Eagles trading up for Goff

Originally posted by Draftology:
The trenches are important. That's not what I'm saying. Positional value in the draft is all relative to what you could get later. There are positions in the draft that are tough to find starters in the later rounds and positions that are easier (and btw d-line is stacked in this draft - our second rd pick could be 1st rd quality if we go DL). I'm agreeing with you in that if we think Buckner is a superstar, take him. But if his grade isn't in that mold trade out of it and get a player with higher positional value that fits a larger need. Armstead is relevant because we cannot continue to dedicate valuable resources to one position group (like we've been doing with safety) while leaving the rest of our team depleted.

Bottom line: if we project Buckner as a superstar, take him. If he has similar grades to other prospects but he's the BPA, trade back and grab a player that fits what we need and accumulate more resources later in the draft.

If he's BPA, then outside of a QB, the 49ers should stand pat and draft him. Trying to get cute and trading down only to end up with lesser, more questionable prospects often doesn't work out. The difference between Buckner and other 3-4 DE's, even in a stacked draft for DL, is still pretty large. When you have a 6'7", 290 pound guy who can move like he does, stuff the run and rush the passer like he does, with the ceiling that he has, you draft him and spend the rest of the draft addressing the other holes on the roster.


In terms of need, I would list the 49ers needs as follows:

1. QB

2. OL

3. DL

4. OLB


Anything beyond that is a luxury. You can't build an entire roster up in one offseason, so build up a few key areas. If they can upgrade the DL and OL in this draft for example, then next draft you can more thoroughly address OLB, WR, CB.....etc.

Originally posted by Draftology:
Again, I think we are agreeing in that if we think that Goff or Wentz is a franchise QB, trade up and grab him. I personally don't think we would though, because a. Baalke may not consider the Eagles a threat to grab a QB for the reasons NYniner85 is citing and b. I've never seen Baalke give up more than a 3rd to move up. Now, just because there's no precedent doesn't mean that he won't. It just makes it harder to project that he will.

I think Baalke has a better take on the situation than anyone on an internet forum. He's shown that if he wants a player, he will move up for them. Just in the 1st round he has done it with Anthony Davis and Eric Reid. If the 49ers really are thrilled by one of the top two QB prospects, giving up a 3rd moves them up to #5, if they really are sold on the guy then I don't see Baalke having any issue moving up to #4 or even #3 if that is what they think it will take.




I think you're overthinking this whole thing. We have no control over what they will do and if they really don't want a QB in the first place, then worrying about what teams like the Eagles might do becomes especially pointless.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Draftology:
So you think it would cost more than a 3rd this year and a third next to move two spots and take one player off of Baltimore's board? I really don't think it would...if I'm right, that is definitely worth ensuring you get a franchise QB and that doesn't qualify as "pushing a whole draft".

Yes, we have more ammo but giving up a 2nd rd pick when we are a more depleted team is more risky than what the Eagles could do.

Not saying it wouldn't but IF SF is interested you don't think they could offer the same? Which would be a higher 1st and 3rd this year an most likely next year as well.

Where did I say SF would be giving up a 2nd? Why can't we talk with Baltimore as well? Facts are we have higher picks/and more picks than the Eagles...if we want Goff the Eagles are the least of our worries.

When you said more ammo, I assumed you meant a 2nd rd pick because the Eagles don't have one. You're right in that our package would be better and honestly I don't how these trades work when these teams are on the clock. If Philly calls and offers their 1 and 3, does the Ravens GM have time to hang up and call SF? If I'm Philly I try to get the deal done on one call and say if they get off the phone the deal is off. However, that might not be how it works. I don't know. I'm just saying Philly is a threat. They either have legitimate interest or fake interest because they took both QB's out to dinner. Obviously that doesn't mean they're taking a QB, but it means we have to be aware of the possibility.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Draftology:
The trenches are important. That's not what I'm saying. Positional value in the draft is all relative to what you could get later. There are positions in the draft that are tough to find starters in the later rounds and positions that are easier (and btw d-line is stacked in this draft - our second rd pick could be 1st rd quality if we go DL). I'm agreeing with you in that if we think Buckner is a superstar, take him. But if his grade isn't in that mold trade out of it and get a player with higher positional value that fits a larger need. Armstead is relevant because we cannot continue to dedicate valuable resources to one position group (like we've been doing with safety) while leaving the rest of our team depleted.

Bottom line: if we project Buckner as a superstar, take him. If he has similar grades to other prospects but he's the BPA, trade back and grab a player that fits what we need and accumulate more resources later in the draft.

If he's BPA, then outside of a QB, the 49ers should stand pat and draft him. Trying to get cute and trading down only to end up with lesser, more questionable prospects often doesn't work out. The difference between Buckner and other 3-4 DE's, even in a stacked draft for DL, is still pretty large. When you have a 6'7", 290 pound guy who can move like he does, stuff the run and rush the passer like he does, with the ceiling that he has, you draft him and spend the rest of the draft addressing the other holes on the roster.


In terms of need, I would list the 49ers needs as follows:

1. QB

2. OL

3. DL

4. OLB


Anything beyond that is a luxury. You can't build an entire roster up in one offseason, so build up a few key areas. If they can upgrade the DL and OL in this draft for example, then next draft you can more thoroughly address OLB, WR, CB.....etc.

