Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Not sure who you're referring to, but Cohn absolutely deserves criticism for pushing his narrative on Kinlaw so hard to just make money. Jimmy deserve criticism for making more money than he earned. I don't believe Kinlaw, Ford, or even Hurd deserved the criticism they received, as injuries are not exactly under their control.

Oh, please. That is one of the stupidest things I've seen in here for awhile. And that's really saying something.

Leave Jimmy alone 😭

It's almost fun at this point.

It's not his fault the team chose to pay him what they did.

Like I said. Petty and pathetic. I rest my case

And you're more than welcome to, after helping me make mine. Thank you.

"Oh, here. Let me take one line out of an entire post that is completely out of context and then throw in some laughing emojis to pretend that I am making some kind of point. Boy oh boy, that will show him". Like I said. Petty and pathetic

This discussion started with you simply taking one line out of my post and doing the exact same thing. Then backing that one line up. So stop it man. You're getting nowhere.

Get your facts straight. I highlighted one line but included your entire post so anyone could see the point I was objecting to in the context of the entire screed. Like a lot of people in here you will take a line from a post, completely out of the context of what is said around it, and try and pretend that you are "exposing: some kind of hypocrisy or argument that supports whatever agenda you happen to be pushing, Then you'll throw in a couple of snarky emoji's so you can convince yourself that you have somehow "won" the day. Whatever. It's about the level of discourse I have come to expect from this place. In any case I'm done with this discussion for now.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Not sure who you're referring to, but Cohn absolutely deserves criticism for pushing his narrative on Kinlaw so hard to just make money. Jimmy deserve criticism for making more money than he earned. I don't believe Kinlaw, Ford, or even Hurd deserved the criticism they received, as injuries are not exactly under their control.

Oh, please. That is one of the stupidest things I've seen in here for awhile. And that's really saying something.

Leave Jimmy alone 😭

It's almost fun at this point.

It's not his fault the team chose to pay him what they did.

Like I said. Petty and pathetic. I rest my case

And you're more than welcome to, after helping me make mine. Thank you.

"Oh, here. Let me take one line out of an entire post that is completely out of context and then throw in some laughing emojis to pretend that I am making some kind of point. Boy oh boy, that will show him". Like I said. Petty and pathetic

This discussion started with you simply taking one line out of my post and doing the exact same thing. Then backing that one line up. So stop it man. You're getting nowhere.

Get your facts straight. I highlighted one line but included your entire post so anyone could see the point I was objecting to in the context of the entire screed. Like a lot of people in here you will take a line from a post, completely out of the context of what is said around it, and try and pretend that you are "exposing: some kind of hypocrisy or argument that supports whatever agenda you happen to be pushing, Then you'll throw in a couple of snarky emoji's so you can convince yourself that you have somehow "won" the day. Whatever. It's about the level of discourse I have come to expect from this place. In any case I'm done with this discussion for now.

Dude, you're just in here to argue. Go cry in the Jimmy thread.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Actually he might be *better* than Buckner.

Buck was actually healthy and productive though. Something kinlaw has struggled with so far. ( Health and production wise. )

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Actually he might be *better* than Buckner.

Buck was actually healthy and productive though. Something kinlaw has struggled with so far. ( Health and production wise. )

I kind of agree with NY85 in that Buckner - an excellent player - didn't quite fit the Kocurek DLine mould. I think that mould is more of a explosive squatty - able to anchor - kind of gap penetrator. An example would be DJ Jones. Buckner was a lighter and taller rangy dude. Still he was an all pro and a great leader and great player. Just cost too much. I think Kinlaw fits what Kocurek wants a bit better than Buckner, and he'll cost less for the next two years. I hope he stays healthy, and produces like Buckner did. We shall see.

I'll present my opinion, again, on the Buckner, Kinlaw, Armstead conundrum.
No more Grant Cohn, no need to talk more about that clown. Perhaps he should have his own thread where fans can dump their hate, but he is not worth time and effort.

We'll begin with Buckner vs Armstead. If you asked at the beginning of 2019 who was the better player, Buckner was the no brainer answer. But in 2022 that's not the case anymore. Buckner has had the better career overall. But Armstead has improved a lot since then. If you check Buckner and Armstead latest production, it's not that far apart. I can't say Buckner is much better than Armstead anymore, the gap is razor thin. They are not the same player, Buckner is better at some aspects and Armstead at others. I believe Buck is a better pass rusher, but Armstead a better run defender. Both are very good football players, perhaps Buck slightly better.

