Marcellus Wiley says NFL culture still has "no tolerance" for homosexuality

ITT:

lots of bro's who aren't comfortable with their sexuality

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by jreff22:

I don't think its THAT big of a issue. Ive known a good amount of gay guys and they joke but who gives a s**t I joke also. Best example a buddy of mine is a firefighter and they have 1 open gay guy at the fire house. They all joke and its cool he makes jokes, they make them back but they are all boys and would die for each other. Now if he grabbed someones dick it would be a different story but they are all adults and know which lines cannot be crossed.

Seriously. To be fair, in locker rooms and fire houses and frat houses and practically all entirely male-dominated spaces, the straight guys are smacking each other's butts and flicking each dicks and joking around about gay sex WAY MORE OFTEN than the occasional gay guy would.

WTF?

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by jreff22:

I don't think its THAT big of a issue. Ive known a good amount of gay guys and they joke but who gives a s**t I joke also. Best example a buddy of mine is a firefighter and they have 1 open gay guy at the fire house. They all joke and its cool he makes jokes, they make them back but they are all boys and would die for each other. Now if he grabbed someones dick it would be a different story but they are all adults and know which lines cannot be crossed.

Seriously. To be fair, in locker rooms and fire houses and frat houses and practically all entirely male-dominated spaces, the straight guys are smacking each other's butts and flicking each dicks and joking around about gay sex WAY MORE OFTEN than the occasional gay guy would.

WTF?

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by DynastyChile:

and we are not talking about uncomfortableness, we're talking about how it would just kinda suck going to work every day with a guy who is openly gay, and having to walk around with him in a shower. How do you not understand that?

I understand exactly what you're saying. You're saying you're not homophobic, but you'd prefer it if gay people didn't have jobs because it makes you uncomfortable to be around them. Your problem is there responsibility. I totally get it.

Originally posted by crzy:
If there can be an active, openly gay or bisexual rugby player who is accepted, then there will eventually be an active, openly gay accepted NFL player or an NBA player.

good point.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:


I doubt it. We've only talked about how it would divide a team if they did that. But if they were openly gay can you imagine the harrassment they'd get on the road by opposing fans and opposing players? It's just in their best interest not to flaunt their gayness preference. It's not even like all the other team's fans and players hate gay people, but you know they would harrass that guy just because they'd try to get in his head and want to win. In football you have people injuring eachother intentionally and holding and insulting eachother or doing roids or whatever, just so they can get an edge. You think they wouldn't use the their opponent's homosexuality as a way to get an advantage? Of course they would. They'd be close to ruining their life IMO. And it wouldn't be like how eventually the racism towards black athletes ended, because there wound up being so many of them. No matter what a bunch of gay guys arent ever going to enter the NFL, they'll always be a part of a very small minority.

This is very benevolent of you. Of course, none of this has anything to do with you being wildly uncomfortable around gay people, you're just looking out for their best interests, and would prefer a world in which you are the one who gets to make decisions for everyone else. I find that to be totally reasonable.

If you can't properly translate what people are saying why bother. On point one. He did not say he doesn't want gays to have jobs. Not even Fox News is that pathetic when it comes to spinning what people say. He said he doesn't want to shower with gays.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

LOL My point is I don't want to take a shower with a big buff gay guy even if I was in the NFL, I know people who have played who wouldn't want to, I don't think many gay people in the NFL(not that there are many to begin with!) would come out because it's more ammo that can be used against them on the field, I don't think their teammates want to know they're gay and worried about being checked out in the shower, etc.

I don't really care about gay people one way or the other, I certainly don't hate them, but I don't want to take a shower with one and it would cause a lot of distractions for their teammates. I don't know if that makes me a homophobe but whatever. You seem to want to get all self-righteous and shove into everyone's faces how we need to be accepting and that we hate them and it infers that you're better than everyone else because you feel like you're more accepting than everyone else and we're hateful bigot homophobes or something like that. To be honest I think that's rather pretentious of you but whatever. This argument is a waste of my time and I think a lot of people have the same stance I have, that they wouldn't want to be in a shower with a gay guy and it would cause some distractions for their team, but whatever. And instead of being willing to agree to disagree you're calling me a homophobe and implying you're better than everyone else because you love gay people. Whatever, I don't really care anymore.