Bad teams need picks. If he's got a similar grade to several other prospects, I'd want us to trade down and grab more picks and draft a player in a more important position. However, I get what you're saying and I think it's the more likely scenario. Wouldn't be a bad thing - just not what I'd want us to do.

Originally posted by Draftology:

and honestly I don't how these trades work when these teams are on the clock. If Philly calls and offers their 1 and 3, does the Ravens GM have time to hang up and call SF?

Ravens Assistan GM DeCosta:"Hey Trent, Ozzie has the Eagles on the line, they are trying to move up, they are offering up their 3rd, since you guys might be looking at the same player, what can you offer?"


Baalke:"Look Eric, f**k those guys, we will throw in our 3rd rounder which is a lot earlier than theirs and a 6th to move up with you."


Ravens Assistant GM DeCosta:"hold on a sec...."


Ravens Assistant GM DeCosta:"Alright Trent you guys got a deal."

Originally posted by Draftology:

Bad teams need picks. If he's got a similar grade to several other prospects, I'd want us to trade down and grab more picks and draft a player in a more important position. However, I get what you're saying and I think it's the more likely scenario. Wouldn't be a bad thing - just not what I'd want us to do.

Bad teams need great players. This team has plenty of young players, what they need are more dominant All Pro type prospects, not more quantity.

With 12 picks they dont need anymore.




Buckner is ranked as the 3rd best player in the draft by NFL.com and 4th best by ESPN. Many consider him the best defensive prospect in the draft.

If youre the 49ers and you arent taking a QB, you dont pass up on that guy for any reason if he is available.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Ive always said that if 2 QBs get taken before the 49ers pick, that means some other quality prospect has dropped and I am fine with that. I would like to see a QB but would not complain about Jack or Buckner.

If the 49ers really do like a QB then I dont see why they couldnt move up just as well. The jump from 7 to 5 would cost them their 3rs round pick, not a hefty price to pay if you think you are taking a franchise QB.


The 49ers arent in a great place in the draft(The Rams and Bears wins took care of that) but they are in a good place and they can afford to sit back and let the draft come to them if there isnt any one particular player that they want.

Most likely scenario given Baalke's passive offseason so far.

It would be good. Unless went was available at 7

I think Baalke and Kelly pass on Goff at 7 anyway... Judging from Baalke's past drafts, It makes more since that Baalke goes defense at 7 and grabs a QB in the early 2nd round, or he moves back into the 1st. However, all bets are off if Kaepernick gets traded before then. Even so, I see a scenario where Baalke trades up to grab Wenz rather then take Goff.

Originally posted by Draftology:
When you said more ammo, I assumed you meant a 2nd rd pick because the Eagles don't have one. You're right in that our package would be better and honestly I don't how these trades work when these teams are on the clock. If Philly calls and offers their 1 and 3, does the Ravens GM have time to hang up and call SF? If I'm Philly I try to get the deal done on one call and say if they get off the phone the deal is off. However, that might not be how it works. I don't know. I'm just saying Philly is a threat. They either have legitimate interest or fake interest because they took both QB's out to dinner. Obviously that doesn't mean they're taking a QB, but it means we have to be aware of the possibility.

Baltimore has all the leverage especially if they have a QB and a player they value on the board. I don't see why they can't talk to multiple teams it's their pick. Also I wouldn't be surprised if GMs are already talking, I don't see Ozzie being pushed around by the eagles on a take it now deal.

Philly is just doing their due diligence with ALL the players in the top 10, if I was a GM I'd be looking at all the top prospects even if I was set at a spot. Maybe they take a QB if they are their at 8 I doubt it though. Howie has talked a lot about how most great RBs are drafted in the 1st.

and like Phoenix said is what it is...if we want Goff we are in a fine spot to get him, if not their will most likely be a impact player sitting there either way

Originally posted by vermonator:
I think Baalke and Kelly pass on Goff at 7 anyway... Judging from Baalke's past drafts, It makes more since that Baalke goes defense at 7 and grabs a QB in the early 2nd round, or he moves back into the 1st. However, all bets are off if Kaepernick gets traded before then. Even so, I see a scenario where Baalke trades up to grab Wenz rather then take Goff.

It better not be Cook and the issue with comparing a past draft is it's not the same quality of players at each position. That 2011 draft had better depth at QB vs this draft IMO.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
It better not be Cook and the issue with comparing a past draft is it's not the same quality of players at each position. That 2011 draft had better depth at QB vs this draft IMO.

I'm not a fan of Cook either, but maybe Paxton Lynch is available and can develop behind Kap or Gabbert. Like I said if Kap is traded, all bets are off.

I think the rams are more likely to

Part of me says if there is a franchise QB available within your grasp you do what it takes to get him.

The other part of me says if Chip thinks we can win with what's on the roster then you take BPA. I keep thinking if he made Foles look good i think he can do that with Gabbert and even Kap if he is still here.

Draft day can't come soon enough.

If anyone trades up in this draft for a qb they will be trading to slot #7

Baalke gets heat from clueless people, but he's a smart GM. If the only slam dunk pick in the top 10 --Myles Jack --is gone, we will trade out and let another team take a qb out of desperation. Get a solid player in the middle of the first and use the added firepower to move up a few spots and get cook if we need to