Film Room Challenge: Kyle Fuller

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Everyone just suddently got on the bandwagon, and I'm really confused about why.

Everyone??

I do not think so. I am not on his bandwagon.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Everyone just suddently got on the bandwagon, and I'm really confused about why.

Everyone??

I do not think so. I am not on his bandwagon.

At one point he was the best/mostly likely CB to be available at #30, so it was reasonable to pick him in a mock draft. CBS has him slotted as the third best CB and a 1/2 rounder.

CBS Top Six CBs
Dennard......1st
Gilbert
Fuller……....1/2nd
Verrett
Roby
Roberson…2nd
Joyner

Walters Top CBs
Dennard......1st
Gilbert
Fuller……....1/2nd
Roby
Verrett……..1/3rd
McGill………..2/3rd
Breeland
Roberson
Baptiste

Sporting News
Dennard...1st
Gilbert
Fuller
Verrett
Desir…………2nd
Roby

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Everyone just suddently got on the bandwagon, and I'm really confused about why.

Everyone??

I do not think so. I am not on his bandwagon.

At one point he was the best/mostly likely CB to be available at #30, so it was reasonable to pick him in a mock draft. CBS has him slotted as the third best CB and a 1/2 rounder.

I am not on his bandwagon, but he may be the best cornerback that is available when we pick at 30.

I understand that it may be reasonable to take him at 30, but if he is the best cornerback on the board at 30, I am not sure that I would take a cornerback with that pick.

It would depend on who else is still on the board.

Originally posted by buck:
I am not on his bandwagon, but he may be the best cornerback that is available when we pick at 30.

I understand that it may be reasonable to take him at 30, but if he is the best cornerback on the board at 30, I am not sure that I would take a cornerback with that pick.

It would depend on who else is still on the board.

Agree completely! It depends on how the players fall and who is available in other positions of need...or want...or whatever! If a great QB prospect fell to 30 I wouldn't mind them taking him as it would just make for a possible trade next year or the year after.

Baalke may decide Fuller isn't the one and trade up or down for someone he likes. It's what makes the draft so much fun!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by buck:
I am not on his bandwagon, but he may be the best cornerback that is available when we pick at 30.

I understand that it may be reasonable to take him at 30, but if he is the best cornerback on the board at 30, I am not sure that I would take a cornerback with that pick.

It would depend on who else is still on the board.

Agree completely! It depends on how the players fall and who is available in other positions of need...or want...or whatever! If a great QB prospect fell to 30 I wouldn't mind them taking him as it would just make for a possible trade next year or the year after.

Baalke may decide Fuller isn't the one and trade up or down for someone he likes. It's what makes the draft so much fun!

Agree. Fuller looks solid, but unspectacular. I wouldn't mind picking him at #30, but I feel there will be better player available at other positions. It's a matter of balancing need vs. BPA.

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
No input on Fuller? No one wants to debate this prospect?

If you are basing this on that one or 2 plays, I don't see the point with any debate. They all have bad plays here and there. What counts is how many bad plays vs good plays. Fuller has made plenty of great plays on the ball throughout his career so far. But doesn't mean he hasn't been beaten before. They all have. Even professional NFL star players have made horrible plays on the ball. But it's funny when you critique Fuller and Verrett but have nothing bad to say about Roby's weaknessess or bad plays (there are plenty of them to choose from).

Bottomline is, all of these players have talent and potential and they are NOT FINISHED PRODUCTS. Please keep that in mind. I think the real question is "how do these prospects respond with NFL coaching?"

This is exactly what I want to do, is debate these prospects, and if someone can show me his great plays, and how they outweigh the bad ones, maybe I'll see what others do. I've watched every clip of Fuller that's available to the civilian public, I just wanted to do one at a time. If you want to continue this debate and show me what's good about him, I'll happily review another game. It's just that no one has provided any concrete examples. Everyone just suddently got on the bandwagon, and I'm really confused about why.

Roby has his issues, but I also see traits that I really like. I don't really see any special traits with Fuller. I'm not even saying they're not there. I just don't see them. If you see them, please point them out. I would be very happy if there was a good CB prospect available to us in the 1st. It's not like I want to dislike him.

Do I really want to waste my time? Probably not. If you can't see any traits, you probably never will. No big deal. The important thing is the NFL scouts see them. They like his fluid movement. His awareness, his attitude, his athletic ability, his pedigree. They have loved him well before this upcoming draft. They have watched plenty of game tape vs. TV tape. They have interviewed them, they have interviewed their coaches & staff. They do their homework. Doesn't really matter what you or I or anyone else see's.

You may have misunderstood the intent of my thread. I'm not trying to put down a prospect, nor do I have any delusions about having superior info to that of football teams, or think that Baalke is reading this and will take my opinion into account. I'm genuinely interested in the draft process, and came to a draft board, to have a discussion about a prospect and try to learn from someone, or possibly teach someone in the process. A discussion for the purpose of learning. If that to you is a waste of time, that's fine. You're free to not discuss. I also strongly contest the idea that "If you can't see any traits, you probably never will. " I don't ever look at situations like this, and hold the right to adjust my views as more information is presented. If someone is willing to share valuable knowledge that will sway my opinion, great! Someone did this with Moncrief earlier this year. I'm not here to preach illogically ingrained, and inflexible opinions. I was hoping to, for a change, discuss someone based on objective factors, and not random articles/tweets/headlines that people have aggregated from so called "NFL sources."

