Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson - Legit alternative to Jared Goff in 2017?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jersey49er:

Oh yeah i definitely agree, i think this offseason Jimmy G is traded bc the pats will realize his price will be at his highest..I believe he still has 2 years left on his rookie contract which teams will love..

He has 1 year left after this season is over. He'd be a free agent in 2018. So pretty much whoever trades for him is going to have to give him a hefty extension and that is the biggest limiting factor on what the Patriots would get back in return.

Yup your right my fault..I was thinking he comes with a 5th year option but he was a 2nd round pick..

the niners will mess up this season and land 5th draft spot
by then theyll be no top 2 QB's or top pass rusher
gonna end up drafting an OT bc they trade joe staley for a 7th rounder
wont go after romo or garopolo or cutler or fitzpatrick or cousins or whoever
and it will be the same story again

Originally posted by JeromeBettis36:

the niners will mess up this season and land 5th draft spot
by then theyll be no top 2 QB's or top pass rusher
gonna end up drafting an OT bc they trade joe staley for a 7th rounder
wont go after romo or garopolo or cutler or fitzpatrick or cousins or whoever
and it will be the same story again

Originally posted by TheBlueHell:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Post and twist his play anyway you want to, for every one to three videos you post of him doing this or that, there's a ton of video out there that says otherwise. But of course disregard that right and we should just base his play off of what you see.

Please explain how there is a "ton of" bad video out there on a QB who is 8-0 this season and was 14-1 last season with his only loss being a superhuman effort against Bama in the championship game (he was a freak as a freshman as well and actually broke the Clemson record for most passing TDs in a game with 6 in his first start as a freshman). Please find all the bad video of literally the only QB in NCAA history to throw for 4000 and rush for 1000 in one season.

You're chirping because he threw two bad passes and so you have concluded that he can't read defenses or come off his first read. I then rebutted that assertion with video evidence from last night's game alone, and you have no idea how to gracefully concede that the video shows you are wrong.

If you tell me that he is dependent on his first read and I literally provide video evidence from last night's game (where he went over 400 yards AGAIN) that shows several examples of him demonstrating next level sophistication on numerous fronts (maneuvering within the pocket, manipulating coverage with his eyes, recognizing a blitz and pivoting to the backside for a TD, using a pump fake to his first read to then go deeper to his next read for a first down conversion), then you really don't have a leg to stand on here.

I've posted a ton of video in this thread to show you why I would pass on Watson or any QB like him. Problem is, you make up a bunch of excuses to try and tell me otherwise.

1. You tell me he doesn't rely on his first read, yet I posted a video or two of games that show exactly that.
2. You tell me he doesn't take off and run most of the time, yet again I show you a video or two that shows he does exactly that.

You continue to post stats like they're relevant in this argument, and I'm not talking about his rush yards or pass yards at all. I'm looking more at his decision making and overall play as a QB.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jersey49er:

I agree on Kaaya, I've watched Mahomes and I like his game a lot..he has a strong arm, accurate, nice touch on the ball when needed and has that Russell Wilson type of scrambling ability while still looking down field..obviously he will need work but i like his skills..

I'm all for Jimmy G just don't know if I would pay what they will be asking for..I'm sure they want more then the 2nd they used on him..And the 3 you mentioned I think they are all gone in the top 15 picks..so say Garrett 1st and either trade for Jimmy G or take Mahomes and I'm a happy man so far lol

I'm not so sure what they are willing to take...they just moved on from a pro bowl LB for a low 3rd and Jimmy G isn't gonna be cheap when it's time to get a contract if he stays there...the fact that they drafted another qb in the 3rd leads me to believe there might be a plan to move on at some point.

I'm sorry guys, but for the life of me I don't know how anyone expects NE to part ways with Jimmy for anything less than one 1st. Why would they? He's under contract and going nowhere anytime soon. Brady is 39. He could fall off a cliff tomorrow at that age. Unlikely tho, but he's not playing forever. And if an organization that understands that there are no guarantees at QB, it's NE. For a guy who is still a season or more from a contact, I wouldn't expect Jimmy G to go for anything less than one 1st and maybe a 2nd or 3rd in the same draft. Heck if I'm NE, I would practically own your next couple drafts if you wanted Jimmy that bad.

