Daniel Jeremiah's Top 50

Originally posted by NYniner85:

You STILL haven't told me why YOU think he's a reach...you keep bringing up other peoples opinions and draft boards. I don't care about that, I want to know what it is on why he's a reach...have you watched him play in 2016? DJ called him a top 10 prospect end of the yr... he wasn't healthy in 2017 (dude couldn't even play in the senior bowl because of his ankle) so is that what we grade upon? IF he's 100%, he's at the very least a top 15 player (DJ even stated it) So are we thinking he's never gonna be 100% again?

If a teams game-plan is to dump it off to a RB all game because they can't throw the ball downfield based on us having a great pass rush...welp we've already won.

It's a passing league now man, stopping the pass is what matters more than anything...a EDGE rusher is one of the main ways you stop a good passing game. We sure as s**t didn't have it last yr. We then replaced out best pass rusher (Elvis) with Marsh/Attaochu who combined didn't have more sacks then Elvis last yr.

There is no way in hell you're gonna convince me that a ILB is more important than a pass rusher. Go look at drafts and who's getting paid the most in the league, pass rusher get drafted higher and paid more for a reason.

So if the 9ers were picking top 3 is Landry your pick? Pretty sure he would be so there isnt anything I can say about what I think that will move the needle. I watched him play in both 2016 and 2017 and didnt see anything that made me go wow like with Clowney or Garrett or Von Miller. I did go wow a ton for Roquan Smith.

I never said more important. But without good lb play it doesnt matter how good your pass rush is. Aldon and Justin didnt make Pat and Bo. Both are very important and this team cant count on Foster right now.

Imagine if the Jags had to play Poz against us all game long. Juice killed him on that deep pass play. It wouldve gotten out of hand if he was playing every down. Thats what will happen to Coyle and Smith if they are the starters.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
So if the 9ers were picking top 3 is Landry your pick? Pretty sure he would be so there isnt anything I can say about what I think that will move the needle. I watched him play in both 2016 and 2017 and didnt see anything that made me go wow like with Clowney or Garrett or Von Miller. I did go wow a ton for Roquan Smith.

I never said more important. But without good lb play it doesnt matter how good your pass rush is. Aldon and Justin didnt make Pat and Bo. Both are very important and this team cant count on Foster right now.

Imagine if the Jags had to play Poz against us all game long. Juice killed him on that deep pass play. It wouldve gotten out of hand if he was playing every down. Thats what will happen to Coyle and Smith if they are the starters.

What does that have to do with anything? We aren't drafting at 3 (I'd probably draft Chubb who I think is better)

again you did not explain to me what it is about Landry's game that makes him a reach at 9 or not even being a top 15 prospect? His 16.5 sacks, 22 TFL, and a crazy athletic INT didn't make you go wow in 2016 lol? I find that hard to believe.

End of the day every team has different needs and have different big boards...DJ has like what 4 QBs in the top 20? I'm willing to bet SF has pretty much thrown out QB. You can have a big board, but you also have to draft based on need (relevant of importance of position). I'm willing to bet they also have interior DE pushed down the board regarding need, you think if they have Vita ranked top 5 on their board they will take him at 9? I don't.

Juice had to make a incredible catch, that wasn't some easy play based on Poz being out of position. Dude there are about 5 ILB outside of the 1st rd that IMO are good coverage LBers. I'm not denying Smith's ability and fit for this scheme at all...the issue is we have Foster/Smith and there are plenty of guys that can play and develop in this scheme, I've already given you the names of damn near every ILB that runs the same defense and when they were drafted lol.

MY MAIN POINT about all of this is it seems like people are basing everything off some dudes mocks rather than watching s**t for themselves and SEEING who fits this defense/offense. I ask why he's a reach and people don't give me any quality answers?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
What does that have to do with anything? We aren't drafting at 3 (I'd probably draft Chubb who I think is better)

again you did not explain to me what it is about Landry's game that makes him a reach at 9 or not even being a top 15 prospect? His 16.5 sacks, 22 TFL, and a crazy athletic INT didn't make you go wow in 2016 lol? I find that hard to believe.

End of the day every team has different needs and have different big boards...DJ has like what 4 QBs in the top 20? I'm willing to bet SF has pretty much thrown out QB. You can have a big board, but you also have to draft based on need (relevant of importance of position). I'm willing to bet they also have interior DE pushed down the board regarding need, you think if they have Vita ranked top 5 on their board they will take him at 9? I don't.

