Nick Bosa, EDGE, Ohio St(The Politics Free Thread) | Page 408

Mar 17, 2019 at 5:54 PM

tjd808185
Veteran
Posts: 26,075

Originally posted by Dshearn:
ok, what is his issue then?

Well rested, rushing on obvious passing downs, highest win rate in college, .........….and he only got 8 sacks, with one 2 sack game in his entire career. The monsters that some people are fabricating here would decimate college tackles. He is not the hype people around here give him.

Being critical of his production is legitimate. The expectations that he is sack machine waiting to happen are not.

Lets steer this conversation to the fact that he has the physical tools to be a well rounded cog on this defense. That is the selling point. He pushes ST inside, and can work with the rest of the dline to control the game.

His issue was playing time. Only so much you can do on 25 snaps a game. It's like criticizing Barry Sanders his sophomore year because he only had 600 yards. Well they got Thurman Thomas taking the bulk of carries.

[ Edited by tjd808185 on Mar 17, 2019 at 5:56 PM ]

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Mar 17, 2019 at 5:55 PM

#6107

Cisco0623
Veteran
Posts: 14,312

All this talk for nothing lol

In the 2019 NFL Draft the Arizona Cardinals Select: Nick Bosa, DE Ohio St.

Mar 17, 2019 at 6:37 PM

#6108

random49er
Veteran
Posts: 14,814

Originally posted by genus49:
I forgot who I was speaking to...

Follow the posts and see if you realize what's happening here.

Realize that you're opening a whole new can of worms when you make sack comparisons to the next guy. If you have to duck and dodge the issue, better off leaving the can closed.

Originally posted by genus49:
Bradley Chubb got 12 as a rookie and 10 sacks was his max in college in many more snaps than Bosa had.

Did you just make this up out of thin air or is it sourced?

Bradley Chub (Snaps Played):

2018: 852
2017: 502 out of 574 (10 sacks)

Nick Bosa (Snaps Played):

2017: 526 (8 sacks)

https://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/roster/nick-bosa/

[ Edited by random49er on Mar 17, 2019 at 7:45 PM ]

Mar 17, 2019 at 6:38 PM

#6109

jeffreyjetson
Member
Posts: 83

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
All this talk for nothing lol

In the 2019 NFL Draft the Arizona Cardinals Select: Nick Bosa, DE Ohio St.

We would just as easily select Allen (and Ridley in the second) and call it a successful off-season

Mar 17, 2019 at 6:48 PM

#6110

LifelongNiner
Veteran
Posts: 24,485

This thread is exhibit A of why you can't please everyone here. A year ago, he was the darling that we thought we'd never get. 6 months ago, the coaching staff was damned for picking up meaningless wins because we would miss out on him.

Two months ago, we were knocked because the Cards were taking him and we finishe'd at 2. Too little, too late. Today, it seems like the Cards may pass on Bosa and now he's everything from a holdout, to injury prone, to not that good to lack of production.

Good grief.

Mar 17, 2019 at 7:07 PM

#6111

49erWill
Hall of Fame
Posts: 86,397

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
All this talk for nothing lol

In the 2019 NFL Draft the Arizona Cardinals Select: Nick Bosa, DE Ohio St.

Mar 17, 2019 at 7:43 PM

#6112

WRATHman44
Staff
Posts: 16,926

Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Highest win rate in college football. He just needs to play more snaps, imo.

ok, what is his issue then?

Well rested, rushing on obvious passing downs, highest win rate in college, .........….and he only got 8 sacks, with one 2 sack game in his entire career. The monsters that some people are fabricating here would decimate college tackles. He is not the hype people around here give him.

Being critical of his production is legitimate. The expectations that he is sack machine waiting to happen are not.

Lets steer this conversation to the fact that he has the physical tools to be a well rounded cog on this defense. That is the selling point. He pushes ST inside, and can work with the rest of the dline to control the game.

I see we're still doing that thing where you state you opinion as fact. Terrific.

Mar 17, 2019 at 7:47 PM

#6113

Rissei
Veteran
Posts: 45

Originally posted by tjd808185:
His issue was playing time. Only so much you can do on 25 snaps a game. It's like criticizing Barry Sanders his sophomore year because he only had 600 yards. Well they got Thurman Thomas taking the bulk of carries.

In Bosa's 8.5 sack season, he had more pass rushing snaps than the following players' 2018 seasons:

Josh Allen (17 sacks)
Jachai Polite (10)
Montez Sweat (11)
Jaylon Ferguson (16)

He had 5 less snaps than Ferrell (13 sacks).

