Surprise! Surprise! Go-ahead Seattle TD was Illegal

Originally posted by Fanofthegame:

If you slow it down you will see initial contact was made with the linebacker while the center was still on the 32 (Line of scrimmage is the 33) The engage continues as the center pushes the linebacker further till the ball is released where the center is at the 31.

Yes the rulebook states:

Article 1 Legal and Illegal Acts. On a scrimmage play during which a legal forward pass is thrown, an
ineligible offensive player, including a T-formation quarterback, is not permitted to move more than one
yard beyond the line of scrimmage before the pass has been thrown.

but it also states which the NFL network didnt add in there video:

Item 1: Legally Downfield. An ineligible player is not illegally downfield if, after initiating contact with an
opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage during his initial charge:
(a) he moves more than one yard beyond the line while legally blocking or being blocked by an
opponent; or
(b) after breaking legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage,
he remains stationary until a forward pass is thrown; or
(c) after losing legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he
is forced behind the line of scrimmage by an opponent, at which time he is again subject to
normal blocking restrictions for an ineligible offensive player.

Contact was made close to the 1 yard mark if you freeze frame at point of engagement so per the league rules it was legal.

He was easily more than one yard upfield prior to engaging the LB.

Originally posted by Fanofthegame:
If you slow it down you will see initial contact was made with the linebacker while the center was still on the 32 (Line of scrimmage is the 33) The engage continues as the center pushes the linebacker further till the ball is released where the center is at the 31.

Yes the rulebook states:

Article 1 Legal and Illegal Acts. On a scrimmage play during which a legal forward pass is thrown, an
ineligible offensive player, including a T-formation quarterback, is not permitted to move more than one
yard beyond the line of scrimmage before the pass has been thrown.

but it also states which the NFL network didnt add in there video:

Item 1: Legally Downfield. An ineligible player is not illegally downfield if, after initiating contact with an
opponent within one yard of the line of scrimmage during his initial charge:
(a) he moves more than one yard beyond the line while legally blocking or being blocked by an
opponent; or
(b) after breaking legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage,
he remains stationary until a forward pass is thrown; or
(c) after losing legal contact with an opponent more than one yard beyond the line of scrimmage, he
is forced behind the line of scrimmage by an opponent, at which time he is again subject to
normal blocking restrictions for an ineligible offensive player.

Contact was made close to the 1 yard mark if you freeze frame at point of engagement so per the league rules it was legal.

I appreciate your breakdown of the rules, but disagree with your assessment of the play. The LOS was at the 33, and the Center's initial contact was past the 32 yard line. That's a penalty. The Center moving to the 2nd level indicates a run play, which is why the defense crashed down hard on the run-action and abandoned their coverage responsibility.

Originally posted by gold49digger:
Seattle wouldve whooped them regardless but wow that was a blatant penalty.

you never know. you just never know. That play gave them the lead. If they were held to zero or even to three points, things could have changed.

Look at us in the nfccg.. it looked like we were going to blow them out in the first 10 minutes, and then they got a few calls and a few plays went their way, and that was it.

Everything Seattle does is illegal.

ya, definitely illegal. what cha' gon' do doe? dude was 2 yards past the LOS.

Mike Pereira sided with the call on twitter.

And does anyone have any actual proof that Pete Carroll is responsible for attempting to "cheat" here ? Or was it maybe the OL's error and he alone who is responsible ? Or is it on Bevell and or Cable ? Or is this a case of "Seattle's TD may have been illegal so Pete Carroll is cheating because I hate Pete and Seahawks. Let me point my angry finger because so angry angry rah rah!"

I found this article:

http://smartfootball.com/offense/downfield-passes-as-the-pitch-phase-of-the-read-option-as-run-by-russell-wilson-gus-malzahn-and-many-many-others

As good as this concept is, its critics have a fair concern: Unlike some other packaged plays where the ball is thrown extremely quickly, it seems there's almost always an offensive lineman illegally downfield when the pitch phase is a downfield throw. Some of this is not understanding how the rules work, as in college linemen get three yards to be downfield and in the NFL they get a yard, so it's not illegal if a lineman is simply "past the line of scrimmage," but it's true that referees frequently miss these calls. And I've been told the referees have little interest in cracking down, either because of the limited number of things they can look at during a play or simply because the powers that be aren't complaining about more offense. And while I like these concepts, I would like to see the rules enforced as written; the plays work just fine even when linemen aren't six or seven yards yards downfield, and the more lax the referees are the more egregious will be the violations.

BTW guys, a lot of teams around the league were annoyed at us in 2011 for that linemen shift prior to snap just to draw the offsides/encroachment.....

This is one play Seattle did. If it becomes a habit and they keep succeeding with it, it merits review.

