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With the 11th overall pick..

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by BP13:
Originally posted by ChuckLeavy32:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
That's fair, but in 10 years that list is Dexter Lawrence and maybe Derrick Brown. Grant could possibly get there and that puts him in play.

I mean he could be Danny Shelton or Mazi Smith all the same.

unless they're true blue pass rushers, I'm not investing a premium pick at NT…especially in this scheme. You can find space eaters and run defenders later.

we need 3-techs that can penetrate and we need a couple of them in the worst way.

I love Grant but he def benefited from being next to Mason Graham. If the Niners find a way to get Graham it will be a gift from God.

Graham also benefited from being next to Grant. Works both ways.

Helps having good players around you regardless. For me I'm gonna go with the 3-tech who can shot gaps and blow up s**t vs the NT that can fill gaps and take on blockers..if we're going IDL early.

walter Nolen and Harmon fill that role.

I think the debate was you can't proclaim your cool with Grant because you fill like he can develop as a pass rusher (already a good run defender) but then say you're not good with someone like Williams.

IMO if you want a big NT that can stop the run go get a Cam Jackson like player on day 3.

I've already said I've cooled on Grant, was just backing up someone up by saying that in a trade down he's in play.

Mykel Williams being good Vs the run does not make him valuable. He's only valuable if he can rush the passer.

A NT who can stuff the run is valuable, pass rush puts you over the top. So I'm happy if you need some work at the secondary part of what makes you valuable.

I'd rather Harmon + Tyliek Williams or Alfred Collins.

But I haven't got much of an issue with Grant + TJ Sanders.
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Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
How many double teams did Grant take to free up Graham?

Let's say we draft Graham at 11 would Cam Jackson be just as effective at taking double teams to free up Graham?

If you were a DC why would you double Jackson and not Graham? There was a reason why college DC's were doubling Grant almost every snap.

Please show me all the one on ones that Graham had. It's all about where they lineup on the DL and what scheme is being implemented all the same.

why wouldn't a 340lb Jackson get double teamed? Literally that's all he did in Florida as a NT. I'm not even saying it needs to be Jackson. s**t I love Caldwell in that role and he's got more juice as a pass rusher imo.

This is a one gapping get up field defense. You NEED guys that explode off the DL and can put f**kers on their backs. You need guys that can "get skinny" that are twitched up and can penetrate. There's a reason why they don't draft 330lb NTs.
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
we all know they're gonna take Shamar Stewart. We should just accept it now

I went to bed dooming over the thought that the 49ers were drafting a guard at 11.

Shemar Stewart doesn't sound too bad this morning.

I know right lol. Zero chance they take a IOL at 11. I just can't see it.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
we all know they're gonna take Shamar Stewart. We should just accept it now

I went to bed dooming over the thought that the 49ers were drafting a guard at 11.

Shemar Stewart doesn't sound too bad this morning.

I know right lol. Zero chance they take a IOL at 11. I just can't see it.

I'd definitely take Zabel over Stewart
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I'd definitely take Zabel over Stewart

I've heard some Zabel buzz of late….but jeez not at 11!
  • BP13
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 7,231
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
How many double teams did Grant take to free up Graham?

Let's say we draft Graham at 11 would Cam Jackson be just as effective at taking double teams to free up Graham?

If you were a DC why would you double Jackson and not Graham? There was a reason why college DC's were doubling Grant almost every snap.

Please show me all the one on ones that Graham had. It's all about where they lineup on the DL and what scheme is being implemented all the same.

why wouldn't a 340lb Jackson get double teamed? Literally that's all he did in Florida as a NT. I'm not even saying it needs to be Jackson. s**t I love Caldwell in that role and he's got more juice as a pass rusher imo.

This is a one gapping get up field defense. You NEED guys that explode off the DL and can put f**kers on their backs. You need guys that can "get skinny" that are twitched up and can penetrate. There's a reason why they don't draft 330lb NTs.

Pretty much sums it up, good point. 49ers like the 3 technique, as much as I love Grant, I see the premier pick being an edge or penetrator.
also, For the record, I love Mason Graham, and hope he's a 49er.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I've already said I've cooled on Grant, was just backing up someone up by saying that in a trade down he's in play.

Mykel Williams being good Vs the run does not make him valuable. He's only valuable if he can rush the passer.

A NT who can stuff the run is valuable, pass rush puts you over the top. So I'm happy if you need some work at the secondary part of what makes you valuable.