Mar 17, 2019 at 7:47 PM

#6114

WRATHman44
Staff
Posts: 16,926

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:
Baby Bosa's career:

2019 Bosa will sit out 6 games due to a contract issue, get a good 8 sacks in 10 games...everyone will love him.
2020 This year he'll get injured for a season but the potential he showed shall keep everyone hyped
2021 Bosa is still recovering from an injury and that will hold him to only 10.5 sacks but that potential is still there.
2022 Bosa's "contract year" he shows out and gets 17.5 sacks and shows why he was the #2 overall pick. Niners want to sign him to a long term contract but his family tells him he's worth more if he hits the market.
2023 (5th year option) Bosa plays it safe this year and doesn't try to hurt his stock in free agency but still gets 11 sacks so he can "secure the bag".
2024 Bosa is either let go or gets tagged...either way he won't play with the 49ers lol.

That's his career in a nutshell...

Just watch.

So what happens if you're wrong?

Internet is where people come to make predictions based on nothing but speculation and wild theories....watch

Baby Bosa's career through my magic 8 ball:

2019 Bosa signs his contract on time because we're not the Chargers and gets 15 sacks and DROY
2020 Bosa flirts with the sack record but comes up short as we rest our starters late in week 17 after winning the division and home field throughout the playoffs
2021 Bosa breaks the sack record
2022 Bosa is extended for a 5 year deal after helping us win our 3rd Superbowl in 3 years
2023 Bosa has an off year as he only gets 17 sacks
2024 Bosa is still here and still setting sack records as we're on year 6 of having a top 5 defense in the NFL

Just watch.

You think a guy who never topped 8.5 sacks at Ohio State is going to show up in the NFL and get 15 as a rookie?

Highest win rate in college football. He just needs to play more snaps, imo.

Sounds like the law of diminishing returns trap. Staying fresh most of the game to rush the passer is a huge advantage. What's going to happen when he's asked to take as many snaps as Buckner or AA? Defending the run, hitting NFL running backs, tackles and guards 50 percent of the time will ware you out.

What happened when Aldon Smith got more snaps in his second season? Did playing more snaps and being less fresh make him worn out? You are pretending to know something you don't and can't know. If the defense gets off the field on 3rd downs, EVERYONE is rested. If he plays 70% of the snaps, he stays fresh and still significantly exceeds his snaps at OSU.

Mar 17, 2019 at 7:50 PM

#6115

WRATHman44
Staff
Posts: 16,926

Originally posted by Rissei:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
His issue was playing time. Only so much you can do on 25 snaps a game. It's like criticizing Barry Sanders his sophomore year because he only had 600 yards. Well they got Thurman Thomas taking the bulk of carries.

In Bosa's 8.5 sack season, he had more pass rushing snaps than the following players' 2018 seasons:

Josh Allen (17 sacks)
Jachai Polite (10)
Montez Sweat (11)
Jaylon Ferguson (16)

He had 5 less snaps than Ferrell (13 sacks).

Look at his win rate, not his sack rate. If the OC is scared sh!tless of OSU's front and calls plays to get the ball out in 1.5 seconds, you can beat the brakes off your OT without getting home.

If the QB throws incompletions or interceptions, it doesn't count as a sack, but it's a significant win.

Mar 17, 2019 at 8:23 PM

#6116

49erBigMac
Veteran
Posts: 7,975

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Rissei:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
His issue was playing time. Only so much you can do on 25 snaps a game. It's like criticizing Barry Sanders his sophomore year because he only had 600 yards. Well they got Thurman Thomas taking the bulk of carries.

In Bosa's 8.5 sack season, he had more pass rushing snaps than the following players' 2018 seasons:

Josh Allen (17 sacks)
Jachai Polite (10)
Montez Sweat (11)
Jaylon Ferguson (16)

He had 5 less snaps than Ferrell (13 sacks).

Look at his win rate, not his sack rate. If the OC is scared sh!tless of OSU's front and calls plays to get the ball out in 1.5 seconds, you can beat the brakes off your OT without getting home.

If the QB throws incompletions or interceptions, it doesn't count as a sack, but it's a significant win.

I agree Wrath, also overlooked is that Bosa was a Sophomore that year, you've got two Seniors and three juniors on that list.

He was well on his way to domination his Junior year and was even being talked about as a Heisman contestant!

Mar 17, 2019 at 8:46 PM

#6117

Rissei
Veteran
Posts: 45

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I agree Wrath, also overlooked is that Bosa was a Sophomore that year, you've got two Seniors and three juniors on that list.

He was well on his way to domination his Junior year and was even being talked about as a Heisman contestant!

His win rate (27.9%) is lower than Allen's (28.3%).