So coming the 2020 offseason there was a decision to make, keep Buckner or Armstead. Paying both would've been too much on the same position.

Scenario A is the fan favorite that didn't happen. Keep Buckner, pay him the deal Indy gave him. Let Armstead walk in FA and receive a day 3 comp pick, or use a tag & trade. Then end result is you kept Defo Buckner, and fans are happy.

Scenario B is what actually happened. Trade away Buck for a first round pick and extend Armstead. That first round pick was used to draft Javon Kinlaw who plays the same position. This was after a trade back, which capital was invested on another trade to pick Brandon Aiyuk. But lets leave Aiyuk out of the equation for now. The end result is Armstead, earning slightly less than Buck in Indy, and Kinlaw.

So it's Buckner standalone vs Armstead and Kinlaw.

The results will depend on Kinlaw productivity the rest of his rookie deal. But Kinlaw doesn't need to be an All Pro like Buckner for the trade to work out. If Kinlaw becomes a good player, perhaps not a Pro Bowler, it's going to be good. If he turns an straight bust, who keeps heading to IR, or becomes useless on the field (Solomon Thomas), then that's a failure on the Kinlaw project (considering there were other good prospects on that draft class).

Conclusion: It's not Buckner vs Kinlaw 1 vs 1. Kinlaw does not have to become Buckner for the pick to be successful. But if he does, would be amazing for the team.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by tommyncal:
For the life of me, I couldn't understand how Cohn could have 50K subscribers. But, after reading through this thread, It's becoming clear. His channel is like the ' National Inquirer' of years ago. Zero factual content but tons of 'sensationalism'. So, if that's the sh*t you like, do be it. But don't say he is a reporter or journalist, Watching his channel is like watching 'Jackass', laughable entertainment. I'll be disappointed if guests like Jason Aponte, Vish & Crock appear on his channel again.

Most of those followers are probably his haters. The only time I see his content is when someone posts it here complaining about how awful he his. Some of my friends do the same thing in our group chats.

This was before the Kinlaw incident but I cringe whenever I see the SI.com tag next to a 49er article title and will not read. His condescending style and tone is such a bore now. I wonder if he really bleeds red and gold in his heart.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Not sure who you're referring to, but Cohn absolutely deserves criticism for pushing his narrative on Kinlaw so hard to just make money. Jimmy deserve criticism for making more money than he earned. I don't believe Kinlaw, Ford, or even Hurd deserved the criticism they received, as injuries are not exactly under their control.

Oh, please. That is one of the stupidest things I've seen in here for awhile. And that's really saying something.

Leave Jimmy alone 😭

That is pretty f**king stupid thing to say though.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
I'll present my opinion, again, on the Buckner, Kinlaw, Armstead conundrum.
No more Grant Cohn, no need to talk more about that clown. Perhaps he should have his own thread where fans can dump their hate, but he is not worth time and effort.

We'll begin with Buckner vs Armstead. If you asked at the beginning of 2019 who was the better player, Buckner was the no brainer answer. But in 2022 that's not the case anymore. Buckner has had the better career overall. But Armstead has improved a lot since then. If you check Buckner and Armstead latest production, it's not that far apart. I can't say Buckner is much better than Armstead anymore, the gap is razor thin. They are not the same player, Buckner is better at some aspects and Armstead at others. I believe Buck is a better pass rusher, but Armstead a better run defender. Both are very good football players, perhaps Buck slightly better.

So coming the 2020 offseason there was a decision to make, keep Buckner or Armstead. Paying both would've been too much on the same position.

Scenario A is the fan favorite that didn't happen. Keep Buckner, pay him the deal Indy gave him. Let Armstead walk in FA and receive a day 3 comp pick, or use a tag & trade. Then end result is you kept Defo Buckner, and fans are happy.

Scenario B is what actually happened. Trade away Buck for a first round pick and extend Armstead. That first round pick was used to draft Javon Kinlaw who plays the same position. This was after a trade back, which capital was invested on another trade to pick Brandon Aiyuk. But lets leave Aiyuk out of the equation for now. The end result is Armstead, earning slightly less than Buck in Indy, and Kinlaw.

So it's Buckner standalone vs Armstead and Kinlaw.

The results will depend on Kinlaw productivity the rest of his rookie deal. But Kinlaw doesn't need to be an All Pro like Buckner for the trade to work out. If Kinlaw becomes a good player, perhaps not a Pro Bowler, it's going to be good. If he turns an straight bust, who keeps heading to IR, or becomes useless on the field (Solomon Thomas), then that's a failure on the Kinlaw project (considering there were other good prospects on that draft class).