I'd rather Harmon + Tyliek Williams or Alfred Collins.

But I haven't got much of an issue with Grant + TJ Sanders.

A NT that can stuff the run in this scheme is not valuable. Name me the last NT they drafted for that exact role? Who's offered them little as a pass rusher? We can't because that's not what they value. Right of wrong that's what it is.

If they draft Williams, it's because they see that a 20 yr old who was banged this season & was regarded as the #1 pick in the draft a yr ago..has the chops to put it all together as a pass rusher.

It's no different than you assuming Walker is gonna be some special pass rusher even though you have to really squint to see it all the same.

FWIW I'm not in love with Williams, I get it though he's gonna start day one in base and will get his opportunity to grow as a pass rusher.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Heroism:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
we all know they're gonna take Shamar Stewart. We should just accept it now

I went to bed dooming over the thought that the 49ers were drafting a guard at 11.

Shemar Stewart doesn't sound too bad this morning.

I know right lol. Zero chance they take a IOL at 11. I just can't see it.

I'd definitely take Zabel over Stewart

I'll take Wilson at center later over Zabel. You better be Zack Martin at OG if you're drafting him 11th overall…even then it's a bad use of your resources.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
How many double teams did Grant take to free up Graham?

Let's say we draft Graham at 11 would Cam Jackson be just as effective at taking double teams to free up Graham?

If you were a DC why would you double Jackson and not Graham? There was a reason why college DC's were doubling Grant almost every snap.

Please show me all the one on ones that Graham had. It's all about where they lineup on the DL and what scheme is being implemented all the same.

why wouldn't a 340lb Jackson get double teamed? Literally that's all he did in Florida as a NT. I'm not even saying it needs to be Jackson. s**t I love Caldwell in that role and he's got more juice as a pass rusher imo.

This is a one gapping get up field defense. You NEED guys that explode off the DL and can put f**kers on their backs. You need guys that can "get skinny" that are twitched up and can penetrate. There's a reason why they don't draft 330lb NTs.

Javon Kinlaw. 6'5, 320

You also need to be able to hold up vs the run. Penetrating means nothing if teams run combo blocks on those 295 pound DT's and run the ball right down our throats.

You're pigeon holing Grant. He's not just a NT just like Dexter Lawrence isn't a NT.

Cam Jackson wouldn't get doubled. Why would he when teams could choose to double that penetrating 3T? Can Jackson doesn't scare anyone. Neither does Jamaree Caldwell. They are dime a dozen DT's that can be found in the 5th round.

What AREN'T found in the 5th round are 6'4, 360 pound DT's's who run a sub 5- 40

We need DT's that can do BOTH. Thats why they drafted Kinlaw. He was perfect for this scheme. Pure raw power to hold up inside. Good get off to shoot gaps.

Being a one dimensional penetrator won't do anything for this D.
[ Edited by Sask49erFan on Apr 24, 2025 at 8:29 AM ]
DRAFT PROFILE: BIO

The evolution of Kenneth Grant from an unheralded three-star recruit to a dominant force along Michigan's defensive front mirrors his trademark bull rush – steady, powerful, and ultimately impossible to ignore. After arriving in Ann Arbor as a raw 360-pound prospect, Grant reshaped his body and refined his technique while maintaining the freakish athleticism that made Michigan's staff view him as "a gift from the football gods." The Merrillville, Indiana native's junior campaign showcased his full potential, as he racked up 32 tackles, 6.5 TFLs and 3 sacks while earning Second-team All-Big Ten honors.

Grant's journey to the top of draft boards accelerated during Michigan's 2023 national championship run, where he emerged as more than just a space-eating nose tackle. His viral moment came against Penn State, chasing down running back Kaytron Allen from behind – a play that perfectly encapsulated his rare blend of mass and mobility. He followed that up with a junior season that saw him set Michigan's all-time record for pass breakups by a defensive lineman while anchoring one of college football's most dominant defensive fronts.

Beyond the highlight reel plays, Grant's sustained impact shows in the details – the consistent push on passing downs, the disciplined gap control, and the surprising range to make plays outside the tackle box. His combination of test numbers (4.95 forty at 339 pounds) and game film has scouts revisiting their initial projections of him as merely a two-down run stuffer.

