Malik Hooker S Ohio State

Originally posted by genus49:
Given the lack of pass rush 23rd is pretty good...and as has been mentioned already some guys considered elite corners are ranked around that same area..with better fronts and pass rush.

The fact that our secondary was able to play as well as they did with the chit show of a pass rush last year is actually super impressive. I'd also say it's easier to find good DBs later in the draft over stud pass rushers and those pass rushers can make the DBs look much better.

Very few DBs are good enough to bring an average DL to a quality level. A great pass rusher can make all 4+ DBs look better at the same time.

You don't get a great pass rush just from a DT. McCoy is the best 3 tech in football and look at Tampa. They've finished top half of the league once. Not his fault but you need a secondary, edge rushers, lb's. The works. The fact is we draft Thomas and we still haven't even put together a good line. We got no edge rushers. I know Garrett won't be there but if he was our pick our line just needs small tweaks.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

It may be but the most effective way to get to the qb is his blindside and it's kind of why De's, lt's are so valuable. I don't see the problem with bringing up Seattle. If we hired McDaniel I'm sure there would be a lot of talk what NE does.

My point with Seattle is you don't have to build a team exactly how they did...Sahel is the DC and learned under a lot of people. Who was the stud FS while he was in Houston for 5 yrs? How about Jacksonville? They did have Mario Williams in Houston and they brought in M Jackson in Jacksonville...there's more than one way of skin a cat and make a D good.

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Salary is set for rookies. If you can get a top DT for the same exact price you get for a top Safety for five years then that frees up a lot of space for more weapons.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
My point with Seattle is you don't have to build a team exactly how they did...Sahel is the DC and learned under a lot of people. Who was the stud FS while he was in Houston for 5 yrs? How about Jacksonville? They did have Mario Williams in Houston and they brought in M Jackson in Jacksonville...there's more than one way of skin a cat and make a D good.

But it's already confirmed we're running Seattle's cover 3. What he may of done earlier probably won't matter. Jacksonville drafted Cyprien in the 2nd right away. They brought in Malik good move but they also drafted Ramsey at 5 so let's not act like the secondary didn't matter to them.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:
Where did I say I'm sold on hooker at #2...
Regarding Ward, Gotta hand it to you NY.... you sure get salty if your not agreed with lol
I don't get it... it's opinions! And not everything stated is right!
I don't think ward is a solution to a lot of our defensive struggles.
Constantly injured... I could say smallish and shortish, but that's realative to the position and who
he's compared to.

He can't stay on the field.
A player that can't stay on the field is a waste of a roaster spot, just like
Bruce Ellington or Lynch...
can't stay on the field

I'd say he has a point when your claim is Ward can't be counted on because he's injury prone...he wasn't injury prone in college. You could say Hooker with 2 surgeries is more injury prone at this point in their careers so why can we count on him but not on Ward?

Injuries could be an issue for any prospect and unfortunately it's a sucky part of the game and you see way too many promising players not get to their full potential. Arik Armstead couldn't stay healthy either...yet people don't want to throw him away and yet he's shown less than Ward has so far for his position.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
But it's already confirmed we're running cover 3. What he may of done earlier probably won't matter. Jacksonville drafted Cyprien in the 2nd right away. They brought in Malik good move but they also drafted Ramsey at 5 so let's not act like the secondary didn't matter to them.

FTFY.

We are not Seattle. We do not have the same players as Seattle outside of Earl Thomas. You know what happened to Seattle after they drafted this apparently key to everything stud at the most important position on that defense?

They were in 25th/27th in the league on defense. They jumped to top 10 after drafting Sherman, KJ Wright, Malcolm Smith and Maxwell all while putting Kam Chancellor in to the starting lineup and adding Brandon Browner as an UDFA.

So maybe just maybe they're that good because they have so much high level talent playing together and Earl helps bring them to another level...but he's not some magic piece of the puzzle who can make everyone else look great.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

But it's already confirmed we're running Seattle's cover 3. What he may of done earlier probably won't matter. Jacksonville drafted Cyprien in the 2nd right away. They brought in Malik good move but they also drafted Ramsey at 5 so let's not act like the secondary didn't matter to them.

Uh Richard Smith was the DC for the Texans when he was there and they ran a 4-3 under...

Cyprien was a SS and a 2nd rd pick not two overall...Ramsey is a good player, but that was what 3 yrs into Bradley's tenure? I never said secondary didn't matter but that's one position where there's a TON of talent at in this draft would you not agree?

Originally posted by tjd808185:
You don't get a great pass rush just from a DT. McCoy is the best 3 tech in football and look at Tampa. They've finished top half of the league once. Not his fault but you need a secondary, edge rushers, lb's. The works. The fact is we draft Thomas and we still haven't even put together a good line. We got no edge rushers. I know Garrett won't be there but if he was our pick our line just needs small tweaks.

Obviously one guy has a tough time making the whole defense go but if you can get great pass rush from inside that goes a long way to beating some of the top QBs in this game because honestly generating passrush from the interior is that much harder. There's a reason the main sack guys are edge guys and only Randle is in the top 10 for all time sack list.

So if you can get a guy who can have success rushing from the inside that's a major plus and something few teams have. And once again...you're the one putting Thomas at just one position :) I think he can have success all over the line, maybe not excel at all of them but still be better than what we have right now save Buckner.