Oh and one last thing. Why don't you find a gigantic big buff gay guy, offer to go play some soccer or football or something, then tell him to take a shower with you, and we'll see how that works out for you.

Try to keep it together. I never claimed that I'm better than you, and I certainly didn't claim that I'm better than "everyone else." If you read that into my post, it wasn't my intention. Sorry. I didn't call you a hateful bigot either. I called you homophobe.

I also don't want to shove anything in anyone's face. From what you've written, it seems that the problem here is that you consider any act by a gay person beyond remaining entirely in the closet to be an act of "shoving sexuality in people's face." As I'm sure you could guess, I find that laughably restrictive. Suppose a gay person acted exactly as a straight person, referring to his boyfriend or husband normally in situations in which his husband or boyfriend came up, much like a straight guy might mention his girlfriend or wife in a situation in which she might come up.

It seems that for you, this scenario in which a straight person is just talking normally as people do isn't a problem, but if a gay person is just talking normally as people do, they're "shoving their sexuality in your face." Do you see the double standard? If a straight friend mentions his wife or girlfriend when it's appropriate to the conversation do you get mad at him for shoving his sexuality in your face? If not, then why the double standard? For me, it's clear you have an issue with homosexuality despite how much you claim not to. It doesn't make you hateful or a bigot, but I'm commenting on how silly it is to insist that the rest of the world would be better off tip-toeing because you have an issue. I'm saying it's your problem, and your job to get over it or not. The fantasy world in which everyone kowtows to your hangups isn't very realistic, in my opinion.


Edit: sorry, fixed a couple typos. I'm sure there's a couple more.

No I don't have any issues and I've been around a few gay people before and sometimes it didn't bother me but it did annoy me when my cousin's gay uncle was talking about having fluffers at their gay swingers party they hold once a year at their house or whatever down in palm springs. So yeah I have seen examples of them acting flamboyant or whatever you call it, and more often than not really. I knew a kid that seemed pretty gay in HS but he was cool because he wasn't a dick about it or anything.

And just like dude said before this just because I don't want to take showers with gay people doesn't mean I don't want them to have jobs. I'm just not comfortable taking a shower with a huge gay guy. If he has his own shower then that's cool or whatever if I were hypothetically a football player. I'm not saying gay people can't play sports. But announcing it would be awkward for a lot of people on their team and fanbase and bring pressure on them, so that's not just MY personal hang up or anything, a lot of people would potentially be uncomfortable with it depending on the way it was handled and who the person is. Therefor, I have said it is highly unlikely to happen anytime soon. Then I said I don't want to take a shower with gay people when I play sports. Then you called me a homophobe and acted like you were better and I have some bulls**t issues. THis boils down to you and I disagree and you want to have the last word. If I don't reply then you keep saying I have issues and I'm a homophobe and some other bull and if I do then you say I care too much and I have issues, so either way you're just trying to put me in a no-win situation argument wise.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

LOL My point is I don't want to take a shower with a big buff gay guy even if I was in the NFL, I know people who have played who wouldn't want to, I don't think many gay people in the NFL(not that there are many to begin with!) would come out because it's more ammo that can be used against them on the field, I don't think their teammates want to know they're gay and worried about being checked out in the shower, etc.

I don't really care about gay people one way or the other, I certainly don't hate them, but I don't want to take a shower with one and it would cause a lot of distractions for their teammates. I don't know if that makes me a homophobe but whatever. You seem to want to get all self-righteous and shove into everyone's faces how we need to be accepting and that we hate them and it infers that you're better than everyone else because you feel like you're more accepting than everyone else and we're hateful bigot homophobes or something like that. To be honest I think that's rather pretentious of you but whatever. This argument is a waste of my time and I think a lot of people have the same stance I have, that they wouldn't want to be in a shower with a gay guy and it would cause some distractions for their team, but whatever. And instead of being willing to agree to disagree you're calling me a homophobe and implying you're better than everyone else because you love gay people. Whatever, I don't really care anymore.

