Malik Hooker S Ohio State

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I'm not trashing anyone just pointing out if your going after a position at two espically a FS he'd better be flawless.

Nah. You've chilled, mostly

And we're all in agreement (I think) that these are the criteria for drafting Hooker:

To draft Hooker, you have to believe the following:

• A Single High Free Safety with Elite Range is an essential part of our Defensive Scheme, and is One of the two most important positions in the entire scheme.
• Single High Free Safeties with Elite Range are rare.
• Hooker has Elite Talent.
• Hooker's flags (medical, experience, "love of the game") have been addressed to the satisfaction of the FO

If the FO doesn't believe any one of those things, the Hooker can't be the pick.

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm not trashing anyone just pointing out if your going after a position at two espically a FS he'd better be flawless.

Nah. You've chilled, mostly

And we're all in agreement (I think) that these are the criteria for drafting Hooker:

To draft Hooker, you have to believe the following:

• A Single High Free Safety with Elite Range is an essential part of our Defensive Scheme, and is One of the two most important positions in the entire scheme.
• Single High Free Safeties with Elite Range are rare.
• Hooker has Elite Talent.
• Hooker's flags (medical, experience, "love of the game") have been addressed to the satisfaction of the FO

If the FO doesn't believe any one of those things, the Hooker can't be the pick.

That's fair and IMO I don't think he meets all of those criteria worthy of the top 2 overall pick...if we move down to 8 and he's there I can live with that

Originally posted by Lobo49er:
Nah. You've chilled, mostly

And we're all in agreement (I think) that these are the criteria for drafting Hooker:

To draft Hooker, you have to believe the following:

• A Single High Free Safety with Elite Range is an essential part of our Defensive Scheme, and is One of the two most important positions in the entire scheme.
• Single High Free Safeties with Elite Range are rare.
• Hooker has Elite Talent.
• Hooker's flags (medical, experience, "love of the game") have been addressed to the satisfaction of the FO

If the FO doesn't believe any one of those things, the Hooker can't be the pick.

I think we all agree that if he's the guy we hope he'll be the best ever.

Obviously with any guy we draft at #2 the front office/coaches think the good outweighs the bad and I'll be confident that we did our due diligence in checking on him.

Personal preferences aside I just want this team to be better and have long term success due to the guys we bring in. If that's Hooker, great. If that's Thomas, even better

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm not trashing anyone just pointing out if your going after a position at two espically a FS he'd better be flawless.

Nah. You've chilled, mostly

And we're all in agreement (I think) that these are the criteria for drafting Hooker:

To draft Hooker, you have to believe the following:

• A Single High Free Safety with Elite Range is an essential part of our Defensive Scheme, and is One of the two most important positions in the entire scheme.
• Single High Free Safeties with Elite Range are rare.
• Hooker has Elite Talent.
• Hooker's flags (medical, experience, "love of the game") have been addressed to the satisfaction of the FO

If the FO doesn't believe any one of those things, the Hooker can't be the pick.

That's fair and IMO I don't think he meets all of those criteria worthy of the top 2 overall pick...if we move down to 8 and he's there I can live with that

At what draft slot is he viable in your opinion? If we draft him and he plays great who cares if he was a safety drafted at 2 or 8 or 22? Almost every football site I've read recently has him in top 5 if not top 3. They cant all be wrong. The consensus is he's a great prospect. Odds are someone picked at 13 will be the best player in the draft anyways (7 years later).

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
At what draft slot is he viable in your opinion? If we draft him and he plays great who cares if he was a safety drafted at 2 or 8 or 22? Almost every football site I've read recently has him in top 5 if not top 3. They cant all be wrong. The consensus is he's a great prospect. Odds are someone picked at 13 will be the best player in the draft anyways (7 years later).

I agree...5-10 years from now it doesn't matter who is picked where. However what could matter is position impact.

Best QB in the class will be considered a better pick over any other position.
Best pass rusher will trump best DB, etc.

But if you get a perennial all pro/pro bowler and a straight up stud you're right nobody will really question the pick or where you drafted him.

I tend to like Budda Baker in the 2nd better. You're playing both sides of the fence with him. He's at least in consideration for safety but if we go Ward he's even better as a slot corner. Malik looked great at OSU but I don't like drafting players without a combine. Crabtree turned out solid but you get a picture of what his abilities/ limitations are.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
At what draft slot is he viable in your opinion? If we draft him and he plays great who cares if he was a safety drafted at 2 or 8 or 22? Almost every football site I've read recently has him in top 5 if not top 3. They cant all be wrong. The consensus is he's a great prospect. Odds are someone picked at 13 will be the best player in the draft anyways (7 years later).

I want BPA at two and IMO I don't think that's him...most big boards have Thomas. He provides pass rush and run stopping ability which trumps a safety.

both are good prospects end of the day.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
At what draft slot is he viable in your opinion? If we draft him and he plays great who cares if he was a safety drafted at 2 or 8 or 22? Almost every football site I've read recently has him in top 5 if not top 3. They cant all be wrong. The consensus is he's a great prospect. Odds are someone picked at 13 will be the best player in the draft anyways (7 years later).

