Would you want a President of Football Operations to hire a HC instead of Jed?

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Yes. I do not understand how anyone has anything more than an ambivalent view towards Jed. I like that he seems to give a s**t about the team, but I don't like him being so involved and vocal. I don't think he knows what he's doing.

In what way do you think he is involved and vocal? I don't think he has much input in personnel decisions at all. And if anything, he's anti-vocal.

Hiring a Homlgren/Parcells football Czar is overrated. It's not like the Browns and Dolphins are suddenly heading for the Superbowl.

-9fA

Now that I think about it, I think a lot of my opinion of Jed is based on some assumptions, which isn't fair, I guess, but, still, i really, really didn't like his "guarantee" and I have the suspicion that he is overly involved with some of singletary's decisions. In any event, I think he needs someone with real football experience to organize things. It's not a cure-all, sure, but we have very little experience, from ownership down to head coach (not to mention the fact that we don't have a true GM), and I think we need it.

I think that Jed COULD be a very good owner, and he is much better than his dad. but i still don't understand why he has "support" on the 'zone.

Fair enough, and I guess I operate under a set of assumptions in making my view point as well.

I actually think that Baalke is as close to a GM as we're going to have. Yes, we have very little experience at Owner and HC. We have no other option but to wait for Jed to acquire experience. And yes, the lack of experience at HC is why I hope we hire an established HC the next time around.

I do think Baalke we need someone to complement Baalke, and I think an established HC would be able to do just that. But it's the Czar hire that I feel is unnecessary.

-9fA

[ Edited by 9erfanAUS on Oct 17, 2010 at 15:23:40 ]

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Yes. I do not understand how anyone has anything more than an ambivalent view towards Jed. I like that he seems to give a s**t about the team, but I don't like him being so involved and vocal. I don't think he knows what he's doing.

In what way do you think he is involved and vocal? I don't think he has much input in personnel decisions at all. And if anything, he's anti-vocal.

Hiring a Homlgren/Parcells football Czar is overrated. It's not like the Browns and Dolphins are suddenly heading for the Superbowl.

-9fA

Now that I think about it, I think a lot of my opinion of Jed is based on some assumptions, which isn't fair, I guess, but, still, i really, really didn't like his "guarantee" and I have the suspicion that he is overly involved with some of singletary's decisions. In any event, I think he needs someone with real football experience to organize things. It's not a cure-all, sure, but we have very little experience, from ownership down to head coach (not to mention the fact that we don't have a true GM), and I think we need it.

I think that Jed COULD be a very good owner, and he is much better than his dad. but i still don't understand why he has "support" on the 'zone.

Fair enough, and I guess I operate under a set of assumptions in making my view point as well.

I actually think that Baalke is as close to a GM as we're going to have. Yes, we have very little experience at Owner and HC. We have no other option but to wait for Jed to acquire experience. And yes, the lack of experience at HC is why I hope we hire an established HC the next time around.

I do think Baalke we need someone to complement Baalke, and I think an established HC would be able to do just that. But it's the Czar hire that I feel is unnecessary.

-9fA

I actually agree 100%. I would be fine with Baalke being the GM, and I think we NEED an experienced HC, and that would solve a lot of our problems. Jed just makes me nervous for some reason, and we might have to take lumps with him--but I would really welcome a football-czar move because it would show a little humility/awareness by Jed that the organization needs more experience in order to be successful.

I really believe Davis and Iupati were Singletary's picks. I do trust Niners scouts but Im not so sure Baalke can set up the board right particularly when an experienced coach like Gruden is hired.

Of course, the issue might lie b/w Singletary and McCloughan though.

[ Edited by DominantQE on Oct 18, 2010 at 18:34:07 ]

Fall of the Niners goes like this.

1. Eddie busted
2. Eddie gives team to sis who knows nothing about football.
3. Sis gives control to husband who knows less than her.
4. Jed who know the least out of all the Yorks takes control.

Gruden is off the table. Damon Bruce says that it is a done deal he is going to Cleveland this off season.

