The player you want most 2016 draft

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Agreed ^

Best description Ive seen about Hackenberg.

In perhaps his last collegiate regular season game, the junior offered a collection of greatest hits, backpedaling in panic and taking a 14-yard Lawrence Thomas sack in the second quarter, for instance. There was the wide-open receiver on a two-point conversion who watched a fastball whiz over his head. There was the interception into blanket coverage in the end zone that Hackenberg threw despite the corner having long since solidified inside coverage. There was plenty of deciding on a target pre-snap. There was the thing he does where he stalks off the field, rips off his helmet, and yells at nobody in particular. Hackenberg is a child who's been given a rifle and has no context for how it ought to be used.

Dude has a cannon for an arm but possesses no control over it. Accuracy is one of those things that few QBs really improve upon going from college to the NFL. If you werent accurate in college, youre most likely not going to be accurate in the NFL.

That sums it up very well lol....pass

Devontae Booker.

Meh, Hackenberg is 20 years old and has the best all round tool set of any QB in the draft. He'll likely be there in round 3. If you want a "2 or 3 year project", you don't use a top 10 draft pick on one. That guy has to start right away pretty much. You look for a long term bargain pick, that requires refinement in his game. You look for a guy who is undervalued because of the situation he was in, like Gabbert in Jacksonville. Chris went to a program that was in the ground and being buried over the sex scandal at Penn State. He could have dropped his commitment and went elsewhere like several others did, but he stuck it out knowing it wasn't going to work in his favor personally. He was thrown into the fire from the get go, with very little support around him, and didn't have the benefit of playing in junk offenses like Goff and Lynch. He's younger now than Cook and Wentz were when they got their first college starts, probably.

Originally posted by GreatGabbert:

Meh, Hackenberg is 20 years old

What does age have to do with it? He's a third year college QB, the same as Goff and Lynch.


We're not talking about an OL or DL where guys can show serious improvement as they mature physically.


Nobody is questioning his arm strength or physical ability, they are questioning his terrible throwing accuracy and lack of quarterbacking aptitude relative to his peers. History shows that QBs who show poor throwing accuracy in college dont often become accurate passers in the NFL. In fact it is incredibly rare.



Its far more likely that Hackenberg fits the established rule rather than being the highly unlikely exemption, regardless of how awesome he was in high school.

Matt Stafford was under 60% comp for most of his college career. With much better support than Hackenberg has had. Stafford threw for 5k yards and 40+ Tds his third pro season. After being essentially written off as a bust the previous year.

Stafford 6-2 225, big arm Georgia (A.J. Green etc.) 57.1% career comp rate, 7731 yrds, 51 Td 33 Int in 3 full seasons as a starter.
Hackenberg 6-4 235 big arm Penn State (no help) 56.1% career comp rate, 8318 yrds, 48 Td, 30 Int in 3 full seasons as a starter.

Both came out as 20 year olds, with Hackenberg being a couple weeks younger than Stafford was. Both were 5 star recruits and the top pro style QBs of their class.

It's THE SAME ****ING PLAYER.

Comparing stats isn't exact science man. One faced SEC talent the other faced BIG10

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Comparing stats isn't exact science man. One faced SEC talent the other faced BIG10

Yeah and one was supported by SEC talent (and some of the best at that) while the other was supported by less than BIG10 talent.

Stafford was a disaster his first season in the NFL (worse than Gabbert) and injury ridden his second. Everyone was ready to write him off, but by his third season he was maybe the best in the league. The talent was there, he just had to mature, and have some weapons around him. You can say the same about Gabbert and Hackenberg.

Hackenberg did have Allen Robinson btw

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Hackenberg did have Allen Robinson btw

Yeah, the year Chris had Robinson to throw to, his stats were quite decent. Particularly for a true frosh starter. That was probably a gauge of what his career would have looked like with any kind of support.

Originally posted by GreatGabbert:
Stafford 6-2 225, big arm Georgia (A.J. Green etc.) 57.1% career comp rate, 7731 yrds, 51 Td 33 Int in 3 full seasons as a starter.
Hackenberg 6-4 235 big arm Penn State (no help) 56.1% career comp rate, 8318 yrds, 48 Td, 30 Int in 3 full seasons as a starter.

Both came out as 20 year olds, with Hackenberg being a couple weeks younger than Stafford was. Both were 5 star recruits and the top pro style QBs of their class.

It's THE SAME ****ING PLAYER.

You're cherry picking stats again.

Hackenberg's best statistical season was freshman year. Stafford improved a ton from freshman year and put up a really solid season in the SEC junior year. He also had an even bigger arm coming out. There's a reason one of the two was the #1 overall pick while the other probably won't go in the first round.

