RB Leonard Fournette

Originally posted by genus49:
I'm honestly confused by your point...who should Houston have drafted instead of Clowney? Bortles? Watkins?

The year they drafted Clowney they were 7th in points allowed and 24th in yards allowed. This past season was the first year they were actually #1 D in points allowed and that was with Watt being injured. I would say if Watt was healthy along with Clowney we don't know what happens vs the Pats or if they even have to play on the road.

Their biggest issue was easily the QB position and nobody here will deny that it starts with that in terms of need and impact. If we take a QB at #2 i don't think anyone can(or should) complain given the HC we have in place. RB at #2 is a totally different story.

Mike Evans, Odell Beckham if you just dug a little deeper. Hell Bottles with an offensive mind like O'Brien may not be a bad pick. Someone who can reign his to's. Yes, you're right that Clowney helped due to a freak injury to Watt but you're not drafting #1 for that. When Watt is healthy they're forced to play Clowney at de where he's barely even a factor.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

One way to look at it. You add Bush to Hou's already explosive offense it could of been the difference. You take away Reggie from NO I bet you they lose 1 of those games obviously that can't be proven though. He does things Thomas can't. Brees was obviously the driving force but at offense that's going to be the case 99 out of 100 times. Is our plan to neglect the qb spot forever? Did we add Shanny to run a bottom 5 offense because I doubt that's what we signed up for.

Well that's all what ifs and really a bunch of nothing to go off of...Thomas did more than he did in the playoffs that's a fact. Go ahead and try to justify bush with return yards but that doesn't equal being the 2nd overall pick in a draft when you get the same rssults from a UDFA. He simply wasn't worth the pick like most early rd RBs (unless their a RB away from being a SB squad which we aren't).

I do remember Steve Slaton running for 1,300 yards Kyle's first yr as OC in Texas. He was a 3rd rd RB and bush never ran for that many yards in one yr. Our HC can take mid-level RBs and make them top end, so I see little reason to not let him continue to doing that.

This is his first off season as a HC, so if they don't draft a qb at two I wouldn't say they're neglecting anything lol. There's simply better players available at other important positions of need.

They will most likely draft offense at some point I doubt it's gonna be at two...good thing we got 9 other picks

Pierre Thomas isnt known for his playoff heroics but instead for being knocked out cold by my boy Whitner.. hahaha

That was legendary footage, especially the way Whitner walked off after that train wreck like BOSS...Dam...good ol winning days

Originally posted by FrozeReactionZ:

Pierre Thomas isnt known for his playoff heroics but for being knocked out cold by my boy Whitner.. hahaha

That was legendary footage, especially the way Whitner walked off after that train wreck...Dam...good ol winning days

That was the greatest thing ever. His play made the statement. I honestly didn't think I would see things like that in the NFL anymore without it being flagged.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Mike Evans, Odell Beckham if you just dug a little deeper. Hell Bottles with an offensive mind like O'Brien may not be a bad pick. Someone who can reign his to's. Yes, you're right that Clowney helped due to a freak injury to Watt but you're not drafting #1 for that. When Watt is healthy they're forced to play Clowney at de where he's barely even a factor.

Pretty sure they had Hopkins and there's a lot of captain hindsight saying they should have drafted a WR at one lol. Clowney was a no brainer pick mix like Myles this yr.

How many playoff games have TB won with Evans? The Giants have had one winning season since OBJ was drafted and no playoff wins. Texans have one losing season, made the playoffs twice, and one a game in the playoffs.

Texans are putting him back on DE after this season

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Mike Evans, Odell Beckham if you just dug a little deeper. Hell Bottles with an offensive mind like O'Brien may not be a bad pick. Someone who can reign his to's. Yes, you're right that Clowney helped due to a freak injury to Watt but you're not drafting #1 for that. When Watt is healthy they're forced to play Clowney at de where he's barely even a factor.

Because DeAndre Hopkins is a bad WR? Who they drafted the year prior btw.

Do you also get to redo every draft with hindsight? Watkins was #1 WR by most people so why would they draft Evans or OBJ over him suddenly?

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Well that's all what ifs and really a bunch of nothing to go off of...Thomas did more than he did in the playoffs that's a fact. Go ahead and try to justify bush with return yards but that doesn't equal being the 2nd overall pick in a draft when you get the same rssults from a UDFA. He simply wasn't worth the pick like most early rd RBs (unless their a RB away from being a SB squad which we aren't).
I
I do remember Steve Slaton running for 1,300 yards Kyle's first yr as OC in Texas. He was a 3rd rd RB and bush never ran for that many yards in one yr. Our HC can take mid-level RBs and make them top end, so I see little reason to not let him continue to doing that.

This is his first off season as a HC, so if they don't draft a qb at two I wouldn't say they're neglecting anything lol. There's simply better players available at other important positions of need.