Originally posted by DavidWGibson:
I don't know... The linebacker came up to play the run and the center really wasn't "downfield." It is a grey area, though.

Really, the GB defense misplayed it and that linebacker block is kind of inconsequential. GB just got beat, plain and simple.

No, no grey area, I coached offensive line, for 6 years, that my friend is ineligible man down field, and a heart breaker when you are the coach. Nice job Eric Davis, and again poor work by Chris Collinsworth, But it happens, the reefs don't see everything, sometimes you get away with mistakes. Any time you have screens, or run/pass option plays, it is very hard to coach. Linemen like to engage on run plays.

TD and an easy win for them. Excellent designed play IMO

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Mike Pereira sided with the call on twitter.

And does anyone have any actual proof that Pete Carroll is responsible for attempting to "cheat" here ? Or was it maybe the OL's error and he alone who is responsible ? Or is it on Bevell and or Cable ? Or is this a case of "Seattle's TD may have been illegal so Pete Carroll is cheating because I hate Pete and Seahawks. Let me point my angry finger because so angry angry rah rah!"

Its just pretty annoying that Seattle always gets away with doing illegal s**t. Remember in 2011 when we used to do the quick jerk motions? Well the NFL quickly said 'no no" can't do that
But Seattle always seems to find a way to get around the rules and this one is a penalty that was already clearly in the rule book.

I can't prove this but it just seems every time Seattle plays at home there's always a call that gets missed in their favor. The roughing the kicker penalty against us in the NFCCG and now this on their very next home game. It s just getting old how the rule always bend in their favor.

Originally posted by Antix:

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Mike Pereira sided with the call on twitter.

And does anyone have any actual proof that Pete Carroll is responsible for attempting to "cheat" here ? Or was it maybe the OL's error and he alone who is responsible ? Or is it on Bevell and or Cable ? Or is this a case of "Seattle's TD may have been illegal so Pete Carroll is cheating because I hate Pete and Seahawks. Let me point my angry finger because so angry angry rah rah!"

Its just pretty annoying that Seattle always gets away with doing illegal s**t. Remember in 2011 when we used to do the quick jerk motions? Well the NFL quickly said 'no no" can't do that
But Seattle always seems to find a way to get around the rules and this one is a penalty that was already clearly in the rule book.

I can't prove this but it just seems every time Seattle plays at home there's always a call that gets missed in their favor. The roughing the kicker penalty against us in the NFCCG and now this on their very next home game. It s just getting old how the rule always bend in their favor.

umm, the roughing the kicker, the bowman strip, and of course the DB holdings.. In the NFCCG there wasn't just one missed call, there were MANY.

Originally posted by Antix:
Its just pretty annoying that Seattle always gets away with doing illegal s**t. Remember in 2011 when we used to do the quick jerk motions? Well the NFL quickly said 'no no" can't do that
But Seattle always seems to find a way to get around the rules and this one is a penalty that was already clearly in the rule book.

I can't prove this but it just seems every time Seattle plays at home there's always a call that gets missed in their favor. The roughing the kicker penalty against us in the NFCCG and now this on their very next home game. It s just getting old how the rule always bend in their favor.

IMO something just happens with the refs and that amphitheater noise maybe on a subconscious level. Just like when fans and pundits watch the football game with the sound on and have to listen to Collinsworth's gagging reflex. They are going to be influenced by the constant barrage of noise and its gonna effect their opinion. Turning the sound off gives a better chance to objectively evaluate a team, unfortunately for the refs they cant mute the crowd.

Still would have won. Who's to say they wouldn't have scored on a 2nd and 15

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Antix:

Its just pretty annoying that Seattle always gets away with doing illegal s**t. Remember in 2011 when we used to do the quick jerk motions? Well the NFL quickly said 'no no" can't do that
But Seattle always seems to find a way to get around the rules and this one is a penalty that was already clearly in the rule book.

I can't prove this but it just seems every time Seattle plays at home there's always a call that gets missed in their favor. The roughing the kicker penalty against us in the NFCCG and now this on their very next home game. It s just getting old how the rule always bend in their favor.

IMO something just happens with the refs and that amphitheater noise maybe on a subconscious level. Just like when fans and pundits watch the football game with the sound on and have to listen to Collinsworth's gagging reflex. They are going to be influenced by the constant barrage of noise and its gonna effect their opinion. Turning the sound off gives a better chance to objectively evaluate a team, unfortunately for the refs they cant mute the crowd.

I've actually thought of that too. Maybe somehow the crowd is affecting refs judgement. But that pisses me off even more because not only do they get home field advantage with the crowd the get home refs advantage. Its just gonna be the way it is for the foreseeable future I guess.