Conclusion: It's not Buckner vs Kinlaw 1 vs 1. Kinlaw does not have to become Buckner for the pick to be successful. But if he does, would be amazing for the team.

Well done Richter, well done. Yeah!

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
I'll present my opinion, again, on the Buckner, Kinlaw, Armstead conundrum.
No more Grant Cohn, no need to talk more about that clown. Perhaps he should have his own thread where fans can dump their hate, but he is not worth time and effort.

We'll begin with Buckner vs Armstead. If you asked at the beginning of 2019 who was the better player, Buckner was the no brainer answer. But in 2022 that's not the case anymore. Buckner has had the better career overall. But Armstead has improved a lot since then. If you check Buckner and Armstead latest production, it's not that far apart. I can't say Buckner is much better than Armstead anymore, the gap is razor thin. They are not the same player, Buckner is better at some aspects and Armstead at others. I believe Buck is a better pass rusher, but Armstead a better run defender. Both are very good football players, perhaps Buck slightly better.

So coming the 2020 offseason there was a decision to make, keep Buckner or Armstead. Paying both would've been too much on the same position.

Scenario A is the fan favorite that didn't happen. Keep Buckner, pay him the deal Indy gave him. Let Armstead walk in FA and receive a day 3 comp pick, or use a tag & trade. Then end result is you kept Defo Buckner, and fans are happy.

Scenario B is what actually happened. Trade away Buck for a first round pick and extend Armstead. That first round pick was used to draft Javon Kinlaw who plays the same position. This was after a trade back, which capital was invested on another trade to pick Brandon Aiyuk. But lets leave Aiyuk out of the equation for now. The end result is Armstead, earning slightly less than Buck in Indy, and Kinlaw.

So it's Buckner standalone vs Armstead and Kinlaw.

The results will depend on Kinlaw productivity the rest of his rookie deal. But Kinlaw doesn't need to be an All Pro like Buckner for the trade to work out. If Kinlaw becomes a good player, perhaps not a Pro Bowler, it's going to be good. If he turns an straight bust, who keeps heading to IR, or becomes useless on the field (Solomon Thomas), then that's a failure on the Kinlaw project (considering there were other good prospects on that draft class).

Conclusion: It's not Buckner vs Kinlaw 1 vs 1. Kinlaw does not have to become Buckner for the pick to be successful. But if he does, would be amazing for the team.

Well done Richter, well done. Yeah!

For the most part you hit on key points! You fail to include the repeated mistakes on their evaluations. He was red flagged for his injury, as was Foster (not trying to bring him up but his evaluation was also an emotional based decision). Where they separate (Buck and Armstead) is the leadership on and off the field (I understand they both serve the community and have been recognized) you can't tell me they have the same production off one season. Armstead broke his arm and had missed a lot of playing time. I'd rather have production on the field in Which Buckner has outlasted all those fools. They also went about it the wrong way with not even trying to work with Buckner on an offer as he stated in an interview. No matter what they will always be linked Buckner and Kinlaw because of how it played out. I agree that he doesn't have to be Buckner but he needs to perform and live up to the first round or be a bust.

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by eastie:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Not sure who you're referring to, but Cohn absolutely deserves criticism for pushing his narrative on Kinlaw so hard to just make money. Jimmy deserve criticism for making more money than he earned. I don't believe Kinlaw, Ford, or even Hurd deserved the criticism they received, as injuries are not exactly under their control.

Oh, please. That is one of the stupidest things I've seen in here for awhile. And that's really saying something.

The money he is set to make is one of the factors holding up a trade. No team in the league believes he is worth that much, and any trade partner would ask us to pay a portion of it. So go ahead and explain why that take is wrong, smarty pants.

Oh, okay brainiac, please share with us how you KNOW that "no team in the league believes he's worth that much". SMDH. I can't wait to hear your pretzel logic on this one.

Well, because no team is trading for him with that salary. It's really simple. Any teams with interest have said they would ask the Niners to pay part of that salary. Proof enough that they don't feel he's worth it. Now, how about you prove me wrong? Even the Niners, who owe him that money, are unwilling to pay it. So please, find me a team that says he is worth that money. His skill set put him somewhere between bottom of the league as a starting quarterback, or top of the league as a back up. Find me one of those players in that slot making the money that he is slated to make.

