Malik Hooker S Ohio State

Originally posted by tjd808185:
The safety ahead of him Von Bell was a 2nd rounder last year. That's big league college football you may be great but there's someone who's experienced and very good ahead of you. Fournette starting over Guice doesn't make him better.

Could it be that Hooker was great in one area but didn't show enough in other areas...like run D?

Urban Meyer doesn't care about these kids. He wants to win. If he felt Hooker was the better guy he would've played him as a true freshman if that was the case.

Originally posted by genus49:
I don't want to be that guy...but I'm going to be him here

You've made it a point to claim how important FS is to Carroll's defense. Carroll is a HC with a defense background.

You're telling me he values LT over the biggest piece of the puzzle for his defenses success? I don't buy that.

There is QB, then there is a pass rusher who can make that QB ineffective. You're making a case that in Carroll's defense the FS is more important. So why did he jump to LT suddenly? Is one of 5 pieces of the puzzle more important than the one guy/position who can make or break his defense?

Maybe just maybe there is more than 1 way to skin a cat and they went with BPA and Thomas just happened to be that guy for them at #14. Of course that train of thought would put a hole in your "Carroll valued FS above all else" hype piece

Read post #546 where I addressed this, but you haven't replied to.

Originally posted by genus49:
Could it be that Hooker was great in one area but didn't show enough in other areas...like run D?

Urban Meyer doesn't care about these kids. He wants to win. If he felt Hooker was the better guy he would've played him as a true freshman if that was the case.

Who said it's not about winning? Von Bell is a NFL caliber player with more experience in the system. It happens all of the time. FTR your boy didn't start or play as a freshmen either. I guess he just couldn't hang.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
The safety ahead of him Von Bell was a 2nd rounder last year. That's big league college football you may be great but there's someone who's experienced and very good ahead of you. Fournette starting over Guice doesn't make him better.

Could it be that Hooker was great in one area but didn't show enough in other areas...like run D?

Urban Meyer doesn't care about these kids. He wants to win. If he felt Hooker was the better guy he would've played him as a true freshman if that was the case.

Could it be that Hooker was great in one area but didn't show enough in other areas...like run D?

This really is a poor argument. Upperclassman often get the nod over younger players. Every year we see a better players emerge from "behind" a lesser player.

Urban Meyer doesn't care about these kids.

You're making things up you can't possibly know about Urban Meyer.

He wants to win.

Agreed.

If he felt Hooker was the better guy he would've played him as a true freshman if that was the case.

You're making things up you can't possibly know about Urban Meyer.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Sweet baby Jesus how many times you gonna post this? I've watched it . I don't care what he did on a scout team. If urban wasn't playing the more talented player because he was younger then I would hate to be a OSU fan...this isn't modified sports you play the most talented players.

The safety ahead of him Von Bell was a 2nd rounder last year. That's big league college football you may be great but there's someone who's experienced and very good ahead of you. Fournette starting over Guice doesn't make him better.

I know Bell was a 2nd rd pick, I know he was the 49th ranked S last yr and part of the reason the Saints had the 32nd ranked pass D....why couldn't Hooker beat him out? Because he was younger?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Sweet baby Jesus how many times you gonna post this? I've watched it . I don't care what he did on a scout team. If urban wasn't playing the more talented player because he was younger then I would hate to be a OSU fan...this isn't modified sports you play the most talented players.

The safety ahead of him Von Bell was a 2nd rounder last year. That's big league college football you may be great but there's someone who's experienced and very good ahead of you. Fournette starting over Guice doesn't make him better.

I know Bell was a 2nd rd pick, I know he was the 49th ranked S last yr and part of the reason the Saints had the 32nd ranked pass D....why couldn't Hooker beat him out? Because he was younger?

This has been asked and answered a couple of times. This really is a poor argument. Upperclassman often get the nod over younger players. Every year we see a better players emerge from "behind" a lesser player.

I hope we draft this kid. I think he is going to be great.

Originally posted by genus49:

Could it be that Hooker was great in one area but didn't show enough in other areas...like run D?

Urban Meyer doesn't care about these kids. He wants to win. If he felt Hooker was the better guy he would've played him as a true freshman if that was the case.

Experience in the system is probably valid, but the run troubles, mainly his poor angles, could definitely have played a part.

Hooker flat out balled, and clearly had teams avoiding him by the end of the season. I re-watched the Clemson game and they were still able to move the ball whilst being careful of Hooker.

I think Solomon Thomas gives a 2nd player on the D-Line that you probably have to double. Lynch, AA, Mitchell would look very good around him and Buckner. That might just be the way to build this thing, an Ed Reed running around would sure look great though. I think it's between them if we can't trade down though

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Not impossible but then we go back to the question, if the position is SO important to that defense then how could they not take the guy who would instantly turn around their defense?

A great LT is terrific but he's not going to turn the offense around if the QB sucks or the rest of the line is trash.

You can't have it both ways. People can't be saying oh look Carroll took FS with his first pick and then forget that they had a first rounder earlier and left Thomas on the board.

If the position is that important in his scheme and that impactful and they had Thomas rated as a top 10 guy they would've taken him first and worried about LT later.

