Why are the Niners so bad at draft in the 1st and 2nd Rounds and how can it change?

Originally posted by dlance:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by dlance:
They reach for a need instead of drafting the best player. Ricky Pearsall was a reach. We will never know, but they probably could have drafted him in the second round.

You have no idea about that.

There were like 4 WRs drafted in the next 6 picks after we took Ricky.

Chiefs told him they were going to take him at 32. CJ Stroud was upset we took him cuz he wanted him.

You didn't like the pick so to you he was going to be available 32 picks later with nothing behind that as proof.

When did I say I don't like Rick Pearsall? I think he was not the BPA at pick 31. I think they could have trade down, getting an extra pick and probably still draft Rick Pearsall at the top of the second round. You have no Proof he would not have been available 32 picks later. That is why I said "We will neve know". The draft is a gamble. I think Kyle like a player and he is afraid of missing out on him so he reaches and drafts the players early. Like Kinlaw, Tyrion Davis-Price, Jake Moody are all reaches. Your telling me Jake Moody was the BPA in the third round, in the top 100 picks? There was no Center or CB or DL, no Pass Rusher or TE that could have helped the team? I don't think Kyle has a feel for what the rest of the league like so he reaches in the draft. If he didn't draft Rick Pearsall at 31 he might have missed out on him is 100% possible.

We have a lot more proof that he wouldn't than he would.

I don't disagree we've had reaches but the whole "we could've traded down and gotten him later" thing is so played out.

Kinlaw wasn't a reach btw, the other guys you listed are 3rd round picks.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Eagles offensive line / defensive line

Lions offensive line / defensive line

49ers offensive line / defensive line

Which of those would you rather line up with? Be very straight and honest. I don't think it's at all a close call. Some teams have powerhouse offensive and defensive lines. Others don't have that. Now it doesn't completely matter how you do that. But you got to do that is the point. If you can get an Australian rules football player like Jordan Mialata do it. We should do it too. If you can land a 6'8" 370 lbs. bulldozer in the 7th round from Australia we should do that too. Think outside the box and be creative. They are always improving their lines. Always finding a way. You got to admire them for getting such a dominant force like that. If you can do that we should too.

So which of those lines do you want? Look at their starters and watch the games. Pretty obvious to me. I wouldn't want to line up with the 49ers lines. I can tell you that. Compared to the 2 others listed.

These are two different conversations. You can't claim someone has failed to address the trenches while ignoring the many moves the team made to improve or try to improve them.

Kyle totally revamped the OL since he took over.

Laken Tomlinson trade
Richburg big $ deal
Brought in several other FAs like Person, Brunskill, Garland, Brendel
Traded for Trent Williams - better than anyone Eagles have and that's saying a lot
Signed Alex Mack

Thats not even brining up the draft stuff.

On the DL we literally had lived off the strength of our DL until this past season. Had we received the same officiating the Eagles just got we win both SBs against the Chiefs.

Do I need to list all the moves the team made there too?

The biggest problem for the 49ers has been injuries.

Richburg was playing great before his career ending injury. Dee Ford was a terror with Bosa on the other side and then we didn't get much from him after 2019 cuz he couldn't get healthy.

Kinlaw, Drake Jackson couldn't stay on the field.

You can certainly put fault on the 49ers for bringing in guys with injury risks and I won't argue against that…but once again that's another conversation.

You made a claim the 49ers under Shanahan/Lynch don't care about the trenches and that's just not accurate at all.

Originally posted by bigpete50:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
They certainly reached for Lance. Which is what got us in this mess. At least a big part of it. We should have been using those picks to rebuild the TRENCHES for years. We wouldn't be in this position. But now we just have to redouble our efforts and build from here. We can turn it around. But they got to start picking lines on both sides. We have to get back to bully ball on both sides.

Yup! This year, I think we should hope and pray Mason Graham falls to 11. But assuming he doesn't, they should be fully prepared to trade back to the end of the first or top of the second to draft one of: Tyliek Williams, Kenneth Grant, Deone Walker, Walter Nolen types to fortify the DL while amassing additional picks.

But Niners need a plan instead of just reaching. Also don't polarize on one player! Somebody will always want that 11th pick. Niners need to be flexible.

Feels like you're making a lot of assumptions in this post.

If the 49ers don't want a player at 11 and you think anyone they take there would be a reach why would another team want to move up?

Also Walker is nowhere near those other guys you mentioned and we'll see what happens with the combine this week but when it's all said and done I bet you Walter Nolen will be a top 15 player…and I wouldn't have an issue with him being our pick at 11.

Sure we all do the mock draft simulator thing and nothing feels better as a fan following the draft than trading down a bunch of times to get 15+
picks and basically feeling like you filled every need/depth spot imaginable in one draft.

It's fun but not very realistic. EVERY year you have people lock in so much on where mocks have players that they're shocked when teams "reach" for some guys or some players drop.

I remember this time last year Green was available late 7th round in mock draft generators. I'd say he was a pretty good pick in the 2nd round.

All we should care about is whether the guys we drafted are good players.

Force a need and fall in love with a guy. Sometimes you gotta go with BPA. I was banging the table for Cooper DeJean but that didn't happen. Just get studs with good value for the pick.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
They certainly reached for Lance. Which is what got us in this mess. At least a big part of it. We should have been using those picks to rebuild the TRENCHES for years. We wouldn't be in this position. But now we just have to redouble our efforts and build from here. We can turn it around. But they got to start picking lines on both sides. We have to get back to bully ball on both sides.

In hindsight they absolutely did. There was a press conference just after the big trade up with the Dolphins and Kyle openly said, we don't know who we want yet but we need a QB and there are five guys. Lets put ourselves in a position to take one of those.
Problem with this is that they had not properly evaluated the field. Perhaps the answer is none of the above and you sit tight without squandering three 1st round picks.