Oh and one last thing. Why don't you find a gigantic big buff gay guy, offer to go play some soccer or football or something, then tell him to take a shower with you, and we'll see how that works out for you.

Try to keep it together. I never claimed that I'm better than you, and I certainly didn't claim that I'm better than "everyone else." If you read that into my post, it wasn't my intention. Sorry. I didn't call you a hateful bigot either. I called you homophobe.

I also don't want to shove anything in anyone's face. From what you've written, it seems that the problem here is that you consider any act by a gay person beyond remaining entirely in the closet to be an act of "shoving sexuality in people's face." As I'm sure you could guess, I find that laughably restrictive. Suppose a gay person acted exactly as a straight person, referring to his boyfriend or husband normally in situations in which his husband or boyfriend came up, much like a straight guy might mention his girlfriend or wife in a situation in which she might come up.

It seems that for you, this scenario in which a straight person is just talking normally as people do isn't a problem, but if a gay person is just talking normally as people do, they're "shoving their sexuality in your face." Do you see the double standard? If a straight friend mentions his wife or girlfriend when it's appropriate to the conversation do you get mad at him for shoving his sexuality in your face? If not, then why the double standard? For me, it's clear you have an issue with homosexuality despite how much you claim not to. It doesn't make you hateful or a bigot, but I'm commenting on how silly it is to insist that the rest of the world would be better off tip-toeing because you have an issue. I'm saying it's your problem, and your job to get over it or not. The fantasy world in which everyone kowtows to your hangups isn't very realistic, in my opinion.


Edit: sorry, fixed a couple typos. I'm sure there's a couple more.

No I don't have any issues and I've been around a few gay people before and sometimes it didn't bother me but it did annoy me when my cousin's gay uncle was talking about having fluffers at their gay swingers party they hold once a year at their house or whatever down in palm springs. So yeah I have seen examples of them acting flamboyant or whatever you call it, and more often than not really. I knew a kid that seemed pretty gay in HS but he was cool because he wasn't a dick about it or anything.

And just like dude said before this just because I don't want to take showers with gay people doesn't mean I don't want them to have jobs. I'm just not comfortable taking a shower with a huge gay guy. If he has his own shower then that's cool or whatever if I were hypothetically a football player. I'm not saying gay people can't play sports. But announcing it would be awkward for a lot of people on their team and fanbase and bring pressure on them, so that's not just MY personal hang up or anything, a lot of people would potentially be uncomfortable with it depending on the way it was handled and who the person is. Therefor, I have said it is highly unlikely to happen anytime soon. Then I said I don't want to take a shower with gay people when I play sports. Then you called me a homophobe and acted like you were better and I have some bulls**t issues. THis boils down to you and I disagree and you want to have the last word. If I don't reply then you keep saying I have issues and I'm a homophobe and some other bull and if I do then you say I care too much and I have issues, so either way you're just trying to put me in a no-win situation argument wise.

Let me ask you this Willis. Do you think at some point you should just deal with the fact that they might take a glance or two? Just like a hot babe just has to deal with the fact that some creep might be staring her down as well.

I get why people are uncomfortable with the situation (I'm in that boat as well), but at the same time does it not bother you that a gay couldn't come forward about his partner. If all this guy wanted to do was announce his love for someone why make it about yourself.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

LOL My point is I don't want to take a shower with a big buff gay guy even if I was in the NFL, I know people who have played who wouldn't want to, I don't think many gay people in the NFL(not that there are many to begin with!) would come out because it's more ammo that can be used against them on the field, I don't think their teammates want to know they're gay and worried about being checked out in the shower, etc.

I don't really care about gay people one way or the other, I certainly don't hate them, but I don't want to take a shower with one and it would cause a lot of distractions for their teammates. I don't know if that makes me a homophobe but whatever. You seem to want to get all self-righteous and shove into everyone's faces how we need to be accepting and that we hate them and it infers that you're better than everyone else because you feel like you're more accepting than everyone else and we're hateful bigot homophobes or something like that. To be honest I think that's rather pretentious of you but whatever. This argument is a waste of my time and I think a lot of people have the same stance I have, that they wouldn't want to be in a shower with a gay guy and it would cause some distractions for their team, but whatever. And instead of being willing to agree to disagree you're calling me a homophobe and implying you're better than everyone else because you love gay people. Whatever, I don't really care anymore.