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:

I'm sorry guys, but for the life of me I don't know how anyone expects NE to part ways with Jimmy for anything less than one 1st. Why would they? He's under contract and going nowhere anytime soon. Brady is 39. He could fall off a cliff tomorrow at that age. Unlikely tho, but he's not playing forever. And if an organization that understands that there are no guarantees at QB, it's NE. For a guy who is still a season or more from a contact, I wouldn't expect Jimmy G to go for anything less than one 1st and maybe a 2nd or 3rd in the same draft. Heck if I'm NE, I would practically own your next couple drafts if you wanted Jimmy that bad.

Brady is playing some of his best football right now and is currently signed until 2020.

Your high if you think anyone is throwing out a 1st let alone more than that. Did you just not see they took a comp 3rd rd pick for a pro bowl LB. Jimmy G has 2 and 1/2 games of film that's not gonna get you a first let alone multiple early picks... you got to add in that the team trading for him will have to pay him (which lowers the value).

you think they're gonna pay him starter money being Brady's backup? You must not follow NE football because they don't pay anyone besides Brady top money (and even he's taking a deal).

Why did NE draft brissett in the 3rd? Maybe because they knew they might get something for Jimmy. If you're NE you can get something for him now or lose him in a yr...Brady isn't going anywhere the way he's playing football.

NE vlaues those draft picks along with those cheap contracts and they've shown that over and over, they've moved much much more proven vets.

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
I'm sorry guys, but for the life of me I don't know how anyone expects NE to part ways with Jimmy for anything less than one 1st

For the life of me I don't know how anyone expects NE to part ways with a young Pro Bowl linebacker for a conditional 3rd or 4th round pick.





I think a 2nd round pick plus a conditional 3rd or 4th round pick should get it done. Any team that trades for Garoppolo immediately would have to give him a huge new contract, he also has a very limited body of work in terms of actual snaps.


Garoppolo is a free agent after next season. The Patriots either plan on keeping him longterm and will offer him a big deal or franchise him or they will trade him....or lose him for nothing in free agency. The latter is the most unlikely scenario.

They traded away Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins, two outstanding players in the primes of their careers for relatively little in return because those guys would both soon be due huge new deals. If they arent going to sign Garoppolo long term, they will trade him for whatever they can get.

And no, nobody is blowing up multiple drafts for Jimmy Garoppolo. Teams can always tell the Patriots to go f**k themselves and then draft a QB who will be under team control at an affordable salary for at least 4 years.


If it comes down to trading a bunch of picks for Garoppolo or using an early pick on a Deshaun Watson, DeShone Kizer or Mitch Trubisky, it makes more sense to go with the second option.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:

I'm sorry guys, but for the life of me I don't know how anyone expects NE to part ways with Jimmy for anything less than one 1st

For the life of me I don't know how anyone expects NE to part ways with a young Pro Bowl linebacker for a conditional 3re or 4th round pick.

Right lol...they've moved many more proven vets than someone like Jimmy G.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:

I'm sorry guys, but for the life of me I don't know how anyone expects NE to part ways with Jimmy for anything less than one 1st

For the life of me I don't know how anyone expects NE to part ways with a young Pro Bowl linebacker for a conditional 3re or 4th round pick.

Right lol...they've moved many more proven vets than someone like Jimmy G.

You think Tom is playing until 2020? You're smoking this bud on the planet. We're comparing a potential franchise QB to an ILB who has been a little banged up his career. His an awesome player, but Jimmy G easily commands more than whatever they got for Jamie. Doesn't matter why Bill drafted Jacoby. He's been known to draft QBs high regardless. When Jimmy played, he looked damn good. Pat's are in no rush to trade or sign him. And as many QB starving teams out there with several iffy drafts coming, teams will be falling over themselves to nap Jimmy. Pat's are in the drivers seat here. They can command whatevwr they want.

Wait I'm arguing with folks who thought Sean Payton and Drew Brees were on there way to the Bay this past offseason.

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
You think Tom is playing until 2020? You're smoking this bud on the planet. We're comparing a potential franchise QB to an ILB who has been a little banged up his career. His an awesome player, but Jimmy G easily commands more than whatever they got for Jamie. Doesn't matter why Bill drafted Jacoby. He's been known to draft QBs high regardless. When Jimmy played, he looked damn good. Pat's are in no rush to trade or sign him. And as many QB starving teams out there with several iffy drafts coming, teams will be falling over themselves to nap Jimmy. Pat's are in the drivers seat here. They can command whatevwr they want.