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Kalen49ers:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Yes. I do not understand how anyone has anything more than an ambivalent view towards Jed. I like that he seems to give a s**t about the team, but I don't like him being so involved and vocal. I don't think he knows what he's doing.

In what way do you think he is involved and vocal? I don't think he has much input in personnel decisions at all. And if anything, he's anti-vocal.

Hiring a Homlgren/Parcells football Czar is overrated. It's not like the Browns and Dolphins are suddenly heading for the Superbowl.

-9fA

Way too early to tell for the Browns, and last I checked, Parcells turned a 1-15 team, immediately into an 11-5 team and they have been a solid/good team since. Doesn't help that they have the Pats and Jets in their division. If the Dolphins were in the NFC West? Forget about it!

Whoah, I knew I had an unpopular opinion.

If it's way too early on the Browns, why exactly are people already giving Holmgren the benefit of the doubt? Is he good till he's been proven bad? In as much, Holmgren in his prior stint as GM-HC was stripped of his GM duties.

I credit Parcells for turning around the Dolphins in the year that they went from 1-15 to 11-5. That's a great turnaround. While sure the Dolphins play in a tough division, but it's not as if they've won themselves a wildcard into the playoffs either. Again, I don't think one season is enough to show that he's good.

-9fA

Look at Parcells track record with teams. Wherever he goes his teams are always competing for playoffs.

With the Browns and Holmgren it is too early, he is 7 games into his tenure there and that team is made up with a bunch of nobodies. 2-5 in the tough AFC North, having your top 2 QB's get injured, and then you beat the SB champs on the road? Not too shabby. Once they get another solid draft and maybe add a Free Agent or two they will be in solid shape. Unfortunately for them they gotta compete with the Steelers and Ravens. Their division is light years ahead of ours.

Also it's looking like they will be getting Jon Gruden for next season. I would say they have a pretty bright future ahead of themselves.

If I were the Yorks I would be on the phone to Parcells right now and basically say "You will have full control over hiring coaches and drafts and free agents here in San Francisco, now, name your price Mr. Parcells and we would be happy to pay you"

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Fall of the Niners goes like this.

1. Eddie busted
2. Eddie gives team to sis who knows nothing about football.
3. Sis gives control to husband who knows less than her.
4. Jed who know the least out of all the Yorks takes control.

Tom Heckert is my choice . . . and do it now!

Originally posted by global_nomad:
I would love for Jed to get his head out of his ass and hire a Parcells/Holmgrin type that could do a great job of hiring people they know will be successful. They could hire a GM and HC that would go along with their philosophy. That would be awesome if we could steal Mooch as the Pres of Football Ops then maybe he could make Mornhinweg as our HC, and they could get a good GM and we would all be reunited and it would feel so good.

It doesn't have to be the example I gave, it would be nice if all three positions were filled by people on the Bill Walsh tree.

Anyways why everyone is worried about a new HC, I think you need to aim hire, and we need to start with a new GM , experience in all positions, and the top down model, because the bottom up model hasn't worked well the last 6-8 years.

This is absolutely, positively what needs to be done. Will it happen under the ownership? Unlikely, for several reasons.

First, there aren't many guys with such talent out there. Certainly, we fans know far less about who they are than we do coaches. The ones who are out there, have choices. They want to work for a supportive, non-meddlesome owner, with ddep pockets. They expect to be paid well and to have real authority to affect change. Such a goy has the connections and respect of personel around the league, such that front office and coaching talent wiould follow this person to the Niners.

Count me among those who see Jed York as a green, rich kid on a power trip. He's not going to give up any power via delegation. And he has guys like Paraag Marathe blowing in his ear, telling Jed that he is "the man." It's hard to imagine someone like Marty Schottenheimer, who could get the course cirrected on this ship in one off-season, ever being compatible with Jed's self-image and self-importance. Jed's role model is Jerry Jones, with his world-class stadium.