Oh and one last thing. Why don't you find a gigantic big buff gay guy, offer to go play some soccer or football or something, then tell him to take a shower with you, and we'll see how that works out for you.

Try to keep it together. I never claimed that I'm better than you, and I certainly didn't claim that I'm better than "everyone else." If you read that into my post, it wasn't my intention. Sorry. I didn't call you a hateful bigot either. I called you homophobe.

I also don't want to shove anything in anyone's face. From what you've written, it seems that the problem here is that you consider any act by a gay person beyond remaining entirely in the closet to be an act of "shoving sexuality in people's face." As I'm sure you could guess, I find that laughably restrictive. Suppose a gay person acted exactly as a straight person, referring to his boyfriend or husband normally in situations in which his husband or boyfriend came up, much like a straight guy might mention his girlfriend or wife in a situation in which she might come up.

It seems that for you, this scenario in which a straight person is just talking normally as people do isn't a problem, but if a gay person is just talking normally as people do, they're "shoving their sexuality in your face." Do you see the double standard? If a straight friend mentions his wife or girlfriend when it's appropriate to the conversation do you get mad at him for shoving his sexuality in your face? If not, then why the double standard? For me, it's clear you have an issue with homosexuality despite how much you claim not to. It doesn't make you hateful or a bigot, but I'm commenting on how silly it is to insist that the rest of the world would be better off tip-toeing because you have an issue. I'm saying it's your problem, and your job to get over it or not. The fantasy world in which everyone kowtows to your hangups isn't very realistic, in my opinion.


Edit: sorry, fixed a couple typos. I'm sure there's a couple more.

No I don't have any issues and I've been around a few gay people before and sometimes it didn't bother me but it did annoy me when my cousin's gay uncle was talking about having fluffers at their gay swingers party they hold once a year at their house or whatever down in palm springs. So yeah I have seen examples of them acting flamboyant or whatever you call it, and more often than not really. I knew a kid that seemed pretty gay in HS but he was cool because he wasn't a dick about it or anything.

And just like dude said before this just because I don't want to take showers with gay people doesn't mean I don't want them to have jobs. I'm just not comfortable taking a shower with a huge gay guy. If he has his own shower then that's cool or whatever if I were hypothetically a football player. I'm not saying gay people can't play sports. But announcing it would be awkward for a lot of people on their team and fanbase and bring pressure on them, so that's not just MY personal hang up or anything, a lot of people would potentially be uncomfortable with it depending on the way it was handled and who the person is. Therefor, I have said it is highly unlikely to happen anytime soon. Then I said I don't want to take a shower with gay people when I play sports. Then you called me a homophobe and acted like you were better and I have some bulls**t issues. THis boils down to you and I disagree and you want to have the last word. If I don't reply then you keep saying I have issues and I'm a homophobe and some other bull and if I do then you say I care too much and I have issues, so either way you're just trying to put me in a no-win situation argument wise.

Let me ask you this Willis. Do you think at some point you should just deal with the fact that they might take a glance or two? Just like a hot babe just has to deal with the fact that some creep might be staring her down as well.

I get why people are uncomfortable with the situation (I'm in that boat as well), but at the same time does it not bother you that a gay couldn't come forward about his partner. If all this guy wanted to do was announce his love for someone why make it about yourself.

I wouldn't really care if all he wanted to do was announce his love for someone else but if he was making it about himself it'd piss me off. It's not even just me though, I know people that wouldn't be comfortable with being in a lockerroom with a gay guy pretty much no matter what who HAVE played football. Pretty sure 2 of my cousin's ex boyfriends who played HS football and I think one of them plays Junior college football now, and then my other cousin(her brother) told me when we were talking about what Marcellus Wiley said that he wouldn't be comfortable with that either.

