Nick Bosa, EDGE, Ohio St(The Politics Free Thread)

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

424 pages for a dude we will probably pass on for QW. Good Lord

They're gonna take Bosa if he's there...unless someone offers a godfather trade down package. All this other stuff is just for us fans debating who we would take.

Originally posted by Costanza:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:
424 pages for a dude we will probably pass on for QW. Good Lord

They're gonna take Bosa if he's there...unless someone offers a godfather trade down package. All this other stuff is just for us fans debating who we would take.

That's the whole point of draft discussions. Plenty of posts/pages on players we won't take considering we only have so many picks.

49ers SHOULD be able to get a pretty damn good player if we stay at #2.

Bosa, Williams, Allen or Burns. I think any of them make us a better team and would make me excited...though of course in order of their listing.

BUT Bosa to me is still the guy that makes too much sense. It's unfortunate how things go. Granted if we change one thing we may not be in this position today but it does hurt thinking that potentially 1 2 point conversion in 2016 cost us the opportunity to have a DL of...

Myles Garrett, DeForest Buckner, Quinnen Williams, Dee Ford

But I do have the hope that Solomon Thomas takes a step forward this year if we put him where he really should be playing which is inside. Bosa may not be as good as Garrett and Thomas isn't as good as Williams but Bosa, Buckner, Thomas, Ford can be pretty great as well.

Is it hypocritical of me to think that we should look at Bosa over Williams due to having Thomas on board? Maybe but I don't care.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Costanza:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

424 pages for a dude we will probably pass on for QW. Good Lord

They're gonna take Bosa if he's there...unless someone offers a godfather trade down package. All this other stuff is just for us fans debating who we would take.

That's the whole point of draft discussions. Plenty of posts/pages on players we won't take considering we only have so many picks.

49ers SHOULD be able to get a pretty damn good player if we stay at #2.

Bosa, Williams, Allen or Burns. I think any of them make us a better team and would make me excited...though of course in order of their listing.

BUT Bosa to me is still the guy that makes too much sense. It's unfortunate how things go. Granted if we change one thing we may not be in this position today but it does hurt thinking that potentially 1 2 point conversion in 2016 cost us the opportunity to have a DL of...

Myles Garrett, DeForest Buckner, Quinnen Williams, Dee Ford

But I do have the hope that Solomon Thomas takes a step forward this year if we put him where he really should be playing which is inside. Bosa may not be as good as Garrett and Thomas isn't as good as Williams but Bosa, Buckner, Thomas, Ford can be pretty great as well.

Is it hypocritical of me to think that we should look at Bosa over Williams due to having Thomas on board? Maybe but I don't care.

Yeah the convo among fans is fun. That's why we're all here. I just think Bosa is the Niners guy. Personally, I slightly prefer QW over Bosa...but would be happy with either one. This draft has a ton of D-line talent so it's not surprising that there are quite a few players that fans have fallen in love with during this draft process.

Originally posted by Costanza:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Costanza:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:
424 pages for a dude we will probably pass on for QW. Good Lord

They're gonna take Bosa if he's there...unless someone offers a godfather trade down package. All this other stuff is just for us fans debating who we would take.

That's the whole point of draft discussions. Plenty of posts/pages on players we won't take considering we only have so many picks.

49ers SHOULD be able to get a pretty damn good player if we stay at #2.

Bosa, Williams, Allen or Burns. I think any of them make us a better team and would make me excited...though of course in order of their listing.

BUT Bosa to me is still the guy that makes too much sense. It's unfortunate how things go. Granted if we change one thing we may not be in this position today but it does hurt thinking that potentially 1 2 point conversion in 2016 cost us the opportunity to have a DL of...

Myles Garrett, DeForest Buckner, Quinnen Williams, Dee Ford

But I do have the hope that Solomon Thomas takes a step forward this year if we put him where he really should be playing which is inside. Bosa may not be as good as Garrett and Thomas isn't as good as Williams but Bosa, Buckner, Thomas, Ford can be pretty great as well.

Is it hypocritical of me to think that we should look at Bosa over Williams due to having Thomas on board? Maybe but I don't care.

