Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson - Legit alternative to Jared Goff in 2017?

Originally posted by birdie2bogey:
Don't most top QB prospects have rough adjustment periods? They still get drafted high

Most top guys start year one...the A.Rodgers of this world are few.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
If one of these guys seems likely to become an All Pro passer down the road with some coaching, they could very well be worth it even if they don't play much their first year. Evaluators need to project what these guys are going to look like in their scheme, with some time and coaching, what they will be capable of in a year, three years, five years...etc. I think Trubisky, Watson, Kizer and Mahomes all can be successful given the right coaching and the right talent around them.

That could be true of anyone drafted in any round, It doesn't mean only the top 1st round qb's are capable of this. The key to the top 5 is that you're expecting a certain level of skill that will make the transition to NFL starter easy. If the objective is to sit the rookie for a season or more then draft someone with better value later and use that higher pick on someone that can provide an immediate impact.

QBs with elite tools don't tend to fall past the first round. Mahomes will probably be there for our 2nd round pick, because he's only 6'2 with smallish hands and is extremely raw coming from an Air Raid offense, but typically guys with that kind of arm talent get drafted early.

If a QB pans out, they're still a great value even if it takes them 2-3 years to become a starter. The argument for taking a developmental QB early instead of late is that you either think that QB has a higher probability of panning out (Trubisky, Watson) or you think they have a higher ceiling/more potential if they do pan out (Kizer, Mahomes). You can't just gamble and pick a bunch of late round QBs, because you only have a certain number of practice reps.

If Kyle Shanahan thinks Kizer or Trubisky has a decent shot at being be a top 10 QB in the league 3 years from now, you run to the podium to make that pick. It doesn't matter if they aren't ready to start right away, particularly because we're rebuilding and won't make the playoffs next year anyways.

Originally posted by TheBlueHell:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Trubisky and Peterman have no problem scanning the field, can't say that about a few of the top QB's in this draft.

We don't really know what Trubisky has a problem with due to such a limited sample size. Everyone was creaming themselves over Watson after the first Bama game headed into this season without any concerns about scanning anything (hell I linked a video from his first start as a freshman vs UNC ironically when Trubisky actually played a few series where Watson tossed 6 TDs including a couple of great instances of deep accuracy and manipulating coverages while reading), yet now we're all suddenly concerned after watching him bring home a title and slaughter two NFL defenses in Bama/ Ohio St.

Again, I was never really a fan of Watson. Sure I rooted for him to beat Bama twice, that's because I can't stand Saban. IMO, Watson has a lot of flaws in his game and also not my preference of the type of QB he is.

After seeing how good Shanahan's offense can be with a pocket passer, I just wanna stay from all QB's who have deficiencies reading the field and being impatient in the pocket. I think Watson can make all the throws necessary in the NFL, but trying to combine that with taking 3, 5 and 7 step drops while scanning the field is where I think he'll struggle, same way Kaepernick does/did.

Anyway, I'd much rather trade for Garoppolo or Cousins than to draft any of these QB's. That's pretty much where I stand.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
QBs with elite tools don't tend to fall past the first round. Mahomes will probably be there for our 2nd round pick, because he's only 6'2 with smallish hands and is extremely raw coming from an Air Raid offense, but typically guys with that kind of arm talent get drafted early.

If a QB pans out, they're still a great value even if it takes them 2-3 years to become a starter. The argument for taking a developmental QB early instead of late is that you either think that QB has a higher probability of panning out (Trubisky, Watson) or you think they have a higher ceiling/more potential if they do pan out (Kizer, Mahomes). You can't just gamble and pick a bunch of late round QBs, because you only have a certain number of practice reps.

If Kyle Shanahan thinks Kizer or Trubisky has a decent shot at being be a top 10 QB in the league 3 years from now, you run to the podium to make that pick. It doesn't matter if they aren't ready to start right away, particularly because we're rebuilding and won't make the playoffs next year anyways.

This is the thing I don't completely agree with...QB's are the hardest thing to evaluate and are not an exact science. Talent is always available later in the draft it's just a matter of finding it, developing it and committing to it. If what you said was the case there wouldn't be guys like D.Carr, Russel Wilson or Drew Brees. I mean the two guys we are rumored to want to trade fore weren't even first round picks in Cousins and Garrappolo.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
QBs with elite tools don't tend to fall past the first round. Mahomes will probably be there for our 2nd round pick, because he's only 6'2 with smallish hands and is extremely raw coming from an Air Raid offense, but typically guys with that kind of arm talent get drafted early.

If a QB pans out, they're still a great value even if it takes them 2-3 years to become a starter. The argument for taking a developmental QB early instead of late is that you either think that QB has a higher probability of panning out (Trubisky, Watson) or you think they have a higher ceiling/more potential if they do pan out (Kizer, Mahomes). You can't just gamble and pick a bunch of late round QBs, because you only have a certain number of practice reps.

