Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama

Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:

I get the argument for a trade down. I'm all for a trade down. I don't get the argument for going someone besides Bosa/Williams @ pick 2.

There is no other player that has All Pro potential that doesn't require significant projection. Williams has dominated OL men that will go 1st and 2nd day in the draft. He's dominated in various ways that all work in the NFL (explosion off the snap into the gap, array of moves, and splitting double teams). While he's not guaranteed to be Aaron Donald, he is a better prospect than all of the top NFL DL in the game today were at his age and he wins very much the same way as Donald.

Ideal outcome: Bosa falls to 2

Second Most Ideal: We trade back with a qb needy team getting an extra 2 and 1. Take Polite/Burns/Allen.

Third Option: We take Williams if no one is offering much value for pick 2

Anything else and we are passing up a blue chip prospect and throwing value completely out the window.

Allen/Ferrel - have not demonstrated they can win in ways that translate to Pro Bowl pass rushers in the NFL so don't get me strarted on wasting the 2nd overall on them. I prefer Burns / Polite over both.

That's what scares me about everyone outside of Bosa and Quinnen because everyone else has question marks. If these 2 guys stay healthy, you at least know they'll be big time players in this league.

Lynch can't select another project in the top 3 because if you pass on Williams and the guy you selected is another Solomon Thomas, then good luck explaining that to your fan base as they call for your termination. Let us not forget that after Garrett, Jamal Adams was probably the next prospect who was the safest bet to reach his potential right out the gate.

Passing on near locks for an attractive gamble isn't smart when you have a very high pick. You can't afford to swing and miss when using a top 3 pick. Trade down or select Quinnen/Bosa. There really is no other choice.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

Exactly, and if he really isn't aware enough to realize that, then he might not be aware enough to realize he has BMI and stamina issues.

Dude went from 265 to over 300 pounds in two years because they wanted him bigger. Its not at all surprising to see a guy that young still figuring out his body. If you try to gain that much weight, that fast, its inevitable that some of it won't be good weight.

Even with those "stamina issues" he still routinely dominated some of the best teams that college football has to offer.

All I am saying is let's not make that everyone in the draft has things they need to work on to become elite and give this guy a pass for the stuff that he has to work on. Jonathan Allen dominated some of the best teams in college too in that same system and was considered an elite player in his draft as well, it doesn't mean I would want him over other team needs at 2.

Originally posted by Nastastical:

That's what scares me about everyone outside of Bosa and Quinnen because everyone else has question marks. If these 2 guys stay healthy, you at least know they'll be big time players in this league.

Lynch can't select another project in the top 3 because if you pass on Williams and the guy you selected is another Solomon Thomas, then good luck explaining that to your fan base as they call for your termination. Let us not forget that after Garrett, Jamal Adams was probably the next prospect who was the safest bet to reach his potential right out the gate.

Passing on near locks for an attractive gamble isn't smart when you have a very high pick. You can't afford to swing and miss when using a top 3 pick. Trade down or select Quinnen/Bosa. There really is no other choice.

I disagree, plenty of question marks with both, and you don't know they will be big time players. I agree that they do have lower bust potential that some of the other top 10 players but so did Solomon Thomas.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

All I am saying is let's not make that everyone in the draft has things they need to work on to become elite and give this guy a pass for the stuff that he has to work on. Jonathan Allen dominated some of the best teams in college too in that same system and was considered an elite player in his draft as well, it doesn't mean I would want him over other team needs at 2.

Even Bama fans will tell you that Allen wasn't at the same tier as Williams. Williams is the best DL that has come out of there in a decade.


No prospect is perfect but in this draft class, Bosa and Williams have consistently shown the most NFL translatable skills.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

I disagree, plenty of question marks with both, and you don't know they will be big time players. I agree that they do have lower bust potential that some of the other top 10 players but so did Solomon Thomas.

Except that just isn't true. Thomas was an upside guy. You hoped that his combination of skill and athleticism would fit in a different role at the NFL level but it was still uncertain.


He was never on a tier like Myles Garrett. He wouldn't be on a tier like Bosa and Williams either. He was a hard working, high upside guy. All the others have demonstrated that they can do the things that will be demanded of them at their respective positions in the NFL.