Yeah the convo among fans is fun. That's why we're all here. I just think Bosa is the Niners guy. Personally, I slightly prefer QW over Bosa...but would be happy with either one. This draft has a ton of D-line talent so it's not surprising that there are quite a few players that fans have fallen in love with during this draft process.

I think you can argue that QW is a better DT prospect than Bosa is a DE prospect and few would disagree.

The question is what helps the team more and sets them up for better long term success given the current roster.

I think people see QW and want to compare him to Aaron Donald and considering the season he just had everyone is thinking this guy is a future DPOY. I don't think they're the same player and QW is closer to Suh than Donald.

Would love to have him...but Bosa makes us better. Hope the front office sees it the same way.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Costanza:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Costanza:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

424 pages for a dude we will probably pass on for QW. Good Lord

They're gonna take Bosa if he's there...unless someone offers a godfather trade down package. All this other stuff is just for us fans debating who we would take.

That's the whole point of draft discussions. Plenty of posts/pages on players we won't take considering we only have so many picks.

49ers SHOULD be able to get a pretty damn good player if we stay at #2.

Bosa, Williams, Allen or Burns. I think any of them make us a better team and would make me excited...though of course in order of their listing.

BUT Bosa to me is still the guy that makes too much sense. It's unfortunate how things go. Granted if we change one thing we may not be in this position today but it does hurt thinking that potentially 1 2 point conversion in 2016 cost us the opportunity to have a DL of...

Myles Garrett, DeForest Buckner, Quinnen Williams, Dee Ford

But I do have the hope that Solomon Thomas takes a step forward this year if we put him where he really should be playing which is inside. Bosa may not be as good as Garrett and Thomas isn't as good as Williams but Bosa, Buckner, Thomas, Ford can be pretty great as well.

Is it hypocritical of me to think that we should look at Bosa over Williams due to having Thomas on board? Maybe but I don't care.

Yeah the convo among fans is fun. That's why we're all here. I just think Bosa is the Niners guy. Personally, I slightly prefer QW over Bosa...but would be happy with either one. This draft has a ton of D-line talent so it's not surprising that there are quite a few players that fans have fallen in love with during this draft process.

I think you can argue that QW is a better DT prospect than Bosa is a DE prospect and few would disagree.

The question is what helps the team more and sets them up for better long term success given the current roster.

I think people see QW and want to compare him to Aaron Donald and considering the season he just had everyone is thinking this guy is a future DPOY. I don't think they're the same player and QW is closer to Suh than Donald.

Would love to have him...but Bosa makes us better. Hope the front office sees it the same way.

Yeah I love QW but think the comparison to Donald is a little too optimistic. It's like comparing Bosa to prime Von Miller or Mack.

Cardinals GM and HC meeting privately with Murray today.

Originally posted by pdc20:
He ´s the type of player that doesn´t need to be test anyway.
You just have to watch his tapes and talk with him, that ´s all you need for your evaluation as a front office.
He is a savant at his position. And we can talk about his bad games but the truth is that he is the one player in this class that had a consistent excellent level year after year.
The funnier thing is reading the first pages of this thread where everyone was like "He is a monster, he will be the first pick next year. But we have zero chances to draft him.".
Well, here we are.

Yeah, last year I didn't think we had a shot at him after a 6-10 season with Jimmy. Who knew that Jimmy and McKinnon would *both* be hurt and our record would be under an 8-8 season. Now that we have a shot at Nick, I don't think you waste that kind of an opportunity. With regards to his health and injuries, if that's a question mark, then he's perfect in our team where he can be spelled by Dee Ford (fatigue is one of the major causes of athletic injuries). Secondly, a QB that can ball hog and play keep a way, to rest the defense (a la Jimmy) helps keep the defense healthy. I noticed that we had markedly less injuries when Jimmy was playing, than where BeatHard/Hoyer was playing in 2017.

Originally posted by badguy_1:
Cardinals GM and HC meeting privately with Murray today.

Nice!