They will most likely draft offense at some point I doubt it's gonna be at two...good thing we got 9 other picks

You have proof rb's have a higher chance at busting or is that just your opinion because AP, Elliott, Lynch. Yeah they don't all bust. Bush was in between not a bust not a home run but he still had 250 receptions his 1st 4 years in NO and was a moderate part of their success. I agree with the mid round rb stuff though but I couldn't give a crap about our 5th round picks with a 2% chance at landing at any position besides rb.

Originally posted by FrozeReactionZ:

Pierre Thomas isnt known for his playoff heroics but instead for being knocked out cold by my boy Whitner.. hahaha

That was legendary footage, especially the way Whitner walked off after that train wreck like BOSS...Dam...good ol winning days

While that was bad ass...when they won the super bowl he was more of a factor then their #2 overall pick and had produced more than bush overall thar season.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Pretty sure they had Hopkins and there's a lot of captain hindsight saying they should have drafted a WR at one lol. Clowney was a no brainer pick mix like Myles this yr.

How many playoff games have TB won with Evans? The Giants have had one winning season since OBJ was drafted and no playoff wins. Texans have one losing season, made the playoffs twice, and one a game in the playoffs.

Texans are putting him back on DE after this season

Do the Bucs have a great d? No. Btw they have the best 3 tech in football too so I guess we shouldn't pick Thomas because McCoy doesn't carry sh either.

Hou has a great d with or without Clowney. They have a sh o though and you don't win without balance.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Not negating just saying they got just as much or if not more out of a UDFA.

Bush had 117 rushing yards and 95 rec yards in that 2009 playoff

Thomas had 143 yards rushing and 111 rec in the same 2009 playoffs.

Mario Williams has nothing to do with anything... but I'll take a 4 time pro-bowler and a all-pro vs what bush has done and I think most would agree.

Bush won his ring because of drew Brees not the other way around.

One way to look at it. You add Bush to Hou's already explosive offense it could of been the difference. You take away Reggie from NO I bet you they lose 1 of those games obviously that can't be proven though. He does things Thomas can't. Brees was obviously the driving force but at offense that's going to be the case 99 out of 100 times. Is our plan to neglect the qb spot forever? Did we add Shanny to run a bottom 5 offense because I doubt that's what we signed up for.

Hey, it's only one draft pick. Do you want Fournette or a QB? Can't address both positions with a single pick. And unless he is going to be fired after the season, we have time to build this.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
You have proof rb's have a higher chance at busting or is that just your opinion because AP, Elliott, Lynch. Yeah they don't all bust. Bush was in between not a bust not a home run but he still had 250 receptions his 1st 4 years in NO and was a moderate part of their success. I agree with the mid round rb stuff though but I couldn't give a crap about our 5th round picks with a 2% chance at landing at any position besides rb.

Well I've already told you over and over that there's only one 1st rd RB on the top 10 rushing list from last yr..but I guess that doesn't matter.

Let's look at the RBs drafted in the first the past 10 yrs. (bold are top five picks)

Ezekiel Elliott
Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon
Trent Richardson,Doug Martin,David Wilson
Mark Ingram
C.J. Spiller,Ryan Mathews,Jahvid Best
Knowshon Moreno,Donald Brown, Beanie Wells
Darren McFadden,Jonathan Stewart,Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson
Adrian Peterson,Marshawn Lynch

WOW there are a ton of amazing RBs in the bunch RBs that were good for a couple seasons then went on to do a bunch of s**t....because that's what the position is. Yes please can we draft a RB at two cause their just such an amazing track record of HOFs there.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Hey, it's only one draft pick. Do you want Fournette or a QB? Can't address both positions with a single pick. And unless he is going to be fired after the season, we have time to build this.

I'd be shocked if we took LF because he's not a great scheme fit for Shanny. Personnel wise we're still built for the power run on the line, having 2 great blocking te's, and a good fullback so if Shanny was for some reason changing it up I'd be open to it because it may work but it's a mystery why the rumors of us wanting him keep popping up due to all of the legit points you guys have brought up. If we had McD I think he'd be a great selection and well worth the pick with Shanny I'd pass. It's just the rumors keep popping up so it makes me wonder what's going on there. Smoke screen or legit?

I want a qb. Mitch would be my selection but it's the opposite there. Every report is saying Shanny doesn't. So at the end of the day it doesn't matter.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Well I've already told you over and over that there's only one 1st rd RB on the top 10 rushing list from last yr..but I guess that doesn't matter.

Let's look at the RBs drafted in the first the past 10 yrs. (bold are top five picks)

Ezekiel Elliott
Todd Gurley, Melvin Gordon
Trent Richardson,Doug Martin,David Wilson
Mark Ingram
C.J. Spiller,Ryan Mathews,Jahvid Best
Knowshon Moreno,Donald Brown, Beanie Wells
Darren McFadden,Jonathan Stewart,Felix Jones, Rashard Mendenhall, Chris Johnson
Adrian Peterson,Marshawn Lynch

WOW there are ton of amazing RBs in the bunch RBs that were good for a couple seasons then went on to do a bunch of s**t....because that's what the position is. Yes please can we draft a RB at two cause their just such an amazing track record of HOFs there.