Juice had to make a incredible catch, that wasn't some easy play based on Poz being out of position. Dude there are about 5 ILB outside of the 1st rd that IMO are good coverage LBers. I'm not denying Smith's ability and fit for this scheme at all...the issue is we have Foster/Smith and there are plenty of guys that can play and develop in this scheme, I've already given you the names of damn near every ILB that runs the same defense and when they were drafted lol.

MY MAIN POINT about all of this is it seems like people are basing everything off some dudes mocks rather than watching s**t for themselves and SEEING who fits this defense/offense. I ask why he's a reach and people don't give me any quality answers?

No its that you clearly love the player and are pretty dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
What does that have to do with anything? We aren't drafting at 3 (I'd probably draft Chubb who I think is better)

again you did not explain to me what it is about Landry's game that makes him a reach at 9 or not even being a top 15 prospect? His 16.5 sacks, 22 TFL, and a crazy athletic INT didn't make you go wow in 2016 lol? I find that hard to believe.

End of the day every team has different needs and have different big boards...DJ has like what 4 QBs in the top 20? I'm willing to bet SF has pretty much thrown out QB. You can have a big board, but you also have to draft based on need (relevant of importance of position). I'm willing to bet they also have interior DE pushed down the board regarding need, you think if they have Vita ranked top 5 on their board they will take him at 9? I don't.

Juice had to make a incredible catch, that wasn't some easy play based on Poz being out of position. Dude there are about 5 ILB outside of the 1st rd that IMO are good coverage LBers. I'm not denying Smith's ability and fit for this scheme at all...the issue is we have Foster/Smith and there are plenty of guys that can play and develop in this scheme, I've already given you the names of damn near every ILB that runs the same defense and when they were drafted lol.

MY MAIN POINT about all of this is it seems like people are basing everything off some dudes mocks rather than watching s**t for themselves and SEEING who fits this defense/offense. I ask why he's a reach and people don't give me any quality answers?

No its that you clearly love the player and are pretty dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree.

Don't think he's saying it's Landry or nobody.

He's saying if we like Landry then trading down because most people are mocking him in the 20s isn't a wise gamble and we shouldn't care about what other people think.

Now if you don't like Landry then that's a totally different ball game.

Originally posted by Jcool:

No its that you clearly love the player and are pretty dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree.

Nope...just backup your claims that's all. Why is that so hard to do man?

People say he's a reach, so please inlighten me as to why. I'm not looking for because so and so has him mocked at a certain pt or copy and pasting strengths/weaknesses.

FWIW my draft crush has been Derrius Guice.

I like what I have seen from a healthy( key word) Landry and his skill set is ideal for this system plus having him next to Bucker/Solly/AA would only make him that much better.

It's fine if we have different opinions, but I just want to know why everyone feels like he's a reach...is that not fair lol?

Originally posted by genus49:

Don't think he's saying it's Landry or nobody.

He's saying if we like Landry then trading down because most people are mocking him in the 20s isn't a wise gamble and we shouldn't care about what other people think.

Now if you don't like Landry then that's a totally different ball game.

Right! I've said over and over I'm cool with smith as well...my issue is why people don't like Landry outside of the fact that he's mocked outside of the top 10. How anyone could say they weren't impressed with his flim from 2016 is beyond me.

Also if SF has him and smith both ranked top 15 then yeah you draft edge all day. It's vastly more important.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
What does that have to do with anything? We aren't drafting at 3 (I'd probably draft Chubb who I think is better)

again you did not explain to me what it is about Landry's game that makes him a reach at 9 or not even being a top 15 prospect? His 16.5 sacks, 22 TFL, and a crazy athletic INT didn't make you go wow in 2016 lol? I find that hard to believe.

End of the day every team has different needs and have different big boards...DJ has like what 4 QBs in the top 20? I'm willing to bet SF has pretty much thrown out QB. You can have a big board, but you also have to draft based on need (relevant of importance of position). I'm willing to bet they also have interior DE pushed down the board regarding need, you think if they have Vita ranked top 5 on their board they will take him at 9? I don't.

Juice had to make a incredible catch, that wasn't some easy play based on Poz being out of position. Dude there are about 5 ILB outside of the 1st rd that IMO are good coverage LBers. I'm not denying Smith's ability and fit for this scheme at all...the issue is we have Foster/Smith and there are plenty of guys that can play and develop in this scheme, I've already given you the names of damn near every ILB that runs the same defense and when they were drafted lol.

MY MAIN POINT about all of this is it seems like people are basing everything off some dudes mocks rather than watching s**t for themselves and SEEING who fits this defense/offense. I ask why he's a reach and people don't give me any quality answers?

