Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

I can't speak for others, but speaking for myself, McNair was a beast. He had the crap beat out of him regularly and still made plays. He outplayed his circumstances, and you would only know that if you watched a lot of him. I loved watching him play and would always tune in to see what he'd do next. He was a bonafide playmaker. You don't get your number retired without being a special player. His MVP year was DEFINITELY NOT a joke.

He had a couple good receiving weapons in Wycheck and Derrick Mason, but neither were superstars or TD major red zone threats. Mason was very very good for a long time, extremely underrated IMO. But the year TEN went to the Super Bowl, their leading receiver was Dyson with barely over 650 yds. Again, I always felt McNair played above the caliber of team that was around him,

This year McNair missed 5 games only had 2100 passing with 12 tds and 8 ints. He actually got outplayed (statistically speaking) by Neil O'Donnell 1300 10-5 in only half the games.

That said mofo was tough as nails. I actually remember a coworker of mine saying... "if I hear them call McNair a warrior one more time....."

I do remember that. McNair I fully agree isn't a HOF QB, but he had a very good career as one of the top dual threat QBs in that era.

I'm probably, well we're all probably getting a bit off topic, but the point is more that I still think Trey has a great chance to have a career with multiple pro bowls in his future. I believe in the kid a ton. It's just my opinion. Even if I didn't believe in him, I'd have to be willing to say either way, I haven't seen anything yet to say for sure he's gonna go one way or the other at this point.

I think Trey has the fixings for a very good qb in this league. I really do. Some think I hate him, which I don't, I just am very weary of thinking he can do anything until it's seen. For me personally, he doesn't have any tape in his life that makes me think he is "special".

and I think that's the biggest disconnect between someone like myself and NY. I don't want a "damn good" qb. I think we had that in Jimmy (maybe not as good as McNair but still damn good).

i want the next "Special" QB. I want a guy that when the top 5 guys in the league are talked about, he's in the Convo. Where teams desire to get someone of his caliber. Someone who will be in the HOF. A guy that plays at the level of Brees/Young/Montana/Manning/Rodgers etc.
those legitimate greats that are franchise QBs.

Can Lance get there? Idk. None of us do. I have no issue with some thinking he can/will. I genuinely hope he does if he ends up starting for us. I just feel like I have a lot more reasons to question if he can than to believe he can, at this point. I just want to see Lance in tough football situations that he hasn't been in before. Which isn't necessarily his fault but until I see those, I'm skeptical.

the big thing that I really like about Lance and Purdy, and I feel like this gets often overlooked by fans in general, is their character. I think both guys have the right mental makeup. I think Purdy is ahead right now in leadership because of his experience, but I also think Lance can get there once he plays more. It's hard to find any qb with the mental makeup they have, it's super cool that we have two.

Yeah I mean, I get what you're saying. I think the agitation with the phrasing is that "good" vs. "darn good" is very different from one person to the next, and even if you elaborate, you still have guys that kind of fall on the spectrum in between.

To me, it's like there's two categories really:

1) Unquestioned Generational Elite/HOF worthy guys - Mahomes/Rodgers/Young/Montana/Brees/Elway/Brady, etc. (but of course some of these guys weren't immediately great)

2) Everybody else on the spectrum between "good" (meaning above average) to "darn good" (IMO, guys who were special talents with elite traits).

And yeah, you have a ton of guys that fall under category #2. From Jimmy G to Alex Smith, to Dak, to Kirk Cousins, to Air McNair or Donovan McNabb in the past (another comparison I've seen for Trey). These guys all have won and some even made it to the super Bowl, but none of the guys listed won one.

You want a guy who can consistently gives you the ability to get there and win it. I get that. We all want that. I definitely don't think we've seen enough of Trey to know what he's gonna be. For that matter, we might not have seen enough to know what Brock's going to be, but it's reeeeeally hard to bet against him based on what he put out right away.

I'd sure love it if we had both the next Brees and the next Mahomes on this squad. All we can do now is speculate.. Ughhh.. Come on Pre-season.. Just get here so we can see these guys play.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I can't speak for others, but speaking for myself, McNair was a beast. He had the crap beat out of him regularly and still made plays. He outplayed his circumstances, and you would only know that if you watched a lot of him. I loved watching him play and would always tune in to see what he'd do next. He was a bonafide playmaker. You don't get your number retired without being a special player. His MVP year was DEFINITELY NOT a joke.