As for Thomas people act like this kid doesn't have crazy potential on his own. Hooker is able to do some things very few guys are able to do but does some things very poorly which are pretty important. Thomas is very well rounded and scheme versatile. What happens if we decide Cover 3 isn't what we want to run next year or year down the road? Which guy out of the two of them is now a liability?

Hooker could prove to be a straight up stud, I'm not arguing that and if we draft him I'll hope he's the best damn safety ever. My biggest issue with him is there are too many things to project and hope go right. I want production, i want potential and no off the field concerns and a floor that's high up.

To me Thomas offers that more than Hooker and to me DL is still more important than FS even in a Cover 3. Get to the QB and it doesn't matter who's back there it will throw off the offense. Pats vs Seattle is a perfect example of that. Great QBs can beat any secondary if they're not rushed. I trust Jimmie Ward at FS much more than I trust our DL outside of Buckner.

so why is possibly earl thomas the most important player on their d?There is def. a bigger need at db then dl.

Originally posted by fan49:
so why is possibly earl thomas the most important player on their d?There is def. a bigger need at db then dl.

disagree there's a bigger need at DB then DL...outside of Buck we have zero starters. I'd love to see all the great film of AA. Ward IMO can be a fine FS and was a damn good S in college (jim thorpe finalist). pass rush trumps a safety

Originally posted by fan49:

so why is possibly earl thomas the most important player on their d?There is def. a bigger need at db then dl.

He's extremely important to that team.

Why are Richard Sherman and Michael Bennet paid more per year than Earl though?

Anyone who has watched the Niners for the past several years knows the defense could be burned downfield with long throws. Teams could literally wait for the 2nd half and chuck it down the field. TD!

It happened when we sucked and when we were good.

Originally posted by Lobo49er:
This has been asked and answered a couple of times. This really is a poor argument. Upperclassman often get the nod over younger players. Every year we see a better players emerge from "behind" a lesser player.

so we'd better not be using that excuse when talking about Mitchell then eh? I just want more than one yr of production if I'm drafting someone at two...I think that's a fair argument. Not only is it a position that overall isn't thought of as very important along with not having ANYONE being drafting that high at safety since 1990, he's also not got a ton of film to go off of. OH and is currently dealing with a torn labrum (shoulder injuries are no joke).

I'd rather role with Ward, or go after someone with more experience like Budda Baker or Marcus Williams ( and go elsewhere at two)...both are very athletic and were leaders of their Ds.

Budda baker: "I would leave him as a centerfielder and then roll him down over the slot if you needed too. He's too small to cover tight ends, but he's got great instincts in coverage which is why he should shine as a single-high." - NFC area scout

Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline compared Washington S Budda Baker to Seattle Seahawks S Earl Thomas.

"When I watch the film on Baker my thoughts are, wow, just wow!" Pauline writes. Baker is a dynamic athlete, indeed, to the point where an NFC personnel director said last week that the 5-foot-10, 192-pounder could even get a mulligan from some scouts on his undersized build. NFL Media's Bucky Brooks has comped him to Eric Berry. The safety's athleticism and instincts "b[lew] away" Brooks during the analyst's film study.

Marcus Williams: "Ball-hawking free safety who has outstanding ball skills and has shown a propensity for causing turnovers. He can play from a high centerfield spot and utilizes his instincts to swoop down and challenge throws. He's able to get running backs down, but he's not physical enough to be a combination safety"

An NFL scout says Utah S Marcus Williams is "like Eric Weddle in terms of his ability to work."

More than one safety out there....

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by fan49:
so why is possibly earl thomas the most important player on their d?There is def. a bigger need at db then dl.

disagree there's a bigger need at DB then DL...outside of Buck we have zero starters. I'd love to see all the great film of AA. Ward IMO can be a fine FS and was a damn good S in college (jim thorpe finalist). pass rush trumps a safety

ok we can disagree there... again lol. but when ward goes to safety which I believe he will never be close to earl thomas. Who plays corner because he was our best?

Tartt
Hooker
Ward
RObinson
Williams
looks way better than

Tarrt
Ward
Williams
Robinson
Johnson?

Dudes who keep saying "how good is he, really? Couldn't beat out some other guy last year."

Please, do not take my word for it.

NFL scout sees Ed Reed as good comp for Ohio State safety

Link

Daniel Jeremiah:
"He has the best combination of range and ball skills that I've ever seen in a college safety. His anticipation and awareness is off the charts. I wasn't in Baltimore when Ed Reed was drafted, but I arrived the following year to scout for the Ravens and spent four years around the future Hall of Famer. Hooker is the closest thing I've seen to Reed seen since I've been scouting. He is also very effective in the run game. He takes proper angles and he's a reliable tackler.

I'm not alone in my opinion. Evaluators around the league rave about him and can't believe he's only been a one-year starter. He's just scratching the surface of what he will eventually become.

Link

"He's on a level with Earl Thomas, and I don't expect any other player to match that this year. Hooker combines awareness, instincts, and excellent burst to cover the field from sideline to sideline like the NFL's greatest. Still young and developing, but his potential is sky-high."

"The first name that comes to mind when watching Hooker is Seattle star safety Earl Thomas. Some have brought up Ed Reed, but Hooker's body type and game are more reminiscent of Thomas than anyone else. "

Link

Mike Mayock on Malik Hooker: He's comparable to Ed Reed and Earl Thomas

Link