I wish that I could be more optimistic. I want to be more optimistic. But it just isn't happening. The product being sold by this company is garbage. And the employee of this company (players) must be ashamed and embarassed by their company brand. Just as in every other business, such a company will soon see its employee talent (players) polishing resumes, asking agents to get them out, and jumping ship. It's so sad. And it's alltracable to arrogance in management, both Jed York and Mike Singletary.

For now, this club is out of sight and out of mind. Irrelevance is the fan's most effective tool for change.

Instead of looking at the Holmgren/Parcells model, we should instead focus on the front office makeups of the Colts, Pats, Steelers, and Ravens. Hell, just look at what the Chiefs have been able to do once they put Scott Pioli in charge there. Or the Falcons with Tom Dimitroff.

We need someone, regardless of title, to run the show from the top and establish the culture and ideology of the team. Jed York must bring respected, knowledgeable, and successful football guys around him to at the very least be a sounding board for his decision-making process.

Pres: Brian Billick
GM: Jack Del Rio (hired by Billick in BALT in 1999)
HC: Bill Musgrave (hired by Del Rio in JAC in 03-04)



or

Pres: Norv Turner
GM: _________
HC: Jason Garrett (played under Turner for 2 Super Bowls)

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
Yes. I do not understand how anyone has anything more than an ambivalent view towards Jed. I like that he seems to give a s**t about the team, but I don't like him being so involved and vocal. I don't think he knows what he's doing.

In what way do you think he is involved and vocal? I don't think he has much input in personnel decisions at all. And if anything, he's anti-vocal.

Hiring a Homlgren/Parcells football Czar is overrated. It's not like the Browns and Dolphins are suddenly heading for the Superbowl.

-9fA

Now that I think about it, I think a lot of my opinion of Jed is based on some assumptions, which isn't fair, I guess, but, still, i really, really didn't like his "guarantee" and I have the suspicion that he is overly involved with some of singletary's decisions. In any event, I think he needs someone with real football experience to organize things. It's not a cure-all, sure, but we have very little experience, from ownership down to head coach (not to mention the fact that we don't have a true GM), and I think we need it.

I think that Jed COULD be a very good owner, and he is much better than his dad. but i still don't understand why he has "support" on the 'zone.

Fair enough, and I guess I operate under a set of assumptions in making my view point as well.

I actually think that Baalke is as close to a GM as we're going to have. Yes, we have very little experience at Owner and HC. We have no other option but to wait for Jed to acquire experience. And yes, the lack of experience at HC is why I hope we hire an established HC the next time around.

I do think Baalke we need someone to complement Baalke, and I think an established HC would be able to do just that. But it's the Czar hire that I feel is unnecessary.

-9fA

yes. here is an analogy based on what parcells was once quoted as saying (the quote: if you want me to be the chef and make you dinner, yiu have to let me buy th groceries.)

if you have an urge to open a restaurant but have no experince as either a chef or restaurant manager, yiu don't go out and hire a sous chef and waiters first. you hire a general manager and he should then hire a chef. from there, they should hire everything below. your the owner, so your only job is to write the checks. Jed might love the niners and want success, but he has no idea what he is doing. if he's smart, he will hire competent football people and let them build the team and the coaching staff.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Fall of the Niners goes like this.

1. Eddie busted
2. Eddie gives team to sis who knows nothing about football.
3. Sis gives control to husband who knows less than her.
4. Jed who know the least out of all the Yorks takes control.

It's so true... LOL.

How about Marty Schottenheimer? The man knows good coaches, has developed quality coaches, and has had winning teams pretty much everywhere he has been. Just because his teams consistently choked in the playoffs doesn't mean his HC hires will do the same or be adherents to "Marty-ball." Honestly, at this point making the playoffs as a no. 1 or no. 2 seed only to choke at home sounds pretty good right now compared to this. We are heading into our second decade of bad football. This is how the image of loser gets branded in the minds of people. The old "Aints, the Yucks (pre-Dungy), the Falcons (80s), and the Rams of the 90s come to mind.