He had a couple good receiving weapons in Wycheck and Derrick Mason, but neither were superstars or TD major red zone threats. Mason was very very good for a long time, extremely underrated IMO. But the year TEN went to the Super Bowl, their leading receiver was Dyson with barely over 650 yds. Again, I always felt McNair played above the caliber of team that was around him,

This year McNair missed 5 games only had 2100 passing with 12 tds and 8 ints. He actually got outplayed (statistically speaking) by Neil O'Donnell 1300 10-5 in only half the games.

That said mofo was tough as nails. I actually remember a coworker of mine saying... "if I hear them call McNair a warrior one more time....."

I do remember that. McNair I fully agree isn't a HOF QB, but he had a very good career as one of the top dual threat QBs in that era.

I'm probably, well we're all probably getting a bit off topic, but the point is more that I still think Trey has a great chance to have a career with multiple pro bowls in his future. I believe in the kid a ton. It's just my opinion. Even if I didn't believe in him, I'd have to be willing to say either way, I haven't seen anything yet to say for sure he's gonna go one way or the other at this point.

I think Trey has the fixings for a very good qb in this league. I really do. Some think I hate him, which I don't, I just am very weary of thinking he can do anything until it's seen. For me personally, he doesn't have any tape in his life that makes me think he is "special".

and I think that's the biggest disconnect between someone like myself and NY. I don't want a "damn good" qb. I think we had that in Jimmy (maybe not as good as McNair but still damn good).

i want the next "Special" QB. I want a guy that when the top 5 guys in the league are talked about, he's in the Convo. Where teams desire to get someone of his caliber. Someone who will be in the HOF. A guy that plays at the level of Brees/Young/Montana/Manning/Rodgers etc.
those legitimate greats that are franchise QBs.

Can Lance get there? Idk. None of us do. I have no issue with some thinking he can/will. I genuinely hope he does if he ends up starting for us. I just feel like I have a lot more reasons to question if he can than to believe he can, at this point. I just want to see Lance in tough football situations that he hasn't been in before. Which isn't necessarily his fault but until I see those, I'm skeptical.

the big thing that I really like about Lance and Purdy, and I feel like this gets often overlooked by fans in general, is their character. I think both guys have the right mental makeup. I think Purdy is ahead right now in leadership because of his experience, but I also think Lance can get there once he plays more. It's hard to find any qb with the mental makeup they have, it's super cool that we have two.

Yeah I mean, I get what you're saying. I think the agitation with the phrasing is that "good" vs. "darn good" is very different from one person to the next, and even if you elaborate, you still have guys that kind of fall on the spectrum in between.

To me, it's like there's two categories really:

1) Unquestioned Generational Elite/HOF worthy guys - Mahomes/Rodgers/Young/Montana/Brees/Elway/Brady, etc. (but of course some of these guys weren't immediately great)

2) Everybody else on the spectrum between "good" (meaning above average) to "darn good" (IMO, guys who were special talents with elite traits).

And yeah, you have a ton of guys that fall under category #2. From Jimmy G to Alex Smith, to Dak, to Kirk Cousins, to Air McNair or Donovan McNabb in the past (another comparison I've seen for Trey). These guys all have won and some even made it to the super Bowl, but none of the guys listed won one.

You want a guy who can consistently gives you the ability to get there and win it. I get that. We all want that. I definitely don't think we've seen enough of Trey to know what he's gonna be. For that matter, we might not have seen enough to know what Brock's going to be, but it's reeeeeally hard to bet against him based on what he put out right away.

I'd sure love it if we had both the next Brees and the next Mahomes on this squad. All we can do now is speculate.. Ughhh.. Come on Pre-season.. Just get here so we can see these guys play.

I agree with what you're saying. I think most of us end up debating on something that we actually agree on, it's just we have different definitions for some of the words.

but yeah, I want the tier one guy and nothing less. If we don't have that, you keep looking and trying to get one. We never really saw Rodgers play young but I remember his first start before Favre retired and I thought it was clear he was a stud. I don't remember watching Bree's his first season or two.

so if Brock/Lance end up falling in that tier 2 catagory - I want us to keep looking. I'm not saying McNair/Mcnabb etc weren't very good, they were, just not the caliber I want in a qb. I want the Montana/Young caliber like we used to have.

