it
a tailgate history to it

o rly?

Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:

Originally posted by WildTurkey:

Originally posted by Method:
Wild Turkey, whoever you are, you really need to use your real name. Wild Turkey is the type of name that will never have any credibility anywhere.

The name has a history to it
a tailgate history to it

o rly?

ya rly!

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by solidg2000:


In this first picture it is a passing play
Baas blocked his man to the right
Chilo blocked his man to the right
Eric blocked Baas' man to the left
Leaving the defender to go right through the line untouched
The blame goes directly on the center
Why? Because he is the captain and is the one who should line up the line and tell them who to block.
It is also his fault because he is responsible for both "A" gaps, which is exactly where the defender came from



In this pic we are on OUR 3 yard line
NOT a Goal line stand
Snyder has his man out of the play
Staley is blocking on the other end
Chilo came out after the LB
Baas pulls on the play and hits the DE
Heitmann is pushed into Frank Gore
If Heitmann would of pushed his guy to the left like he was supposed to Gore runs free for at least 7 to 10 yards. There are 6 other Cowboys blocked in this pic.
So why you brought this pic up to defend Heitmann is beyond me

First, how do you know the blocking assignment on the top picture is Heitmann's? It could be Heitmann's and it could be Rachal's. I tend to believe it was Rachal's, since Heitmann's move was deliberate to the left at the snap, and he had Ratliff directly in front of him, in the gap to his right. It wouldn't make sense to double down to the left, if he knew Rachal was going right. I'll trust the vet over the rookie on this one, especially when the coach said the rookie played a bad game. Now, maybe Heitmann should have double-checked to make sure Rachal knew that Ratliff was his responsibility, and for that, I downgraded him on that play.

On the second picture, this was one of Heitmann's losses during the game. MM discussed this one. One of the very few losses. Now, please download the other 50+ snaps where Ratliff is not even close to the QB, or when Heitmann effectively moves Ratliff out of the way. I've got a sneaky suspicion you won't.

I could take photo shots of Willis being effectively moved by a guard during the game. Or being out of place. Our taking a false step. So, what? No one grades at 100%, and to suggest so means that you do not understand the game. Consistency, not perfection. He was consistently very good in the Dallas game.

I'm going to take MM's evaluation over yours in this one. Just concede defeat today, and cheer for Heitmann to fail next week.

2nd pic
It was brought up to "prove" that Heitmann won a battle up front. The person thought we were on a goal line stands. And I just pointed out we were on our 3 yard line and he got pushed back.

I don't know where this confusion is coming from - I NEVER said this was a goal line stand. I posted the photo to show that Heitmann didn't get "blown up." Blown up means he either got pancaked or, at minimum, pushed into the backfield. This did NOT happen. Heitmann is actually doing his job on this play. Watch it again for yourself if you can. At the snap, Rachal fires out and whiffs on Ratliff, he's supposed to chip him before moving on to the second level and taking on a linebacker. In the meantime Bass is pulling from his spot to also take on Ratliff and he's late getting over there. Heitmann is blocking Canty and doing a nice job of sealing him off inside. The hole is supposed to be between Canty and Ratliff, but because both Rachal and Bass don't execute properly, there is no hole and Ratliff easily makes the tackle. There is NO WAY you can say Heitmann is at fault for this play. Watch it again. I'll post it to youtube if you're interested.

How about listing all the centers in the league that Heitman is BETTER than.

To argue that a player is "good" is almost meaningless because this game is RELATIVE to other players.

If he is "good" that means he is BETTER than 51% of the starting centers in the league.

No. hes not

Originally posted by BrianGO:
How about listing all the centers in the league that Heitman is BETTER than.

To argue that a player is "good" is almost meaningless because this game is RELATIVE to other players.

If he is "good" that means he is BETTER than 51% of the starting centers in the league.

He's better than 51%, or 50% (which would make more sense) of the centers in this league. Is that "good" enough for you?