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pdc20:
He ´s the type of player that doesn´t need to be test anyway.
You just have to watch his tapes and talk with him, that ´s all you need for your evaluation as a front office.
He is a savant at his position. And we can talk about his bad games but the truth is that he is the one player in this class that had a consistent excellent level year after year.
The funnier thing is reading the first pages of this thread where everyone was like "He is a monster, he will be the first pick next year. But we have zero chances to draft him.".
Well, here we are.

Yeah, last year I didn't think we had a shot at him after a 6-10 season with Jimmy. Who knew that Jimmy and McKinnon would *both* be hurt and our record would be under an 8-8 season. Now that we have a shot at Nick, I don't think you waste that kind of an opportunity. With regards to his health and injuries, if that's a question mark, then he's perfect in our team where he can be spelled by Dee Ford (fatigue is one of the major causes of athletic injuries). Secondly, a QB that can ball hog and play keep a way, to rest the defense (a la Jimmy) helps keep the defense healthy. I noticed that we had markedly less injuries when Jimmy was playing, than where BeatHard/Hoyer was playing in 2017.

I legit feel like if the Bosa thing happens it's almost like it's meant to be and a perfect scenario after an awfully disappointing season.

Check the start of this threat to see how little hope most of us had in landing Nick.

Injuries to Jimmy/McKinnon and others led to us potentially having the opportunity to draft Nick.

I also think the injury to Nick gives us that opportunity. The way he started the season I think if he doesn't get injured any questions about him disappear and he puts up the big numbers so nobody is questioning him.

All our guys get healthy, stay healthy and we win lots of games and hopefully some Superbowls :D

If the Niners take Bosa I'm going to be pissed. I'm now convinced he'll be a bust relative to his expectations.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If the Niners take Bosa I'm going to be pissed. I'm now convinced he'll be a bust relative to his expectations.

...why?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If the Niners take Bosa I'm going to be pissed. I'm now convinced he'll be a bust relative to his expectations.

...why?

I've watch a decent amount of film on this guy now.

Here is my take: He's basically a one trick pony (bullrush, dip with good technique), that gets completely neutralized against bigger, strong OTs with equal technical skill. This means, as stated in one draft video, he might have sacks in bunches against subpar talent, but will all but disappear against the better NFL tackles. He could end up with double digit sacks, but they will mostly be against the Gary Gilliams of the NFL world. If we are using the second overall pick, I'm looking for well rounded rushers that can beat you multiple ways depending on the opponents strength.

There are plenty of guys from every position that look great in college, put up big numbers, but are just okay in the NFL. That's because the talent level is totally inconsistent at that level. In the NFL, most of your opponents will be better than anyone you faced in college.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If the Niners take Bosa I'm going to be pissed. I'm now convinced he'll be a bust relative to his expectations.

...why?

I've watch a decent amount of film on this guy now.

Here is my take: He's basically a one trick pony (bullrush, dip with good technique), that gets completely neutralized against bigger, strong OTs with equal technical skill. This means, as stated in one draft video, he might have sacks in bunches against subpar talent, but will all but disappear against the better NFL tackles. He could end up with double digit sacks, but they will mostly be against the Gary Gilliams of the NFL world. If we are using the second overall pick, I'm looking for well rounded rushers that can beat you multiple ways depending on the opponents strength.

There are plenty of guys from every position that look great in college, put up big numbers, but are just okay in the NFL. That's because the talent level is totally inconsistent at that level. In the NFL, most of your opponents will be better than anyone you faced in college.

Let me guess the one talking about his game against Oklahoma and his arm length?

I addressed that game earlier so maybe you missed it. That game had very few obvious pass rush situations and Oklahoma is an offense you can't just go hot and heavy against in the pressure situations. So taking that game and making those evaluations is flawed.

Go back to rewatching those downs. Here is what I saw

3rd and 7 - Mayfield rolls left as Bosa gets around the edge
3rd and 5 - Bosa gets around the edge but trips
3rd and 12 - beats his man, Mayfield gets the all out
3rd and 22 - don't know what happened cuz the camera at the snap was on the damn fans but Bosa had a key sack earlier in the series
3rd and 8 - get to the outside but ball is out very quick
3rd and 9 - plays inside double teamed

So in all of the "obvious" passing downs he was far from handled. He was getting extra attention all game. Had some big run stops and the big sack that was close to a safety.