I don't want a program where we HAVE to have a super stacked team to compete for a Super Bowl every year. I want someone who is so good that they elevate everyone around them and can make up for weaknesses on the roster - like Brady/brees/Manning/Rodgers etc did. Because that's when you have a real chance to compete for a chip 10-15 years straight.

there is a reason why a lot of the guys you mentioned really only had 3-5 years of competing for a super bowl. because eventually the roster depleted and they're not good enough to carry everything.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Lol I never said you did.

so who would you start? Assuming all three are healthy?

I said if healthy Brock is the starter like 50 times. Not sure how many more times I need to say it.

But you don't want him to be the starter, right?

I would like to find out if Lance can be the guy we drafted him to be. As of right now he's gotta show he's capable of going out there and it starts with being healthy and stacking days during the off season.

I never said I didn't want him to be the starter. I said I have my doubts about maintain his pervious play or him being an elite QB in the long-term. He also needs to figure out how to stay healthy.

When do these OTAs end? Heard he's going back to Dallas to work with Christianson again which is great to hear

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Lol I never said you did.

so who would you start? Assuming all three are healthy?

I said if healthy Brock is the starter like 50 times. Not sure how many more times I need to say it.

But you don't want him to be the starter, right?

How many more loaded questions we got lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
guap, I say let's wait til the games are played to say Sam is a TO machine.. maybe he was for NYJ but that's not our problem

He's been a TO machine since college. His 2yrs in NC he's got 16 passing TDs and 16 INTs.

I am willing to say we can wait till the games are played however let's hope he never gets that chance because that means Lance will have taken over or Purdy is just kicking some ass.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Come on NY, why do you deny things that are clearly true? I feel the same way, one of the big problems with Trey is that because no one has seen enough of him he's a huge ? because of that people are just falling back to their original opinions on him. Ours along with many others such as 4ML believed (and still do) that he could be a superstar.

We're hoping that he gets the chance to show it, we all agree that Brock deserves to start based on his play, but we're still dreaming about Trey becoming our Josh Allen.

The reality is that the likely scenario is that Brock is healthy and starts week 1 and Trey waits in the wings.

I just don't understand why people need to dance around their opinions on the matter.

The inverse is also true, some, like Krizay, thought Trey would bust, and was a terrible draft pick. They aren't interested in seeing Trey as they believe they have received their confirmation and don't want to see any more Purdy offees a way out for them and they believe our Franchise.

I'd still be very interested how the opinions woild change if it were Brock we traded up for and Trey who was the 7th round pick we expected nothing from. I don't think Kriz would change his opinion but I think many others would.

Deny what?

It would be interesting to see how opinions would change if Brock was 6-5 230lbs with a cannon, ran a 4.3 40 and won national championships at Georgia….only none of that is true and he was the last pick in the draft.

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Smokey:^^

Also Smokey: "It's a hell of a lot easier to simplify or misappropriate somebody else's argument than it is to address it substantively."

Basically

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Lol I never said you did.

so who would you start? Assuming all three are healthy?

I said if healthy Brock is the starter like 50 times. Not sure how many more times I need to say it.

But you don't want him to be the starter, right?

I would like to find out if Lance can be the guy we drafted him to be. As of right now he's gotta show he's capable of going out there and it starts with being healthy and stacking days during the off season.

I never said I didn't want him to be the starter. I said I have my doubts about maintain his pervious play or him being an elite QB in the long-term. He also needs to figure out how to stay healthy.

Lance, if he starts week one and to be safe let's just say he starts the first two or three games, he might look pretty bad because that Pittsburgh pass rush and defense is top-five. So I hope he gets a chance after the first week to show his stuff.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
guap, I say let's wait til the games are played to say Sam is a TO machine.. maybe he was for NYJ but that's not our problem

He's been a TO machine since college. His 2yrs in NC he's got 16 passing TDs and 16 INTs.

I am willing to say we can wait till the games are played however let's hope he never gets that chance because that means Lance will have taken over or Purdy is just kicking some ass.

Fair enough guap

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Come on NY, why do you deny things that are clearly true? I feel the same way, one of the big problems with Trey is that because no one has seen enough of him he's a huge ? because of that people are just falling back to their original opinions on him. Ours along with many others such as 4ML believed (and still do) that he could be a superstar.