But Chubb isn't a perfect Leo. Thought it was all about fit? So value does matter more than fit? Or that only applies to those guys and not LB's.

You adjust based on what you have in terms of value yes. 9ers aren't taking a qb. But you shouldn't move something up artificially because you lack it and it's rarer on average. You can only base it on whats available in the here and now. If they rate Nelson above Landry they should take him even if there is more depth at guard. Get the higher grade all things equal or trade down.

For the 3rd time it isn't mocks, its value boards. Where they set the value of said players. When a large consensus agrees hes not worth the value you put on a player you should be asking yourself what is there that i'm not seeing. Instead it's well no one watched the guy so they can't possibly know what they are talking about because they don't have the same conclusion as me.

Incredible catch? Was thrown right to him and Poz was in his dust.

Who are these great coverage linebackers? Not Kizer. Not Jewell. Shaquem Griffin with one arm? Oren Burks might have something but he's extremely raw. Same with Leonard from what i've read. Neither have ability to start in 2018 IMO. Carter Warner and Nwosu are Sam LB's. Yah I don't see guys outside the first that will make an impact like the list you want to prop up, most of whom took awhile to develop into starters. I could see Davenport Sweat or Turay having the ability to effect games in 2018 much quicker than those ILB's I listed.

Of all the options I prefer the trade down option the best if they can swing it.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Right! I've said over and over I'm cool with smith as well...my issue is why people don't like Landry outside of the fact that he's mocked outside of the top 10. How anyone could say they weren't impressed with his flim from 2016 is beyond me.

Also if SF has him and smith both ranked top 15 then yeah you draft edge all day. It's vastly more important.

How could you be cool with Smith if it's vastly more important to draft an edge?

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

But Chubb isn't a perfect Leo. Thought it was all about fit? So value does matter more than fit? Or does that only applies to those guys and not LB's.

You adjust based on what you have in terms of value yes. 9ers aren't taking a qb. But you shouldn't move something up artificially because you lack it and it's rarer on average. You can only base it on whats available in the here and now. If they rate Nelson above Landry they should take him even if there is more depth at guard. Get the higher grade all things equal or trade down.

For the 3rd time it isn't mocks, its value boards. Where they set the value of said players. When a large consensus agrees hes not worth the value you put on a player you should be asking yourself what is there that i'm not seeing. Instead it's well no one watched the guy so they can't possibly know what they are talking about because they don't have the same conclusion as me.

Incredible catch? Was thrown right to him and Poz was in his dust.

Who are these great coverage linebackers? Not Kizer. Not Jewell. Shaquem Griffin with one arm? Oren Burks might have something but he's extremely raw. Same with Leonard from what i've read. Neither have ability to start in 2018 IMO. Carter Warner and Nwosu are Sam LB's. Yah I don't see guys outside the first that will make an impact like the list you want to prop up, most of whom took awhile to develop into starters. I could see Davenport Sweat or Turay having the ability to effect games in 2018 much quicker than those ILB's I listed.

Of all the options I prefer the trade down option the best if they can swing it.

Why can't Chubb play LEO that's ridiculous.

Again please tell my what you've seen while watching Landry (healthy) in 2016 that would lead you to believe it would be a reach? I don't care about a value draft board, I want your opinion based on what you've seen.

Why can't Leonard/Warner/moore/Avery/Thomas be good WILL LBers for us? What about their game is a huge issue (especially as a coverage backer which seems to be very important for you)...is it because someone doesn't have them high on their "value boards"?

Davenport is more than likely a 1st rd pick and Sweat is having a all-star underwear off season and is likely gone before we pick. Turay Is a walking inury and in 4 yrs couldn't get the sack output as Landry did in one.

I'd much rather gamble on a ILB in the mid rds then a pass rusher and the NFL overall thinks the same way.

We will just agree to disagree man

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Right! I've said over and over I'm cool with smith as well...my issue is why people don't like Landry outside of the fact that he's mocked outside of the top 10. How anyone could say they weren't impressed with his flim from 2016 is beyond me.

Also if SF has him and smith both ranked top 15 then yeah you draft edge all day. It's vastly more important.

How could you be cool with Smith if it's vastly more important to draft an edge?

Because I think he's a good player and if SF has him rated as high as your "draft value" boards fine.

If I had to choose between getting Deion jones OR Vic Beasley, I'm going Beasley but I'm not gonna be pissed about having Jones either.

I've never said Smith was a horrible LBer or player at all this debate has never been about him...it's about the importance of edge vs ILBer. They have jack s**t on the edge and have for a long time. Landry is a very good pass rusher and would improve the defense overall

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why can't Chubb play LEO that's ridiculous.