The main thing also is though I think it'd be a distraction and it'd cause more problems for the guy then it would solve so I don't think it's likely to happen. Because it would open them up to more obstacles and football is already a difficult enough game as it is. So personally I don't think it'll happen for a really long time. And I wouldn't be comfortable sharing a lockerroom with a gay dude, I'd want them to have their own shower or to shower after everyone else or something. But I dunno I mean when I was in HS in PE there were a couple dudes in the class always acting gay and it did make me mad/bother me and I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of them did wind up actually being gay or bisexual.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
If you can't properly translate what people are saying why bother. On point one. He did not say he doesn't want gays to have jobs. Not even Fox News is that pathetic when it comes to spinning what people say. He said he doesn't want to shower with gays.

1. I was clearly being facetious.

2. He said "we're talking about how it would just kinda suck going to work every day with a guy who is openly gay, and having to walk around with him in a shower."

I was emphasizing the sentence before the comma, you, after the comma. Can we agree that he's complaining that if out gay people could play in the NFL without retribution it would suck for straight people who might have to be co-present in a forty person shower with them? I'm questioning who is being framed as a "problem" here and who is not. As I'm sure you can guess, my allegiances lie with the person who is being ostracized for something out of their control, as opposed to the person who would rather discriminate against them than deal with the fact that they exist. make sense?

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by jreff22:

I don't think its THAT big of a issue. Ive known a good amount of gay guys and they joke but who gives a s**t I joke also. Best example a buddy of mine is a firefighter and they have 1 open gay guy at the fire house. They all joke and its cool he makes jokes, they make them back but they are all boys and would die for each other. Now if he grabbed someones dick it would be a different story but they are all adults and know which lines cannot be crossed.

Seriously. To be fair, in locker rooms and fire houses and frat houses and practically all entirely male-dominated spaces, the straight guys are smacking each other's butts and flicking each dicks and joking around about gay sex WAY MORE OFTEN than the occasional gay guy would.

WTF?

Out of curiosity, have you lived in a frat house? Ever spent significant amount of time in a firehouse? Ever been on a football team? If you've played on a football team, have you ever had your ass patted more in your life?

I've lived in a frat house, spent significant time in a firehouse, and played football. If you think goofing around about sexuality isn't common in these places, you obviously haven't been in them before.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

No I don't have any issues and I've been around a few gay people before and sometimes it didn't bother me but it did annoy me when my cousin's gay uncle was talking about having fluffers at their gay swingers party they hold once a year at their house or whatever down in palm springs. So yeah I have seen examples of them acting flamboyant or whatever you call it, and more often than not really. I knew a kid that seemed pretty gay in HS but he was cool because he wasn't a dick about it or anything.

Thanks for your reply. I'd be willing to bet you spend a lot more time around gay people than you realize. What I mean by this is that the vast majority of gay people (just like the vast majority of straight people) don't talk about fluffers and don't go to swingers parties. There are gay people who don't swish, and who don't talk with a lisp, and who don't speak in a feminized way that you talk to every day.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

And just like dude said before this just because I don't want to take showers with
gay people doesn't mean I don't want them to have jobs. I'm just not comfortable taking a shower with a huge gay guy. If he has his own shower then that's cool or whatever if I were hypothetically a football player. I'm not saying gay people can't play sports. But announcing it would be awkward for a lot of people on their team and fanbase and bring pressure on them, so that's not just MY personal hang up or anything, a lot of people would potentially be uncomfortable with it depending on the way it was handled and who the person is. Therefor, I have said it is highly unlikely to happen anytime soon. Then I said I don't want to take a shower with gay people when I play sports. Then you called me a homophobe and acted like you were better and I have some bulls**t issues. THis boils down to you and I disagree and you want to have the last word. If I don't reply then you keep saying I have issues and I'm a homophobe and some other bull and if I do then you say I care too much and I have issues, so either way you're just trying to put me in a no-win situation argument wise.

This whole issue with showers sounds like the women reporters in the locker room debate in the 90s. I'm not saying that you seem kinda homophobic to "win" or to back you into a corner or anything. I'm certainly not calling you hateful or a bigot. I'm just saying that you seem to have a little bit of discomfort being around male homosexuality. I'm certainly not trying to single you out. Sorry if it came off that way. It's cool for us to disagree.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

No I don't have any issues and I've been around a few gay people before and sometimes it didn't bother me but it did annoy me when my cousin's gay uncle was talking about having fluffers at their gay swingers party they hold once a year at their house or whatever down in palm springs. So yeah I have seen examples of them acting flamboyant or whatever you call it, and more often than not really. I knew a kid that seemed pretty gay in HS but he was cool because he wasn't a dick about it or anything.