They can command whatever they want, doesn't mean they will get it. The whole "iffy drafts" thing is nonsense. Last year was supposedly an "iffy draft" and yet the Cowboys and Eagles both seem content with their iffy QB's, not to mention the guys that may continue to develop such as Goff, Lynch, Kessler....etc.

No telling who will emerge from this upcoming draft. Over the next few years you have Deshaun Watson, Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer, Patrick Mahomes, Jake Browing, Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen, Mason Rudolph, Austin Allen, Luke Falk....etc. There's enough QB prospects that will be available that teams don't have to be desperate.

The Patriots on the other hand have a ticking clock if they don't intend on keeping Garoppolo. He is under contract for one more season after this and odds are if they don't intend on keeping him, they will be looking to trade him this offseason. Any team that trades for him will be figuring in the cost of a brand new contract into their trade offer. On top of that, teams will also look at the play of Brock Osweiler in Houston as a guy who was a backup on a stocked team and has failed to deliver as a cautionary tale.


Its not like Garoppolo is a proven commodity or close. He has played well in limited opportunities but you're also going to have to sign him to a huge deal that will impact your cap situation a lot more than drafting a QB and having them at a cheap salary for 4 years. If it comes down to trading a 1st rounder for Garoppolo or drafting a guy like Trubisky, give me Trubisky, he's a better prospect than Garoppolo was coming out of college to boot.

Originally posted by JeromeBettis36:
the niners will mess up this season and land 5th draft spot
by then theyll be no top 2 QB's or top pass rusher
gonna end up drafting an OT bc they trade joe staley for a 7th rounder
wont go after romo or garopolo or cutler or fitzpatrick or cousins or whoever
and it will be the same story again

I can see this happening.

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:

You think Tom is playing until 2020? You're smoking this bud on the planet. We're comparing a potential franchise QB to an ILB who has been a little banged up his career. His an awesome player, but Jimmy G easily commands more than whatever they got for Jamie. Doesn't matter why Bill drafted Jacoby. He's been known to draft QBs high regardless. When Jimmy played, he looked damn good. Pat's are in no rush to trade or sign him. And as many QB starving teams out there with several iffy drafts coming, teams will be falling over themselves to nap Jimmy. Pat's are in the drivers seat here. They can command whatevwr they want.

Wait I'm arguing with folks who thought Sean Payton and Drew Brees were on there way to the Bay this past offseason.

I never said Brees was coming here...think your thinking of someone else. I thought Payton was coming here if we made him the highest paid HC and that wasn't happening either (plus I along with everyone else were going off reports with Payton).

Tom doesn't look like he's slowing down at all...let's wait and see man, like I said I'm going off of what Bill an co. have done with many many vets in NE. It's all about the system in NE not one player, if they feel they can get some return on a qb that they most likely lose in a yr why the hell not??? And why are you throwing out the fact they just drafted a qb in the 3rd last yr?

Why couldn't they just draft yet another qb to groom? I will bet money they don't sign Jimmy G to a long contract no happening as long as Brady is here. They can trade him, let him ride the bench for another yr and lose value in a trade or lose him in FA? If a team wants to throw a first for him then so be it, not sure who's doing that for some with 2 1/2 games of tape to his name.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

They can command whatever they want, doesn't mean they will get it. The whole "iffy drafts" thing is nonsense. Last year was supposedly an "iffy draft" and yet the Cowboys and Eagles both seem content with their iffy QB's, not to mention the guys that may continue to develop such as Goff, Lynch, Kessler....etc.

No telling who will emerge from this upcoming draft. Over the next few years you have Deshaun Watson, Mitch Trubisky, DeShone Kizer, Patrick Mahomes, Jake Browing, Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen, Mason Rudolph, Austin Allen, Luke Falk....etc. There's enough QB prospects that will be available that teams don't have to be desperate.

The Patriots on the other hand have a ticking clock if they don't intend on keeping Garoppolo. He is under contract for one more season after this and odds are if they don't intend on keeping him, they will be looking to trade him this offseason. Any team that trades for him will be figuring in the cost of a brand new contract into their trade offer. On top of that, teams will also look at the play of Brock Osweiler in Houston as a guy who was a backup on a stocked team and has failed to deliver as a cautionary tale.