There is a reason why the vast majority of rankings have Bosa and Williams #1 and #2. Right now it is them---and then everyone else.


If Allen blows the roof off at the Senior Bowl then he might move into that tier but for right now, those are the two truly elite prospects of this draft class.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

All I am saying is let's not make that everyone in the draft has things they need to work on to become elite and give this guy a pass for the stuff that he has to work on. Jonathan Allen dominated some of the best teams in college too in that same system and was considered an elite player in his draft as well, it doesn't mean I would want him over other team needs at 2.

Even Bama fans will tell you that Allen wasn't at the same tier as Williams. Williams is the best DL that has come out of there in a decade.


No prospect is perfect but in this draft class, Bosa and Williams have consistently shown the most NFL translatable skills.

You mean consistently for one season?

I'm not saying he isn't good, and he probably will be a good pro. Just not good enough to auto draft regardless of whom else is available, regardless of positional value and regardless of team need.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

I disagree, plenty of question marks with both, and you don't know they will be big time players. I agree that they do have lower bust potential that some of the other top 10 players but so did Solomon Thomas.

Except that just isn't true. Thomas was an upside guy. You hoped that his combination of skill and athleticism would fit in a different role at the NFL level but it was still uncertain.


He was never on a tier like Myles Garrett. He wouldn't be on a tier like Bosa and Williams either. He was a hard working, high upside guy. All the others have demonstrated that they can do the things that will be demanded of them at their respective positions in the NFL.


There is a reason why the vast majority of rankings have Bosa and Williams #1 and #2. Right now it is them---and then everyone else.


If Allen blows the roof off at the Senior Bowl then he might move into that tier but for right now, those are the two truly elite prospects of this draft class.

I wasn't arguing that Solomon was worthy of the #3. I was stating that his bust potential was low, because of his translatable skills.

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Originally posted by flynhayn15:

You mean consistently for one season?

Consistently as in game in/game out showing the technique and skillset needed to thrive in the NFL. You don't have to try to extrapolate from brief flashes he showed a time or two.

I'm not saying he isn't good, and he probably will be a good pro. Just not good enough to auto draft regardless of whom else is available, regardless of positional value and regardless of team need.

Gotta agree to disagree there I think.

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

I wasn't arguing that Solomon was worthy of the #3. I was stating that his bust potential was low, because of his translatable skills.

Except there were questions about his translatable skills, exactly why he was a projection. Undersized for a 3T, potentially athletic enough to play the edge but that remained uncertain. There were questions about where he would best fit in the NFL that simply don't exist with Bosa and Williams.

Someone really said they're concerned Quinnen could suffer a heart attack after Saleh drops him in coverage. Smh.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Someone really said they're concerned Quinnen could suffer a heart attack after Saleh drops him in coverage. Smh.

Lol

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:
I wasn't arguing that Solomon was worthy of the #3. I was stating that his bust potential was low, because of his translatable skills.

Except there were questions about his translatable skills, exactly why he was a projection. Undersized for a 3T, potentially athletic enough to play the edge but that remained uncertain. There were questions about where he would best fit in the NFL that simply don't exist with Bosa and Williams.

I mean Williams you could say is a little undersized to play NT, no?

At this point, I'd have to be blown away by his combine numbers to take him.

Not overly in love with Allen either. Meh, I think I'm leaning trey downe

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

At this point, I'd have to be blown away by his combine numbers to take him.

Not overly in love with Allen either. Meh, I think I'm leaning trey downe

I'm liking Trey's distant cousin, Trey Dup, let's get Bosa.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:

I wasn't arguing that Solomon was worthy of the #3. I was stating that his bust potential was low, because of his translatable skills.

Except there were questions about his translatable skills, exactly why he was a projection. Undersized for a 3T, potentially athletic enough to play the edge but that remained uncertain. There were questions about where he would best fit in the NFL that simply don't exist with Bosa and Williams.

I mean Williams you could say is a little undersized to play NT, no?

I don't think so in our scheme, we value penetration over pluggers.