The junior/senior thing is also a bit of a red herring, Nick is a little older of a prospect (he's only 3 months younger thsn Allen). And if he is so polished, how does staying in college help him?

I agree that the 49ers should pick him at #2. But he definitely has some warts.

Mar 17, 2019 at 8:58 PM

#6118

49erBigMac
Veteran
Posts: 7,975

Originally posted by Rissei:
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I agree Wrath, also overlooked is that Bosa was a Sophomore that year, you've got two Seniors and three juniors on that list.

He was well on his way to domination his Junior year and was even being talked about as a Heisman contestant!

His win rate (27.9%) is lower than Allen's (28.3%).

The junior/senior thing is also a bit of a red herring, Nick is a little older of a prospect (he's only 3 months younger thsn Allen). And if he is so polished, how does staying in college help him?

I agree that the 49ers should pick him at #2. But he definitely has some warts.

True, but you and others are comparing Nick's Sophomore year to the others as Juniors and Seniors, Nick was about to out produce all except maybe Allen.

Also production is just an indicator, you need to watch them play and decide who will be more effective in the NFL, for me it's Bosa hands down, especially early on.

Allen and Burns for me have maybe even higher ceilings due to the burst advantage they have, but it's more of a stretch mapping out them utilising all the required skills.

Mar 17, 2019 at 9:27 PM

#6119

Oakland-Niner
Member
Posts: 24,062

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:
Baby Bosa's career:

2019 Bosa will sit out 6 games due to a contract issue, get a good 8 sacks in 10 games...everyone will love him.
2020 This year he'll get injured for a season but the potential he showed shall keep everyone hyped
2021 Bosa is still recovering from an injury and that will hold him to only 10.5 sacks but that potential is still there.
2022 Bosa's "contract year" he shows out and gets 17.5 sacks and shows why he was the #2 overall pick. Niners want to sign him to a long term contract but his family tells him he's worth more if he hits the market.
2023 (5th year option) Bosa plays it safe this year and doesn't try to hurt his stock in free agency but still gets 11 sacks so he can "secure the bag".
2024 Bosa is either let go or gets tagged...either way he won't play with the 49ers lol.

That's his career in a nutshell...

Just watch.

So what happens if you're wrong?

Internet is where people come to make predictions based on nothing but speculation and wild theories....watch

Baby Bosa's career through my magic 8 ball:

2019 Bosa signs his contract on time because we're not the Chargers and gets 15 sacks and DROY
2020 Bosa flirts with the sack record but comes up short as we rest our starters late in week 17 after winning the division and home field throughout the playoffs
2021 Bosa breaks the sack record
2022 Bosa is extended for a 5 year deal after helping us win our 3rd Superbowl in 3 years
2023 Bosa has an off year as he only gets 17 sacks
2024 Bosa is still here and still setting sack records as we're on year 6 of having a top 5 defense in the NFL

Just watch.

You think a guy who never topped 8.5 sacks at Ohio State is going to show up in the NFL and get 15 as a rookie?

Highest win rate in college football. He just needs to play more snaps, imo.

Sounds like the law of diminishing returns trap. Staying fresh most of the game to rush the passer is a huge advantage. What's going to happen when he's asked to take as many snaps as Buckner or AA? Defending the run, hitting NFL running backs, tackles and guards 50 percent of the time will ware you out.

What happened when Aldon Smith got more snaps in his second season? Did playing more snaps and being less fresh make him worn out? You are pretending to know something you don't and can't know. If the defense gets off the field on 3rd downs, EVERYONE is rested. If he plays 70% of the snaps, he stays fresh and still significantly exceeds his snaps at OSU.

Aldon is Aldon and Nick is Nick. You can't criticize my argument for "not knowing" when you're in the same boat. You are assuming his sacs will increase just because he gets more playing time, but that is an unknowable. Also, quality of sacks matter. The video breaking down Bosa shows him getting manhandled by bigger tackles with good technique.

I'm sure he'll be solid, but guys on this board act like he's the next JJ Watt or Reggie White.

Mar 17, 2019 at 10:02 PM

#6120

Giedi
Veteran
Posts: 33,371

Originally posted by 1biggi:
Some of you are more astute than I am on the prospects, but it seems that a trade down could still net the team a player of need that has potential for greatness while still building draft capitol. It seems to me that almost every year there's a draft crush by many (Bosa) that doesn't meet expectations. Thoughts?

Maybe any other position (other than Edge Rusher and QB) it would be a valid option for a trade down, but I think those two positions, edge and QB, you take the best player available because they are impact franchise players. In the 4-3 under, again, that defense revolves around the leo/elephant. Get a good one at that position and that defense is playoff caliber if you have good solid - but not necessarily outstanding - players at all the other defensive positions.