I want BPA at two and IMO I don't think that's him...most big boards have Thomas. He provides pass rush and run stopping ability which trumps a safety.

both are good prospects end of the day.

I don't disagree, I think they are a coin toss mostly, but prefer Hooker. Every year there is a hot pass- rusher or two tbh. You don't hear many safeties being praised or easily considered top 5 and this year we have 2! So I find that appealing. I feel you you would be angry if we drafted a "safety" at 2. If they do you should be happy!

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
At what draft slot is he viable in your opinion? If we draft him and he plays great who cares if he was a safety drafted at 2 or 8 or 22? Almost every football site I've read recently has him in top 5 if not top 3. They cant all be wrong. The consensus is he's a great prospect. Odds are someone picked at 13 will be the best player in the draft anyways (7 years later).

I want BPA at two and IMO I don't think that's him...most big boards have Thomas. He provides pass rush and run stopping ability which trumps a safety.

both are good prospects end of the day.

I don't disagree, I think they are a coin toss mostly, but prefer Hooker. Every year there is a hot pass- rusher or two tbh. You don't hear many safeties being praised or easily considered top 5 and this year we have 2! So I find that appealing. I feel you you would be angry if we drafted a "safety" at 2. If they do you should be happy!

Hey, I will trust the FO with whomever we draft at two or wherever....I have a preference same as you. IMO I value QB,pass rusher, LT, CB, WR over a safety. I look at the top safeties in the league and outside of Berry they all were outside of the top 10. I also look at the other safeties in this draft and based on value I'd rather go Baker or Williams in the 2nd (if we even need to go safety) both are athletic, leaders, have more film, and ball-hawks. Finally I think Ward has been playing out of position since we drafted him (I've been saying it since day 1). He was a more than solid S in college and was a Jim Thorpe finalist. He's not as big or athletic as Hooker, but he's a baller in his own right. (11 college INTs 7 his last yr and a much better tackler with 4.45 speed).

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I don't disagree, I think they are a coin toss mostly, but prefer Hooker. Every year there is a hot pass- rusher or two tbh. You don't hear many safeties being praised or easily considered top 5 and this year we have 2! So I find that appealing. I feel you you would be angry if we drafted a "safety" at 2. If they do you should be happy!

Why?

I think NYniner has the same thought process that I do which is our DL was awful last year. Our secondary while far from great played fairly well with awful pass rush and terrible run D in front of them. Jimmie Ward IMO offers a lot more promise at FS given his play at corner and the fact the he's better facing the play than with his back to it than Armstead does at DL(and he's not even a great fit for the 4-3)

I think Thomas and Budda would be a way more impactful combo if you were inclined to draft safety early than Hooker and whoever is around in round 2.

Originally posted by genus49:
Why?

I think NYniner has the same thought process that I do which is our DL was awful last year. Our secondary while far from great played fairly well with awful pass rush and terrible run D in front of them. Jimmie Ward IMO offers a lot more promise at FS given his play at corner and the fact the he's better facing the play than with his back to it than Armstead does at DL(and he's not even a great fit for the 4-3)

I think Thomas and Budda would be a way more impactful combo if you were inclined to draft safety early than Hooker and whoever is around in round 2.

The one I got to disagree with you on is you can't account for what's later. What if Baker is off the board? What if Corey Davis falls? You really don't know what you're going to get in the 2nd round. You can look at overall depth but that's not a guarantee. I've seen 8 deep wr classes with only Fitzgerald delivering. You got to take it one pick at a time and while I'm not on Hooker's bandwagon I still don't see 3 tech as a need.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

At what draft slot is he viable in your opinion? If we draft him and he plays great who cares if he was a safety drafted at 2 or 8 or 22? Almost every football site I've read recently has him in top 5 if not top 3. They cant all be wrong. The consensus is he's a great prospect. Odds are someone picked at 13 will be the best player in the draft anyways (7 years later).

It does matter because you can look back and say "damn I wonder this team would be like if I had Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy or Trent Williams instead of Earl Thomas" if you drafted Earl before them.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:
It does matter because you can look back and say "damn I wonder this team would be like if I had Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy instead of Earl Thomas" if you drafted Earl before them.

I don't think Sea would be regretting that.

Don't mind taking Hooker or Adams.

But that means Ward is set at CB1 and Robinson as CB2. I don't hate it. But it seems like the secondary would be better off if you could have Lattimore CB1 and Robinson CB2 with Ward as FS.

Not to mention you'd save money on the Jimmie Ward extension (FS vs. CB money)

Originally posted by tjd808185:

I don't think Sea would be regretting that.

Quoted me right before I edited it with Trent Williams in it. Regardless, I'm not so sure about that. I would guess the Carroll would take McCoy over Earl any day.