Then go back and watch how often Oklahoma brought in guys to help against Nick.

If we draft him do you see him getting a ton of double teams with Buckner and Ford on the same DL?

btw...lol at calling him a one trick pony then writing two things.

Originally posted by genus49:
I legit feel like if the Bosa thing happens it's almost like it's meant to be and a perfect scenario after an awfully disappointing season.

Check the start of this threat to see how little hope most of us had in landing Nick.

Injuries to Jimmy/McKinnon and others led to us potentially having the opportunity to draft Nick.

I also think the injury to Nick gives us that opportunity. The way he started the season I think if he doesn't get injured any questions about him disappear and he puts up the big numbers so nobody is questioning him.

All our guys get healthy, stay healthy and we win lots of games and hopefully some Superbowls :D

A good QB that can ball control seems to really help the health of the team as a whole. In the 5 super bowl wins, we had pretty good health. Our 6th super bowl, we had Cowboy injured and Ian hurt. I think a lot had to do with Colin not being able to consistently ball hog on offense and rest the defense. It's a lot easier to rush the passer, and I think less injury prone, than if you are reading and reacting and waiting for the OT/Guard to smash into you, and you having to stack and shed him after he's giving you his best punch. When you pass rush the O LIneman is moving backwards and its the D Linemen punching the O LInemen instead.

We had three super bowls without a QW in the middle, '81, '84 and '94. The times we had a QW was Michael Carter in '88'89 and almost a 3 peat in '90. So we've had talented guys like QW that made this defense special, but again, we won without Michael 3 other times. We had Sopoaga in 2012 and we were a 4rth QTR pass away from a win - and Sopoaga wasn't anywhere near the athlete that QW is. The important thing is that in all our super bowl appearances, we had an elite edge rusher and that is what makes this defense a super bowl caliber defense. We didn't necessarily have a dominant NT/DT in all our 6 super bowl appearances.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
If the Niners take Bosa I'm going to be pissed. I'm now convinced he'll be a bust relative to his expectations.

...why?

I've watch a decent amount of film on this guy now.

Here is my take: He's basically a one trick pony (bullrush, dip with good technique), that gets completely neutralized against bigger, strong OTs with equal technical skill. This means, as stated in one draft video, he might have sacks in bunches against subpar talent, but will all but disappear against the better NFL tackles. He could end up with double digit sacks, but they will mostly be against the Gary Gilliams of the NFL world. If we are using the second overall pick, I'm looking for well rounded rushers that can beat you multiple ways depending on the opponents strength.

There are plenty of guys from every position that look great in college, put up big numbers, but are just okay in the NFL. That's because the talent level is totally inconsistent at that level. In the NFL, most of your opponents will be better than anyone you faced in college.

Let me guess the one talking about his game against Oklahoma and his arm length?

I addressed that game earlier so maybe you missed it. That game had very few obvious pass rush situations and Oklahoma is an offense you can't just go hot and heavy against in the pressure situations. So taking that game and making those evaluations is flawed.

Go back to rewatching those downs. Here is what I saw

3rd and 7 - Mayfield rolls left as Bosa gets around the edge
3rd and 5 - Bosa gets around the edge but trips
3rd and 12 - beats his man, Mayfield gets the all out
3rd and 22 - don't know what happened cuz the camera at the snap was on the damn fans but Bosa had a key sack earlier in the series
3rd and 8 - get to the outside but ball is out very quick
3rd and 9 - plays inside double teamed

So in all of the "obvious" passing downs he was far from handled. He was getting extra attention all game. Had some big run stops and the big sack that was close to a safety.

Then go back and watch how often Oklahoma brought in guys to help against Nick.

If we draft him do you see him getting a ton of double teams with Buckner and Ford on the same DL?

btw...lol at calling him a one trick pony then writing two things.

No, not just the Oklahoma game. Just random youtube/google stuff.

I did not mention "two things," the bullrush-dip is the same move.

For me its very simple. He doesn't have elite strength, size or speed. He has great technique and good bend. I think most of that will get neutralized against the better tackles in the NFL. I expect his short arms to be a significant disadvantage at the next level based on his playing style.