Every position has a 50% bust rate and with rb's there's a lot less of them going in the 1st. It has been devalued but that list contains plenty of Pro Bowlers too.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
This post reminds me of

Not to say that the Texans have the next LT or Reggie White on their hands, but I totally understand the Clowney pick. When you have a guy that can dominate any player in the league one-on-one and add another player that can potentially dominate one-on-one, it makes it virtually impossible to double team. Some coaches can see that. It's the reason the Texans took Clowney. It is the reason the Vikings took Randy Moss, despite already having Cris Carter and Jake Reed, arguably the best starting WR combo at the time.

Adding a player like Thomas helps everyone on the D-line and almost ensures one of those guys will be one-on-one every play. I think with Kyle Shanahan's play calling, and the players we have added in FA (Garcon, Williams) and the players we already have (McDonald, Hyde, Kerley), we will look competent on offense. Not good or great, but competent. Add in a running back later in the draft and we may have something that can be average. Can you say the same for defense, even if everyone is fully healthy? Truth is, in spite of us taking defense in the first round the last 4 years of the draft, I have more confidence in the offense to look competent than the defense to do the same, particularly with Kyle Shanahan calling the plays.

If someone is dead set on taking skill players on offense, a trade down a picking up Williams/Davis and then a trade up to take McCaffrey makes a lot more sense than going with Fournette at 2.

Moss is a little different because he fell so far. The odds of hitting there is a lot smaller to pass on Moss. I was praying he'd fall to us that year. Overall though I heard those same arguments for Chip last year. He's an offensive genius, the best play caller in the game the o has to improve. It doesn't work that way. Garcon is a moderate improvement over Smith but the rest is camp fodder or a fullback which is the most irrelvant position in the NFL. Shanny's rankings over his career speak for itself here he needs talent. He's only ran offenses working with guys like Julio, Andre minus 1 out of 4 years in Wsh. I'm not saying LF at 2 but this is one of those drafts where we may spend the top 4 picks on d and again watch elite offensive guys slip by.

1. The fullback is not irrelevant in a WCO.

2. Moss is not different. If they had the number one overall pick I think the Vikings take Moss because he was the best player available in the draft (based on the information available at the time).

3. Shanahan has had at least one top 10 offense and every stop except for Cleveland, because well, it's Cleveland.

4. Of course he needs offensive talent. No one is saying he doesn't. But I don't think it's crazy to say if we took the field with our team as is, we should have more faith in Shanahan as an OC than Saleh as a DC. No one is expecting a top 10 offense. I'm not expecting top 15 either. But I do expect less predictability. I do expect us to get the ball in the hands of our playmakers. I do expect a QB that will not throw short of the sticks when trying to pick up a first down. I do think Vance McDonald can do some special things based off what we've seen in 2015-2016 from him. I do expect us to actually use Marquise Goodwin as a deep threat to open things up for everyone else. We still won't have a chance to be good until we add another running back, starting caliber receiver, and of course a quarterback. The first need can be filled later. I don't see how that can be denied. Needs 2 or 3 are a matter of priority. Which side of the ball do you prefer the build first (offense or defense), what available picks do we have, and what is the available talent? Based on the available talent, my confidence in our OC as opposed to the DC, I say go heavy defense, add a RB and QB in the 3rd and 4th rounds, and hit offense hard in 2018 including taking a QB again. But hey, different philosophies.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Pretty sure they had Hopkins and there's a lot of captain hindsight saying they should have drafted a WR at one lol. Clowney was a no brainer pick mix like Myles this yr.

How many playoff games have TB won with Evans? The Giants have had one winning season since OBJ was drafted and no playoff wins. Texans have one losing season, made the playoffs twice, and one a game in the playoffs.

Texans are putting him back on DE after this season

Do the Bucs have a great d? No. Btw they have the best 3 tech in football too so I guess we shouldn't pick Thomas because McCoy doesn't carry sh either.

Hou has a great d with or without Clowney. They have a sh o though and you don't win without balance.

Right and they invested a 1st in a WR, RB, and QB yet are ranked 18th overall on offense and didn't make the playoffs. Also I'm not arguing drafting just defense not sure why you're assuming this? We have 10 picks and this draft's best prospects happen to be defensive players...good thing we actually need defensive players because we were bottom of the barrel in INTs, sacks, turnovers, run stopping etc.......FYI McCoy did his part this yr with 7 sacks 2 FF and is a 5x pro-bowler. They were 11 vs the rush in 2015 and 10th overall with Frazier as the DC.

I'd love nothing more than for us to land a FQB IMO there isn't one to be had at two overall.