SCOUTING REPORT: STRENGTHS
  • Athletic freak - made Feldman's list at #46 in 2022, he wrote "At 6-4, 360, he ran a sub-5.0 40, Jim Harbaugh told The Athletic this month. Ben Herbert, the UM strength coach who has trained more than his share of Freaks, said Grant has "incredible traits" and "is likely to be a No. 1 (Freak)" down the line if he applies himself."
  • Impressive quick first step, putting immediate pressure on offensive linemen and quarterbacks
  • Natural leverage advantage with compact frame and powerful base - excels at resetting the line of scrimmage in one-on-one situations
  • Developed pass rush repertoire including swim, rip, club and spin moves - doesn't rely solely on bull rush despite power advantage
  • Quick processor who recognizes blocking schemes and adjusts - particularly effective reading and defeating down blocks
  • Active hands in passing lanes - school record holder for pass breakups by a defensive lineman shows awareness when rush stalls
  • Three years of high-level production against elite competition - proven performer in biggest games and moments
  • Special teams value as interior rusher on field goal block unit - blocked multiple kicks in high school showing natural timing

SCOUTING REPORT: SUMMARY

Grant's going to wreck shop in the right system. The film shows a defender who already dominates one-on-one blocks and has the raw tools to develop into a legitimate three-down force. What jumps off the screen is how he consistently wins the leverage battle against top competition – watch his work against Ohio State's interior line for evidence of his ceiling. The athleticism isn't just testing numbers; his pursuit angles and closing speed show up repeatedly in critical moments.

A 4-3 team running multiple fronts will maximize his skillset. Letting him shoot gaps on early downs while developing his pass rush would be the ideal development path. The flashes are there – his club-rip combination against Penn State was NFL-caliber, and his swim move is already polished enough to threaten guards. His ability to stack-and-shed while maintaining gap control will translate day one, but his pass rush upside separates him from typical nose tackles in this class.

The tape against Nebraska and USC really sealed it for me – this is a first-round talent who's barely scratched his ceiling. His combination of power at the point of attack and freakish closing speed creates mismatches against both power and zone blocking schemes. Watch his hand placement improve throughout the season; this is a player ascending at the right time who's shown he can dominate against NFL-caliber competition.
If we want a Dexter Lawrence type DT draft Kenneth Grant.
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
Javon Kinlaw. 6'5, 320

You also need to be able to hold up vs the run. Penetrating means nothing if teams run combo blocks on those 295 pound DT's and run the ball right down our throats.

You're pigeon holing Grant. He's not just a NT just like Dexter Lawrence isn't a NT.

Cam Jackson wouldn't get doubled. Why would he when teams could choose to double that penetrating 3T? Can Jackson doesn't scare anyone. Neither does Jamaree Caldwell. They are dime a dozen DT's that can be found in the 5th round.

What AREN'T found in the 5th round are 6'4, 360 pound DT's's who run a sub 5- 40

We need DT's that can do BOTH. Thats why they drafted Kinlaw. He was perfect for this scheme. Pure raw power to hold up inside. Good get off to shoot gaps.

Being a one dimensional penetrator won't do anything for this D.

Dexter Lawrence is one of the few NT that actually gets after the QB. That s**t isn't the norm. Hence why those straight up 330Lb+ 1-tech players don't go early in drafts.

being 6-5 and 320 isn't the same as being 6-3 330+

you act like Grant is the only DL that gets doubled lol. Again he's late of the LOS and overall stiff as a pass rusher. He's not gonna be a Lawrence type guy imo.

your RIGHT big NTs that eat up double teams ARE a dime a dozen. Thank you for proving my point. The special ones like Lawrence/Suh actually create havoc as a pass rusher on top of it…Grant has not done that.

Being a one gapping 3-tech in this scheme is exactly what this team has done since 2017. That's what they value with DTs. Acting like they magically changes is being naive with the everything.
And we're debating something that isn't gonna happen. Let's talk about situations and players they're actually gonna draft
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
If we want a Dexter Lawrence type DT draft Kenneth Grant.

if we want Eddie Goldman type of DT draft Kenneth Grant
Originally posted by Sask49erFan:
DRAFT PROFILE: BIO

The evolution of Kenneth Grant from an unheralded three-star recruit to a dominant force along Michigan's defensive front mirrors his trademark bull rush – steady, powerful, and ultimately impossible to ignore. After arriving in Ann Arbor as a raw 360-pound prospect, Grant reshaped his body and refined his technique while maintaining the freakish athleticism that made Michigan's staff view him as "a gift from the football gods." The Merrillville, Indiana native's junior campaign showcased his full potential, as he racked up 32 tackles, 6.5 TFLs and 3 sacks while earning Second-team All-Big Ten honors.