Blah, blah, blah. You don't have a single bit of proof for any of those claims, lol. No team is trading for him with that salary? So that's why a trade hasn't been completed? Got proof? Any teams with interest have said that the niners need to pick up a portion of his salary? Got proof? Niners unwilling to pay his salary? Got proof? LOL. Butkus... Here's a thought for you, maybe, just maybe, him being unable to throw the football atm is cause to delay any trade talk? Skill set at the bottom of the league? Dude you're really funny. Do you have a stand up routine you do on open mike nights?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Well done Richter, well done. Yeah!

https://tenor.com/view/see-you-at-the-party-richter-total-recall-arnie-arnold-arnold-schwarzenegger-gif-15731217



How the hell do you post a GIF?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Actually he might be *better* than Buckner.

Buck was actually healthy and productive though. Something kinlaw has struggled with so far. ( Health and production wise. )

I kind of agree with NY85 in that Buckner - an excellent player - didn't quite fit the Kocurek DLine mould. I think that mould is more of a explosive squatty - able to anchor - kind of gap penetrator. An example would be DJ Jones. Buckner was a lighter and taller rangy dude. Still he was an all pro and a great leader and great player. Just cost too much. I think Kinlaw fits what Kocurek wants a bit better than Buckner, and he'll cost less for the next two years. I hope he stays healthy, and produces like Buckner did. We shall see.

Sorry Giedi, completely disagree there. They're both taller than ideal, but I don't think Kocurek cares. Along as you attack your gap quickly it's all good, and Buck is, and will always be more explosive than Kinlaw.

Buck is a simple as the FO projecting our keepers and deciding that going for AA, over Buck allowed us to keep more pieces.

I guarantee that if you told them that in two years they'd have a QB on a rookie deal, they wouldn't have made the move.

That said AA has been darn near as good as Buck, so Kinlaw doesn't have to be as good as either of them for it to be a net plus.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Actually he might be *better* than Buckner.

Buck was actually healthy and productive though. Something kinlaw has struggled with so far. ( Health and production wise. )

I kind of agree with NY85 in that Buckner - an excellent player - didn't quite fit the Kocurek DLine mould. I think that mould is more of a explosive squatty - able to anchor - kind of gap penetrator. An example would be DJ Jones. Buckner was a lighter and taller rangy dude. Still he was an all pro and a great leader and great player. Just cost too much. I think Kinlaw fits what Kocurek wants a bit better than Buckner, and he'll cost less for the next two years. I hope he stays healthy, and produces like Buckner did. We shall see.

Sorry Giedi, completely disagree there. They're both taller than ideal, but I don't think Kocurek cares. Along as you attack your gap quickly it's all good, and Buck is, and will always be more explosive than Kinlaw.

Buck is a simple as the FO projecting our keepers and deciding that going for AA, over Buck allowed us to keep more pieces.

I guarantee that if you told them that in two years they'd have a QB on a rookie deal, they wouldn't have made the move.

That said AA has been darn near as good as Buck, so Kinlaw doesn't have to be as good as either of them for it to be a net plus.

I think for the most part we agree. Choosing AA over Buck allowed 49ers to keep more pieces than keeping Buck. I agree with that.

Also agree that Kocurek wants players to be able to explode into the gap, just like you said. So I agree with that.

Also agree that Kinlaw hasn't shown as much explosiveness versus Buckner yet. But I attribute that to being a raw rookie and lacking in technique, and being injured (from the Dallas game) such that he's been hampered a bit physically since then. Hopefully with his knee reconstructed and hopefully cured of the injury, he can really show some explosiveness this year. Hopefully Kinlaw developing a more polished pass rush technique and hopefully we get more production from him too.

What NY85 said was interesting was the Wide 9 alignment - the two DT's in the wide 9 have to take on double teams on the run. A guy that is more squatty, or built with a lower center of gravity (but not necessarily less weight) will be able to hold ground against the run better than a tall rangy (slimmer) kind of guy (Buckner). I never really liked the Wide 9 versus the run - but can understand why Kyle uses it. I think Kinlaw is a bit more of a squatty guy (considering his size and height) vs Buckner.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by ChillninDaBay:
Just as good as Buckner if he can stay healthy. Buckner has slightly more speed, JK is slightly more powerful.

Nah. He also doesn't have to be Buck.

OK, Warren Sapp then!

Nah…Sapp was like 3" shorter and 25lbs smaller. He was aaron Donald before Donald imo.

my comp for Kin coming out was Chris Jones. Both were massive humans that shouldn't be able to move the way they can (still not like Sapp). Both were very raw overall coming out of college. Jones has stayed healthy and become a stud. Hopefully Kin can make some strides this yr.

I hope that ACL surgery does the trick for Kinlaw.