Thanks for your reply. I'd be willing to bet you spend a lot more time around gay people than you realize. What I mean by this is that the vast majority of gay people (just like the vast majority of straight people) don't talk about fluffers and don't go to swingers parties. There are gay people who don't swish, and who don't talk with a lisp, and who don't speak in a feminized way that you talk to every day.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

And just like dude said before this just because I don't want to take showers with
gay people doesn't mean I don't want them to have jobs. I'm just not comfortable taking a shower with a huge gay guy. If he has his own shower then that's cool or whatever if I were hypothetically a football player. I'm not saying gay people can't play sports. But announcing it would be awkward for a lot of people on their team and fanbase and bring pressure on them, so that's not just MY personal hang up or anything, a lot of people would potentially be uncomfortable with it depending on the way it was handled and who the person is. Therefor, I have said it is highly unlikely to happen anytime soon. Then I said I don't want to take a shower with gay people when I play sports. Then you called me a homophobe and acted like you were better and I have some bulls**t issues. THis boils down to you and I disagree and you want to have the last word. If I don't reply then you keep saying I have issues and I'm a homophobe and some other bull and if I do then you say I care too much and I have issues, so either way you're just trying to put me in a no-win situation argument wise.

This whole issue with showers sounds like the women reporters in the locker room debate in the 90s. I'm not saying that you seem kinda homophobic to "win" or to back you into a corner or anything. I'm certainly not calling you hateful or a bigot. I'm just saying that you seem to have a little bit of discomfort being around male homosexuality. I'm certainly not trying to single you out. Sorry if it came off that way. It's cool for us to disagree.

You're probably right that I spent more time around gay people than I realize but oh well. I mean those are the ones who don't bother me, as long as they're not being flamboyant and annoying and talking about fluffers at swinger parties and stuff then it's fine. It's whatever. I'll admit that I'm a little uncomfortable around some gay people, but that's mainly the people I was talking about. So I'm happy to agree to disagree on some of this stuff with you and call it a 1-1 draw or whatever.

Originally posted by MaliCali:
ITT:

lots of bro's who aren't comfortable with their sexuality

I agree with you.

Who would disappoint you the most "NFL players only "if you found out they were gay! for me it would either be Dick Butkus or Ronnie Lott. The next question is who has the Baksketballs to say something?

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
If you can't properly translate what people are saying why bother. On point one. He did not say he doesn't want gays to have jobs. Not even Fox News is that pathetic when it comes to spinning what people say. He said he doesn't want to shower with gays.

1. I was clearly being facetious.

2. He said "we're talking about how it would just kinda suck going to work every day with a guy who is openly gay, and having to walk around with him in a shower."

I was emphasizing the sentence before the comma, you, after the comma. Can we agree that he's complaining that if out gay people could play in the NFL without retribution it would suck for straight people who might have to be co-present in a forty person shower with them? I'm questioning who is being framed as a "problem" here and who is not. As I'm sure you can guess, my allegiances lie with the person who is being ostracized for something out of their control, as opposed to the person who would rather discriminate against them than deal with the fact that they exist. make sense?

Nowhere did he imply that gays shouldn't have jobs. It was ridiculous for you to counter with that. You weren't emphazing the sentence before the comma, you were doing a hackjob on words.

The rest of your post has been bounced around at least 20 times. Some people here aren't comfortable showering with people who could be attracted to them, but obviously you aren't. Kudos to you.

I get why someone is uncomfortable showering with a gay person, that scenario is uncomfortable, but at the same time if the difference is a couple of glances then it's grow up because the guy shouldn't have to repress his life. But I stand by the statement that it shouldn't happen to the Niners. F*ck that I'm not risking a season over this. Let some other team kill their locker room.

gay people dont watch or play football, its scientifically proven