Grant's journey to the top of draft boards accelerated during Michigan's 2023 national championship run, where he emerged as more than just a space-eating nose tackle. His viral moment came against Penn State, chasing down running back Kaytron Allen from behind – a play that perfectly encapsulated his rare blend of mass and mobility. He followed that up with a junior season that saw him set Michigan's all-time record for pass breakups by a defensive lineman while anchoring one of college football's most dominant defensive fronts.

Beyond the highlight reel plays, Grant's sustained impact shows in the details – the consistent push on passing downs, the disciplined gap control, and the surprising range to make plays outside the tackle box. His combination of test numbers (4.95 forty at 339 pounds) and game film has scouts revisiting their initial projections of him as merely a two-down run stuffer.

SCOUTING REPORT: STRENGTHS
  • Athletic freak - made Feldman's list at #46 in 2022, he wrote "At 6-4, 360, he ran a sub-5.0 40, Jim Harbaugh told The Athletic this month. Ben Herbert, the UM strength coach who has trained more than his share of Freaks, said Grant has "incredible traits" and "is likely to be a No. 1 (Freak)" down the line if he applies himself."
  • Impressive quick first step, putting immediate pressure on offensive linemen and quarterbacks
  • Natural leverage advantage with compact frame and powerful base - excels at resetting the line of scrimmage in one-on-one situations
  • Developed pass rush repertoire including swim, rip, club and spin moves - doesn't rely solely on bull rush despite power advantage
  • Quick processor who recognizes blocking schemes and adjusts - particularly effective reading and defeating down blocks
  • Active hands in passing lanes - school record holder for pass breakups by a defensive lineman shows awareness when rush stalls
  • Three years of high-level production against elite competition - proven performer in biggest games and moments
  • Special teams value as interior rusher on field goal block unit - blocked multiple kicks in high school showing natural timing

SCOUTING REPORT: SUMMARY

Grant's going to wreck shop in the right system. The film shows a defender who already dominates one-on-one blocks and has the raw tools to develop into a legitimate three-down force. What jumps off the screen is how he consistently wins the leverage battle against top competition – watch his work against Ohio State's interior line for evidence of his ceiling. The athleticism isn't just testing numbers; his pursuit angles and closing speed show up repeatedly in critical moments.

A 4-3 team running multiple fronts will maximize his skillset. Letting him shoot gaps on early downs while developing his pass rush would be the ideal development path. The flashes are there – his club-rip combination against Penn State was NFL-caliber, and his swim move is already polished enough to threaten guards. His ability to stack-and-shed while maintaining gap control will translate day one, but his pass rush upside separates him from typical nose tackles in this class.

The tape against Nebraska and USC really sealed it for me – this is a first-round talent who's barely scratched his ceiling. His combination of power at the point of attack and freakish closing speed creates mismatches against both power and zone blocking schemes. Watch his hand placement improve throughout the season; this is a player ascending at the right time who's shown he can dominate against NFL-caliber competition.

NFL Comparison

Tedarrell Slaton

Overview: Grant is a broad-bodied nose tackle whose tape can run hot and cold depending on the game and the types of blocks he's facing. He struggles to anchor when hit with down blocks due to his narrow base and tall pads, but he uses his power and length to beat single blocks and split double teams when he finds the crease. He had some sack production in college, and we could see him improve in that area once he learns to create more rush space with his hands. Grant's game will finally come together in full when he's able to take his impressive physical attributes and impose his will on opponents.

Strengths
  • Built with a broad chest, thick lowers and long arms.
  • Capable of playing multiple spots in odd or even fronts.
  • Can absorb and split double teams when pad level is right.
  • Possesses club strength to knock blocker off balance.
  • Good strike and extend with arm-over release as a two-gapper.
  • Put together a solid performance in upset win over Ohio State.
  • Bangs around with heavy hands as an interior rusher.


Weaknesses
  • Too often lacks explosiveness for dominant early phase reps.
  • Plays with tightness in lowers and a narrow base.
  • Has a tougher time growing roots against angle blocks.
  • Limited range and short-area quickness as a tackler.
  • Poor first-step quickness to create advantages for his rush.
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