Originally posted by genus49:

FTFY.

We are not Seattle. We do not have the same players as Seattle outside of Earl Thomas. You know what happened to Seattle after they drafted this apparently key to everything stud at the most important position on that defense?

They were in 25th/27th in the league on defense. They jumped to top 10 after drafting Sherman, KJ Wright, Malcolm Smith and Maxwell all while putting Kam Chancellor in to the starting lineup and adding Brandon Browner as an UDFA.

So maybe just maybe they're that good because they have so much high level talent playing together and Earl helps bring them to another level...but he's not some magic piece of the puzzle who can make everyone else look great.

You bring up Seattle as not the model, and then use them to try and prove your point, but you left out some key points.

After drafting Earl, They continued their rebuild and installation of the defense by following these rules:

Corners in later rounds - Sherman 5th round. Browner UDFA. Maxwell 6th round.

Box Safety in late rounds - none drafted higher than 5th round.

Front 7 - use high rounds and FA to get the best damn athletic talent you can in your front 7.

The only high draft pick used in the entire secondary, year after year after year was one guy: Earl Thomas. They did it once. And then never went back to drafting high in the secondary.

Why were they able to build the Legion of Boom with late round athletic talent? 4/5 of their secondary is a 5th round or lower guy. (See: value of a single High Free Safety with elite range, who they drafted year 1, in the first round).

Why not follow this model?

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

You bring up Seattle as not the model, and then use them to try and prove your point, but you left out some key points.

After drafting Earl, They continued their rebuild and installation of the defense by following these rules:

Corners in later rounds - Sherman 5th round. Browner UDFA. Maxwell 6th round.

Box Safety in late rounds - none drafted higher than 5th round.

Front 7 - use high rounds and FA to get the best damn athletic talent you can in your front 7.

The only high draft pick used in the entire secondary, year after year after year was one guy: Earl Thomas. They did it once. And then never went back to drafting high in the secondary.

Why were they able to build the Legion of Boom with late round athletic talent? 4/5 of their secondary is a 5th round or lower guy. (See: value of a single High Free Safety with elite range, who they drafted year 1, in the first round).

Why not follow this model?

This makes me want to draft Hooker

Originally posted by Quest4six:

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

You bring up Seattle as not the model, and then use them to try and prove your point, but you left out some key points.

After drafting Earl, They continued their rebuild and installation of the defense by following these rules:

Corners in later rounds - Sherman 5th round. Browner UDFA. Maxwell 6th round.

Box Safety in late rounds - none drafted higher than 5th round.

Front 7 - use high rounds and FA to get the best damn athletic talent you can in your front 7.

The only high draft pick used in the entire secondary, year after year after year was one guy: Earl Thomas. They did it once. And then never went back to drafting high in the secondary.

Why were they able to build the Legion of Boom with late round athletic talent? 4/5 of their secondary is a 5th round or lower guy. (See: value of a single High Free Safety with elite range, who they drafted year 1, in the first round).

Why not follow this model?

This makes me want to draft Hooker

Originally posted by Quest4six:
This makes me want to draft Hooker

IF we're really looking for a FS why not check these two out in the 2nd? Both have been talked about as being able to be single-high FS and are pretty damn good IMHO.



OR



I'd rather go Solomon at two and then one of these two vs Hooker and whomever is there at 34...this all changes if we can trade down though.

Originally posted by Lobo49er:
You bring up Seattle as not the model, and then use them to try and prove your point, but you left out some key points.

After drafting Earl, They continued their rebuild and installation of the defense by following these rules:

Corners in later rounds - Sherman 5th round. Browner UDFA. Maxwell 6th round.

Box Safety in late rounds - none drafted higher than 5th round.

Front 7 - use high rounds and FA to get the best damn athletic talent you can in your front 7.

The only high draft pick used in the entire secondary, year after year after year was one guy: Earl Thomas. They did it once. And then never went back to drafting high in the secondary.

Why were they able to build the Legion of Boom with late round athletic talent? 4/5 of their secondary is a 5th round or lower guy. (See: value of a single High Free Safety with elite range, who they drafted year 1, in the first round).

Why not follow this model?

So you think Sherman is only good because Thomas is there? Kam was graded out as a better S then Thomas this yr? Go look at games when any of them were gone (including Bennett) that defense struggled not just when Thomas was gone.

Also I don't think Hooker is ET anyway...he's not even close to him as far as a tackler goes. I think Reggie Nelson is a far more realistic comparison

Originally posted by NYniner85:

So you think Sherman is only good because Thomas is there? Kam was graded out as a better S then Thomas this yr? Go look at games when any of them were gone (including Bennett) that defense struggled not just when Thomas was gone.

Also I don't think Hooker is ET anyway...he's not even close to him as far as a tackler goes. I think Reggie Nelson is a far more realistic comparison

I think the Sherman is good, and made better by scheme and having a single high FS with elite range over the top who also guards the seam/post.

I think Kam is good, and made better by scheme and having a single high FS with elite range over the top who also guards the seam/post.

Expert after expert (and me ) disagree with your opinion on who Hooker compares to.

Maybe browns will be high enough on hooker to swap picks with us at the top of draft. [hmischief]