Its not like Garoppolo is a proven commodity or close. He has played well in limited opportunities but you're also going to have to sign him to a huge deal that will impact your cap situation a lot more than drafting a QB and having them at a cheap salary for 4 years. If it comes down to trading a 1st rounder for Garoppolo or drafting a guy like Trubisky, give me Trubisky, he's a better prospect than Garoppolo was coming out of college to boot.

Couldn't have said it better...throwing in the added value that he needs a contract (and will look at that 4 yrs $72 million deal from brock) and the idea that you can have a rookie qb on a cheap deal with a possible 5 yr contract it does affects his value (along with the small sample size).

Originally posted by Kolohe:
I've posted a ton of video in this thread to show you why I would pass on Watson or any QB like him. Problem is, you make up a bunch of excuses to try and tell me otherwise.

1. You tell me he doesn't rely on his first read, yet I posted a video or two of games that show exactly that.
2. You tell me he doesn't take off and run most of the time, yet again I show you a video or two that shows he does exactly that.

You continue to post stats like they're relevant in this argument, and I'm not talking about his rush yards or pass yards at all. I'm looking more at his decision making and overall play as a QB.

Dude, I seriously wonder if you know anything about Watson at all. For anyone to question his pocket presence or willingness to keep his eyes downfield instead of just tucking and running is a joke. Have you watched any of his games at all? Nobody is suggesting he is perfect, just as Joe and Steve weren't perfect. It's all about frequency. You criticized him for these alleged tendencies and yet I will again post this video and these comments from the FSU game where he AGAIN led the team down the field at crunch time for a winning score (actually led three scoring drives in a row). Please tell me where I am wrong with my comments here:



Lots of great plays in this video:

• The first TD was a beautiful touch pass over the defender in the flat to Renfrow after play-action and a little rollout action.
• 3rd and 11 from his own endzone he throws a perfectly placed ball down the sideline to Cain between the CB and approaching S.
• Next play he lofts a beautiful deep ball to Cain despite the CB having pretty decent coverage.
• 3rd down and 21 he buys time by avoiding the pass rush and throws a dart to Renfrow that sets up 4th and 1, which they then convert en route to scoring for the lead.
• 1st and 10 he looks to the left side of the field to draw the LB over and then throws behind that LB into the vacated space to the TE for a long gainer.
• 3rd and 5 he pump fakes to his first read, Artavis Scott on the drag, and then resets and throws to the TE for a first down
• On the TD to Leggett, he looks to the left where he recognizes the pressure at the snap of the ball and immediately comes back to the right where he waits for Leggett to run a corner route while Renfrow runs a post that draws both defensive backs with him. He knows that Gallman is one of the best pass protection backs in the country and calmly waits for Leggett to bust open. A bust by the DBs, but the point is that Watson knew the pressure was coming and pivoted to the backside of the play where he knew the Renfrow/Leggett route combo would occur.
• Not shown in this video, but on the ensuing two point conversion he steps up and evades the pass rush while finding Mike Wiliams.
• He also shows the ability to run opportunistically whether via zone reads, QB runs, or when a play breaks down.

^^^^You see, you continue to post a lot of how he drove this or that in for a TD or what pass was beautiful or this pass was beautiful. I'm talking about his tendency to rely on his first read, relies on his running, relies on Mike Williams, Hunter Renfrow and Artvais Scott to bail him out, because those dudes were WIDE open, not as tough of passes as you'd think. He turns the ball over more than you would think for a supposed top 5 pick. Just not buying the hype that he is a top 5 pick let alone top 10.

Here's a good video of what I'm talking about.



I count twice in the the first quarter he almost threw picks. Just as much as you want to lay blame on the receiver for 3 of his picks, he's lucky the defenders drop his passes.

How about this game, not his best, but still gets all the credit in the world for winning this one:





Here's another video of defenders dropping his passes. More often than not Watson relies on his first read, I don't have that much fingers to count them all. Did I mention Watson has a top 15 pick in Mike Williams and Jordan Leggett at his disposal??

Like I said, good college QB, just not want I want to see as a 49er. For all this talk about how he fits Chip Kelly's offense, well what happens when Kelly leaves, cause he's not making a strong case of sticking around past year two. Watson's one (or two) read-read option won't take him far in the Pro's, and I can tell you what if he's drafted in the top 5-10 picks he's gonna be asked to start right off the bat, which I think would be a huge mistake.

This one of those Agree to Disagree situations because you're not changing my mind and I'm not changing yours we both prefer two different types of QB's. More importantly I prefer a whole different type of offense to what is being ran now.