If Kyle Shanahan thinks Kizer or Trubisky has a decent shot at being be a top 10 QB in the league 3 years from now, you run to the podium to make that pick. It doesn't matter if they aren't ready to start right away, particularly because we're rebuilding and won't make the playoffs next year anyways.

This is the thing I don't completely agree with...QB's are the hardest thing to evaluate and are not an exact science. Talent is always available later in the draft it's just a matter of finding it, developing it and committing to it. If what you said was the case there wouldn't be guys like D.Carr, Russel Wilson or Drew Brees. I mean the two guys we are rumored to want to trade fore weren't even first round picks in Cousins and Garrappolo.

Brees was picked 32nd and Carr was picked 36th. At least 2/3 of the starting QBs in the NFL were picked in the first round or early in the 2nd round. Part of that is that first round picks get more opportunities to start and more practice reps, but those guys are also more talented.

Those two guys (Cousins, Garappolo) also don't have elite tools. Neither of them has elite arm strength and Garapollo doesn't have great size either (he does have a quick release though). I'm not convinced Garapollo will ever be a top 10 QB - Cousins had a great season statistically, but he had some serious talent around him on offense. There's no way he would have put up stats like that on the 49ers last year.

You can still be a great NFL QB without elite arm strength or ideal size, but the guys with better physical tools who get picked in the first round have a much higher success rate. Sure, you can find talent in the 6th round (Tom Brady is an obvious example), but when you don't have a starting QB, you can't go digging through the 6th round hoping to find one. If we're going to commit to spending the next year or two grooming a QB, I'd like to hope there's a decent shot they'll pan out.

Carr was similar to Mahomes coming out. He also lacked ideal height (6'2) and hand size (9 1/8"), was coming from a spread offense, and didn't have consistent footwork, but his arm strength got him drafted 36th overall. Mahomes will likely fall further than that, because he's very inconsistent, but I can't think of any QBs with that kind of arm strength who were drafted 3rd round or later other than maybe Cardale Jones who doesn't have touch or accuracy.

The strongest arms in the NFL (subjective list):
Stafford - #1 overall
Cutler - #11 overall
Flacco - #18 overall
Newton - #1 overall
Rodgers - #24 overall (his arm seemed to get stronger between college and the NFL, but he still had good arm strength in college)
Roethlisberger - #11 overall
Cardale Jones - #139 (4th round)
Kaepernick - #36 overall (2nd round)
Carr - #36 overall (2nd round)
Winston - #1 overall

If we draft a QB, I hope it is Watson. I will trust what Kyle and Lynch choose to do. I just don't see the love for Trubisky. I think if we had someone like Rodgers, Newton, Mariota, Roethlisberger etc.. that next to any QB like that .. he wouldn't even be talked about lol.

I love the way Watson can throw someone open, or give them a chance on the ball and I love his intangibles. I think his skill set is fantastic and I believe he will be successful. All of the things people say are "Wrong" with him, can be coached up and fixed.

Smoothest passer so far....

Best mechanics of the group.

Watson is the best passer out there today

NFL Network dude just said Watson is "cutting Trubisky to ribbons" out there lol. DW4 looking great today.

Originally posted by TheBlueHell:

NFL Network dude just said Watson is "cutting Trubisky to ribbons" out there lol. DW4 looking great today.

It's true. He looks the best of the group and it's not even close

I have no dog in this race. I've been critical of all the quarterbacks. With that said, it's not that close when I see these guys throw. One guy looks like an NFL quarterback already, and that's Watson.


He's clearly ahead of his peers and by far the most polished and refined quarterback from a mechanical stand point. He's very consistent with his throws in every direction at every level. Entire body is in sync and the ball comes out effortlessly.

Originally posted by Heroism:
I have no dog in this race. I've been critical of all the quarterbacks. With that said, it's not that close when I see these guys throw. One guy looks like an NFL quarterback already, and that's Watson.

He's clearly ahead of his peers and by far the most polished and refined quarterback from a mechanical stand point. He's very consistent with his throws. Entire body is in sync and the ball comes out effortlessly.

Agree that he's the most NFL ready of the top 4 QBs. He also has the weakest arm and is only marginally more athletic than some of the other QBs when some were expecting him to run in the 4.5 range. Watson probably has the highest floor and lowest ceiling of the top 4 guys.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Agree that he's the most NFL ready of the top 4 QBs. He also has the weakest arm and is only marginally more athletic than some of the other QBs when some were expecting him to run in the 4.5 range. Watson probably has the highest floor and lowest ceiling of the top 4 guys.

Analysis like this are hilarious...how can you know? What we do know is of this group he has the best intangibles and that is a better determining factor with ceiling over anything else.

Consistent. Repeatable. Refined. Watson separated himself from the pack IMO.