Again please tell my what you've seen while watching Landry (healthy) in 2016 that would lead you to believe it would be a reach? I don't care about a value draft board, I want your opinion based on what you've seen.

Why can't Leonard/Warner/moore/Avery/Thomas be good WILL LBers for us? What about their game is a huge issue (especially as a coverage backer which seems to be very important for you)...is it because someone doesn't have them high on their "value boards"?

Davenport is more than likely a 1st rd pick and Sweat is having a all-star underwear off season and is likely gone before we pick. Turay Is a walking inury and in 4 yrs couldn't get the sack output as Landry did in one.

I'd much rather gamble on a ILB in the mid rds then a pass rusher and the NFL overall thinks the same way.

We will just agree to disagree man

What about them makes you think they can other than well you can get linebackers anywhere? You've made no argument on why they can start for us in 2018.

Harold/Coyle/Smith might very well be the worst starting lb group in the NFL. If it isn't its close. 9ers need to add 2 picks in first 3 rounds to that group somehow.

I gave you reasons when you first asked. He didn't wow me. He's a speed guy who can bend well. I don't see a whole lot of converting speed to power with him and I don't see him as 2nd coming of Von Miller so that's not something I love for the 9ers. If they are going to take a guy like that i'd rather it be later, prefferably after a trade down.

Wouldn't surpirse me if as many ILB's are taken in the 1st this year then DE's. Every year is different so what has been done in the past doesn't always apply.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Because I think he's a good player and if SF has him rated as high as your "draft value" boards fine.

If I had to choose between getting Deion jones OR Vic Beasley, I'm going Beasley but I'm not gonna be pissed about having Jones either.

I've never said Smith was a horrible LBer or player at all this debate has never been about him...it's about the importance of edge vs ILBer. They have jack s**t on the edge and have for a long time. Landry is a very good pass rusher and would improve the defense overall

And the 9ers will have jack s**t at LB once Reuben is suspended if they don't address it early in the draft.

Would you at least agree Attaochu has a much better toolbox to maybe show untapped upside than Brock Coyle does?

If I had to choose between Deion Jones and Vic Beasely and Luke Kuechly and Charles Johnson ill take the latter.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

What about them makes you think they can other than well you can get linebackers anywhere? You've made no argument on why they can start for us in 2018.

Harold/Coyle/Smith might very well be the worst starting lb group in the NFL. If it isn't its close. 9ers need to add 2 picks in first 3 rounds to that group somehow.

I gave you reasons when you first asked. He didn't wow me. He's a speed guy who can bend well. I don't see a whole lot of converting speed to power with him and I don't see him as 2nd coming of Von Miller so that's not something I love for the 9ers. If they are going to take a guy like that i'd rather it be later, prefferably after a trade down.

Wouldn't surpirse me if as many ILB's are taken in the 1st this year then DE's. Every year is different so what has been done in the past doesn't always apply.

I think Skai Moore has range and great instincts especially in coverage (14 ints in college) he lead South Carolina in tackles 4 yrs in a row as well...has great football instincts.

His issue was a neck fusion in 2016 (came back and played well this yr) and the fact that he's purely a 4-3 weakside LBer, which is great for us. He's someone that will be around on day 3. Tegray Scales Is another LBer that could play both WILL and MIKE for us; high football character and great instincts IMO has been overlooked in the draft.

Finally a critique! No Landry isn't the most powerful edge rusher. I see speed around the edge with elite bend. He's not a complete pass rusher (or he'd be a top 3 pick) yet...but you can see everytime he rushes he has a plan, he's not davenport who's just bull rushing all day with no plan. His bend around the edge along with bucker and solly up the middle is exactly what we need. Who you leaving one on one there?

This is the s**t on what to see on our defense.

You guys still going with these huge walls of text?

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

And the 9ers will have jack s**t at LB once Reuben is suspended if they don't address it early in the draft.

Would you at least agree Attaochu has a much better toolbox to maybe show untapped upside than Brock Coyle does?

If I had to choose between Deion Jones and Vic Beasely and Luke Kuechly and Charles Johnson ill take the latter.

Charles Johnson is not the same player as Landry lol dude was 270 coming out of college and wasn't a quick-twitch edge rusher like Landry stop.it.

Who's smith been getting comped to...jones. Who's Landry getting comped fo Beasley.

Attaochu is a nickle rusher and not much else, counting on him at the most important position on the defensive side of the ball is foolish.