Junior year stats (through 12 games for Hackenberg):
Stafford: 13 games, 3459 yards, 9.0 Y/A, 61.4% completion, 25 TD's, 10 Int's, 153.5 passer rating
Hackenberg: 12 games, 2386 yards, 6.9 Y/A, 53.3% completion, 16 TD's, 5 Int's, 123.8 passer rating

I'll be the first to support Hackenberg and excuse his play this year for having to deal with a bad supporting cast (he and Goff both had that issue), but by no means is he the same player coming out that Stafford is. Stafford may have the best arm in the NFL. Hackenberg has a great arm, but he's probably 2nd in this draft class behind Cardale Jones in terms of arm strength.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
You're cherry picking stats again.

Hackenberg's best statistical season was freshman year. Stafford improved a ton from freshman year and put up a really solid season in the SEC junior year. He also had an even bigger arm coming out. There's a reason one of the two was the #1 overall pick while the other probably won't go in the first round.

Junior year stats (through 12 games for Hackenberg):
Stafford: 13 games, 3459 yards, 9.0 Y/A, 61.4% completion, 25 TD's, 10 Int's, 153.5 passer rating
Hackenberg: 12 games, 2386 yards, 6.9 Y/A, 53.3% completion, 16 TD's, 5 Int's, 123.8 passer rating

I'll be the first to support Hackenberg and excuse his play this year for having to deal with a bad supporting cast (he and Goff both had that issue), but by no means is he the same player coming out that Stafford is. Stafford may have the best arm in the NFL. Hackenberg has a great arm, but he's probably 2nd in this draft class behind Cardale Jones in terms of arm strength.

Goff has 3 former offensive teammates playing well in the NFL already, Keenan Allen, Richard Rogers, and Brian Schwenke, with a couple more future possibles. I don't think he had it that tough. Gabbert only had one offensive teammate drafted from the two seasons he started at Mizzou, Michael Egnew, who washed out of the league with 7 career catches.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
You're cherry picking stats again.

Hackenberg's best statistical season was freshman year. Stafford improved a ton from freshman year and put up a really solid season in the SEC junior year. He also had an even bigger arm coming out. There's a reason one of the two was the #1 overall pick while the other probably won't go in the first round.

Junior year stats (through 12 games for Hackenberg):
Stafford: 13 games, 3459 yards, 9.0 Y/A, 61.4% completion, 25 TD's, 10 Int's, 153.5 passer rating
Hackenberg: 12 games, 2386 yards, 6.9 Y/A, 53.3% completion, 16 TD's, 5 Int's, 123.8 passer rating

I'm "cherry picking stats", then you reduce the players' careers to one four month stretch that favors your guy? O.K.

Originally posted by GreatGabbert:
Goff has 3 former offensive teammates playing well in the NFL already, Keenan Allen, Richard Rogers, and Brian Schwenke, with a couple more future possibles. I don't think he had it that tough. Gabbert only had one offensive teammate drafted from the two seasons he started at Mizzou, Michael Egnew, who washed out of the league with 7 career catches.

Goff only had Allen and Schwenke for one year as a freshman and Rodgers as a freshman and sophomore. He had his best season this year with a terrible supporting cast. Their top RB ran for 539 yards and their offensive line is horrible. Kenny Lawler may be the only other offensive player drafted if he comes out this year and only had 583 yards but will get drafted based on his potential. Treggs led the team with 813 receiving yards and is ranked 52nd in the class. Gabbert didn't have a great roster either, but his numbers weren't close to Goff's.

Gabbert also had Danario Alexander for two years who was a solid college WR, but went undrafted due to an injury in 2010 and is out of the league right now because of knee injuries, not because he wasn't talented. Alexander had 1781 yards in 2009 and both he and Egnew were better than anyone Goff is throwing to this year. Alexander was a first team All-American his senior year. Alexander was a heck of a college WR and the only reason he was not drafted was that he got hurt the week of the senior bowl and had to have surgery in February and teams knew he had bad knees. That has nothing to do with how he played in 2010 when he was an All American, but you're trying to pretend he wasn't any good because he wasn't drafted and injuries have held him back in the NFL.

Treggs ranked 52nd among WR's:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=125548&draftyear=2016&genpos=WR

Danario Alexander's career:
http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2014/3/24/5541880/the-curious-case-of-chargers-wr-danario-alexander


Tim Barnes from Missouri is the starting C for the Rams. He was a potential late round pick and has turned out to be a decent player. Schwenke was a little better coming out, but was still only a 4th round pick. Goff had a better supporting cast as a freshman, but I don't agree that he had a better cast as a sophomore or junior. And his numbers got way better after Schwenke and Allen left (had a huge jump from freshman year to sophomore year) and continued to get better when Rodgers left and his cast got even worse.

Gabbert's sophomore year: Alexander (1781 yards, first team All-American), Tim Barnes (ranked 7th best C in 2011 draft class, now a starter), Egnew (3rd round pick)
Goff's sophomore year: Rodgers (3rd round pick), Lawler (possible 3rd round pick, but not a great college WR)

Rodgers was the only offensive player drafted from Cal last year and Goff and Lawler will likely be the only Cal players drafted this year. That's not a great supporting cast.

Only 2 players from Cal drafted last year, one on offense:
http://www.calbears.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209493806