But let me add on top of this: Is Wragge better than 50% of the centers in the league? Baas? Wallace? These guys are marginal starters or bench players, or planks in the rear end players.

I'm not saying that Heitmann is a great player. He's just a lot better than the other guys on the roster, and is a good football player, period.

I'm simply taking on the vendetta many board members, for some strange reason, have against him.

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Nov 29, 2008 at 10:31:22 ]

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I am beginning to diagnose why some people have a deep hatred toward Eric Heitmann. It is all about a play in the second game of 2008, or a play back in 2007.

That is the form of bias that clouds some people from making a fair and impartial analysis of his play. In other words, Heitmann could grade out at 100% in this game, and the previous game, and the game before, but it doesn't matter because of what happened 10 weeks ago, or 68 weeks ago.

Good football players make errors. Nobody is perfect, and I certainly have never stated that Heitmann is perfect, or near perfect. However, he is a good football player, period.

It's not that dude Heitmann is not a leader and as a center your in charge of your line. Look at Jeff Saturday, Kevin Mawae etc. they are great leaders and at the line tells and points at the defensive players that are coming. Heitmann don't do that. Never liked him really over rated player.

You are right. Heitmann is not a leader................. Wait! What was that??????

I stand corrected. Heitmann was selected the offensive captain for the year...by the other players.

That big "C" on Heitmann's jersey. That "C" stands for "Captain". I'll trust the guys on the team understand the concept and definition of "leader".

Heitmann points about 50 times a game to other guys on blocking assignments. What are you watching?

Please stop. You are embarrassing yourself. Honestly, it is painful to read.

Dude anyone can get a Captain symbol on their jersey. I saw roman with the captain symbol once and he had the radio helmet. Don't mean he's any good.
Don't you think as a "Captain" you are held responsible for the O-line?
You have the right to your opinion but mock my words this thread will blow up in your face quick.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
How about listing all the centers in the league that Heitman is BETTER than.

To argue that a player is "good" is almost meaningless because this game is RELATIVE to other players.

If he is "good" that means he is BETTER than 51% of the starting centers in the league.

He's better than 51%, or 50% (which would make more sense) of the centers in this league. Is that "good" enough for you?

But let me add on top of this: Is Wragge better than 50% of the centers in the league? Baas? Wallace? These guys are marginal starters or bench players, or planks in the rear end players.

I'm not saying that Heitmann is a great player. He's just a lot better than the other guys on the roster, and is a good football player, period.

I'm simply taking on the vendetta many board members, for some strange reason, have against him.

I agree with your premise: Heitmann may not be a probowler, but he's a good football player, and the most experienced Olineman we've got. There are mahy other areas on the team that need to be addressed before his name should come up.

Query: to what does your phrase "planks in the rear end players" refer??

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
How about listing all the centers in the league that Heitman is BETTER than.

To argue that a player is "good" is almost meaningless because this game is RELATIVE to other players.

If he is "good" that means he is BETTER than 51% of the starting centers in the league.

He's better than 51%, or 50% (which would make more sense) of the centers in this league. Is that "good" enough for you?

But let me add on top of this: Is Wragge better than 50% of the centers in the league? Baas? Wallace? These guys are marginal starters or bench players, or planks in the rear end players.

I'm not saying that Heitmann is a great player. He's just a lot better than the other guys on the roster, and is a good football player, period.

I'm simply taking on the vendetta many board members, for some strange reason, have against him.

I agree with your premise: Heitmann may not be a probowler, but he's a good football player, and the most experienced Olineman we've got. There are mahy other areas on the team that need to be addressed before his name should come up.

Query: to what does your phrase "planks in the rear end players" refer??

I dissagree that he is better than 50% of centers in this league

Better centers:

Bills
Dolphins
Patriots
Jets
Ravens
Steelers
Browns
Texans
Colts
Titans
Chargers
Giants
Cowboys
Eagles
Redskins
Bears
Packers
Vikings
Falcons
Panthers
Saints
Bucs
Broncos
Jags

So pretty much he's less than 50% Even the raiders might have a better Center