One reason may be that the BPA's are passed on for a crush

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yeah man like most teams there's hits and misses. Sometimes you take a chance on those boom or bust guys, sometimes it's works sometimes it doesn't. Is what it is.

This last draft it felt like we went with guys that played a ton of football and were easier to evaluate. They nail this draft like that one and we're gonna be in a good spot.

I hope they stay with this formula and don't get cute. Personally, I'm not really a fan of swing for the fences on boom-or-bust traits in the first round because while sometimes you do get a Trent Williams, more often than not you get Javon Kinlaw or Trey Lance.

I think they still have enough elite players on the roster to compete for a SB. What they really lack are the young starters, role players, and depth. They need to keep hitting singles and doubles while filling out the roster and maybe one or two of those young guys will turn into homeruns. They must avoid strikeouts. Can't afford anymore whiffs(ie the entire 2023 class ).

Totally agree. There really wasn't a lot of "if" to these guys games until the Guerendo pick. I hope they continue this with future drafts. In regards to your homerun comment, we drafted at least one All-Pro in our first five drafts, which is pretty remarkable. I'm not expecting that kind of lightning in a bottle again but it would be nice.

Originally posted by Rice-a-Ronnie:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
They certainly reached for Lance. Which is what got us in this mess. At least a big part of it. We should have been using those picks to rebuild the TRENCHES for years. We wouldn't be in this position. But now we just have to redouble our efforts and build from here. We can turn it around. But they got to start picking lines on both sides. We have to get back to bully ball on both sides.

In hindsight they absolutely did. There was a press conference just after the big trade up with the Dolphins and Kyle openly said, we don't know who we want yet but we need a QB and there are five guys. Lets put ourselves in a position to take one of those.
Problem with this is that they had not properly evaluated the field. Perhaps the answer is none of the above and you sit tight without squandering three 1st round picks.

In hindsight the Lance move was awful in many ways but that's hindsight.

Really poor timing to try and go all in when you didn't even have a proper draft offseason cuz of covid and same time Lance was deprived of extra games that season to show what he can or cannot do.

But it's still 1 miss that cost a lot which hurts the overall result.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Rice-a-Ronnie:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
They certainly reached for Lance. Which is what got us in this mess. At least a big part of it. We should have been using those picks to rebuild the TRENCHES for years. We wouldn't be in this position. But now we just have to redouble our efforts and build from here. We can turn it around. But they got to start picking lines on both sides. We have to get back to bully ball on both sides.

In hindsight they absolutely did. There was a press conference just after the big trade up with the Dolphins and Kyle openly said, we don't know who we want yet but we need a QB and there are five guys. Lets put ourselves in a position to take one of those.
Problem with this is that they had not properly evaluated the field. Perhaps the answer is none of the above and you sit tight without squandering three 1st round picks.

In hindsight the Lance move was awful in many ways but that's hindsight.

Really poor timing to try and go all in when you didn't even have a proper draft offseason cuz of covid and same time Lance was deprived of extra games that season to show what he can or cannot do.

But it's still 1 miss that cost a lot which hurts the overall result.

Absolutely correct. That one trade affected 3 years worth of drafts. The Lance bust and then 2 years with no first and only one late 2nd rounder (#61 overall) It's east to look back on ith and see what a mistake it was but they were desperately trying to find replaement for the often injured JG. They actually did when they drafted Purdy the next year with the last pick.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Yeah absolutely. It's a bit different starting for our roster than starting for the Bears. Drake Jackson was a 2nd round pick that everyone knew was a high up side high bust potential pick. Kinlaw was a high upside high bust potential pick. Lance was a sky high potential high bust potential pick. Aiyuk was a great collegiate WR and they have a pretty damn good track record for performing in the pros. Aaron Banks has been solid much like McGlinchey even though I hated McGlinchey but there's other reasons for that hatred. Green has started off great and he was a player the scouting community loved. And Pearsall is to be determined but he's a WR probably gonna find a way to be productive.

Well maybe they should LEARN and stop doing that. LOL. High BUST potential and previous injury history aren't exactly great ways to go about the draft. Big boom and bust players rarely work out in the NFL. You don't want a "project." You want a PLAYER. A can't miss prospect. They need to draft completely differently. Just do the opposite of what they normally do and we will be on the right track.

Trent Williams was a boom or bust player.

Wasn't Trevor Lawrence a can't miss prospect? Chase Young? Every year almost every 1st round pick is considered can't miss, the whole draft is a lottery.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Absolutely correct. That one trade affected 3 years worth of drafts. The Lance bust and then 2 years with no first and only one late 2nd rounder (#61 overall) It's east to look back on ith and see what a mistake it was but they were desperately trying to find replaement for the often injured JG. They actually did when they drafted Purdy the next year with the last pick.

Yeah the pick also impacted some of the picks we kept and made on top of it.

I still think had we not drafted Lance we don't take Banks, Sermon or Danny Gray. I think all those picks were made with Lance's strengths in mind. Banks ended up giving us some quality starts(not last year) but overall will end up being a pick we aren't excited about.

Considering Creed Humphrey went a few picks later really stings.

Nico Collins being drafted right after the Sermon pick too

With Chris Foerster being promoted to Asst Head Coach of the offense, it makes me even more worried this year. He was an offensive line coach who said the Niners will always draft a person who scores TDs first over the guys who block for them. Then again, the Niners have Salah and Gus Bradley on the other side of the ledger on defense to advocate for the d line. The Niners are also coming off of a losing season so that will change the dynamic a little, too. Don't know how this draft and offseason will turn out with all these changes, but I will hope for the best.