We're hoping that he gets the chance to show it, we all agree that Brock deserves to start based on his play, but we're still dreaming about Trey becoming our Josh Allen.

The reality is that the likely scenario is that Brock is healthy and starts week 1 and Trey waits in the wings.

I just don't understand why people need to dance around their opinions on the matter.

The inverse is also true, some, like Krizay, thought Trey would bust, and was a terrible draft pick. They aren't interested in seeing Trey as they believe they have received their confirmation and don't want to see any more Purdy offees a way out for them and they believe our Franchise.

I'd still be very interested how the opinions woild change if it were Brock we traded up for and Trey who was the 7th round pick we expected nothing from. I don't think Kriz would change his opinion but I think many others would.

This isn't entirely true. I never thought he would bust. Not here anyway. Kyle and this offense was never going to allow that. I judged him on our team in our offense. To me he was never a fit for this offense. For the same exact reasons NY says SD isn't a fit for this offense. I by no means think he's a bust. I just don't think he has anything special about him and his weaknesses is my top criteria I look for in a QB. While also being some of the top things to run Kyle's offense especially as currently constructed.

As for the draft position swap if you will, my mind would change slightly for Trey. Because it wouldn't have been a stupid swing like I feel this was. Hell if we stayed at 13 or wherever and he and Mac was on the board and they chose him over Mac that wouldn't have stung as bad. Because it's literally just a lottery ticket. I could understand it better. Taking out a loan to the play the lottery is where I do think a lot of the Trey "hate" stems from.

As for the Brock portion of this imaginary swap. I wouldn't have wanted to trade up for him either. However if he played the way he played last year, that sting would have lessened by A LOT!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Come on NY, why do you deny things that are clearly true? I feel the same way, one of the big problems with Trey is that because no one has seen enough of him he's a huge ? because of that people are just falling back to their original opinions on him. Ours along with many others such as 4ML believed (and still do) that he could be a superstar.

We're hoping that he gets the chance to show it, we all agree that Brock deserves to start based on his play, but we're still dreaming about Trey becoming our Josh Allen.

The reality is that the likely scenario is that Brock is healthy and starts week 1 and Trey waits in the wings.

I just don't understand why people need to dance around their opinions on the matter.

The inverse is also true, some, like Krizay, thought Trey would bust, and was a terrible draft pick. They aren't interested in seeing Trey as they believe they have received their confirmation and don't want to see any more Purdy offees a way out for them and they believe our Franchise.

I'd still be very interested how the opinions woild change if it were Brock we traded up for and Trey who was the 7th round pick we expected nothing from. I don't think Kriz would change his opinion but I think many others would.

Deny what?

It would be interesting to see how opinions would change if Brock was 6-5 230lbs with a cannon, ran a 4.3 40 and won national championships at Georgia….only none of that is true and he was the last pick in the draft.

Deny that you want Trey to become the guy we thought we drafted and to overtake Brock at some point

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Lol I never said you did.

so who would you start? Assuming all three are healthy?

I said if healthy Brock is the starter like 50 times. Not sure how many more times I need to say it.

But you don't want him to be the starter, right?

How many more loaded questions we got lol.

😂 that was not a loaded question….was pretty straight forward. Only asking because the more time that goes along the more it is clear Purdy is not a QB you believe in, which I see you did conform today.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
guap, I say let's wait til the games are played to say Sam is a TO machine.. maybe he was for NYJ but that's not our problem

He's been a TO machine since college. His 2yrs in NC he's got 16 passing TDs and 16 INTs.

I am willing to say we can wait till the games are played however let's hope he never gets that chance because that means Lance will have taken over or Purdy is just kicking some ass.

Fair enough guap

My man As long as we're kicking the Seahawks dicks in the dirt on our way to a Super Bowl appearance it's gonna be a good season no matter who's at qb.

Also, whichever one we wind up trading this year or next year will get us some more draft capital and we already have a lot for next year to make big moves and big upgrades

Originally posted by elguapo:
Lance, if he starts week one and to be safe let's just say he starts the first two or three games, he might look pretty bad because that Pittsburgh pass rush and defense is top-five. So I hope he gets a chance after the first week to show his stuff.

Our team has been notoriously bad WK1 regardless of who's the QB. Kinda how Kyle rolls