Originally posted by Hopper:
If you want a real film room challenge. Go back and watch the tape of Roby against Wisconsin. Then come here with a breakdown.

Or the Cal game.

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
This is exactly what I want to do, is debate these prospects, and if someone can show me his great plays, and how they outweigh the bad ones, maybe I'll see what others do. I've watched every clip of Fuller that's available to the civilian public, I just wanted to do one at a time. If you want to continue this debate and show me what's good about him, I'll happily review another game. It's just that no one has provided any concrete examples. Everyone just suddently got on the bandwagon, and I'm really confused about why.

Roby has his issues, but I also see traits that I really like. I don't really see any special traits with Fuller. I'm not even saying they're not there. I just don't see them. If you see them, please point them out. I would be very happy if there was a good CB prospect available to us in the 1st. It's not like I want to dislike him.

"Special traits" are meaningless if they come with a 10 cent brain. Fuller's never looked as bad as Roby did throughout must of this past season. He's not a high upside guy but he's a high basement guy, at worst he looks to be a very solid #2 CB in the NFL and there's nothing wrong with that. Roby has the talent to be a top cornerback but he also is incredibly inconsistent and could just as easily be a massive bust.


People didn't just all of a sudden get on Fuller's bandwagon, there have been posters supporting drafting him for quite awhile, it picked up steam when he went to dinner with Harbaugh. He's a solid around player, capable against the run, solid in man coverage, at times struggles with the deep ball but the numbers show that he's done well in coverage, has been consistent, something that you can't say for other guys. The most difficult thing to do is evaluate someone like Roby. He's got tremendous athleticism, a lot of talent, but you don't know what is going on upstairs and that is scary as heck.


In terms of his consistency Fuller is right up there with Dennard. His passes defensed per attempt is 2nd only to Verrett as well.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
This is exactly what I want to do, is debate these prospects, and if someone can show me his great plays, and how they outweigh the bad ones, maybe I'll see what others do. I've watched every clip of Fuller that's available to the civilian public, I just wanted to do one at a time. If you want to continue this debate and show me what's good about him, I'll happily review another game. It's just that no one has provided any concrete examples. Everyone just suddently got on the bandwagon, and I'm really confused about why.

Roby has his issues, but I also see traits that I really like. I don't really see any special traits with Fuller. I'm not even saying they're not there. I just don't see them. If you see them, please point them out. I would be very happy if there was a good CB prospect available to us in the 1st. It's not like I want to dislike him.

"Special traits" are meaningless if they come with a 10 cent brain. Fuller's never looked as bad as Roby did throughout must of this past season. He's not a high upside guy but he's a high basement guy, at worst he looks to be a very solid #2 CB in the NFL and there's nothing wrong with that. Roby has the talent to be a top cornerback but he also is incredibly inconsistent and could just as easily be a massive bust.


People didn't just all of a sudden get on Fuller's bandwagon, there have been posters supporting drafting him for quite awhile, it picked up steam when he went to dinner with Harbaugh. He's a solid around player, capable against the run, solid in man coverage, at times struggles with the deep ball but the numbers show that he's done well in coverage, has been consistent, something that you can't say for other guys. The most difficult thing to do is evaluate someone like Roby. He's got tremendous athleticism, a lot of talent, but you don't know what is going on upstairs and that is scary as heck.


In terms of his consistency Fuller is right up there with Dennard. His passes defensed per attempt is 2nd only to Verrett as well.

Thanks Phx! Exactly what I was looking for. A quality discussion on the topic. Guess I don't disagree with your assessment. A solid, not great player. Guess I'm more into high ceiling prospects, especially with how many picks we have. I feel that a calculated gamble is the best approach. If you ask me, my top desired player is Odell Beckham. Big Cooks and Benjamin fan also. Roby is in that next tier, but I'm higher on him than most.

he can turn out pretty good or he can be fuller of it

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
Thanks Phx! Exactly what I was looking for. A quality discussion on the topic. Guess I don't disagree with your assessment. A solid, not great player. Guess I'm more into high ceiling prospects, especially with how many picks we have. I feel that a calculated gamble is the best approach. If you ask me, my top desired player is Odell Beckham. Big Cooks and Benjamin fan also. Roby is in that next tier, but I'm higher on him than most.

If Baalke likes Fuller, that's enough for me. He's had a good track record with DB's, if you can get a high quality #2 CB, I don't have an issue with that at all. The only real #1 guy I see, at least an obvious guy is Dennard, I think he can be a top NFL CB, has the makeup, the mentality, the ability for it, just needs to be coached up. Roby's got the athleticism and the ability, I don't see the mentality or the makeup. Verrett has the athleticism, ability and certainly the makeup for it, doesn't have ideal size though. Gilbert has the size, athleticism, mentality, but is too passive at times, tends to lose focus, gets lit up more often than a guy who's looking to be a Top 10 pick rightfully should.


My ideal is still taking Verrett in the 1st round, in terms of being a ballhawk, nobody else touches him. Having that sort of aggressive playmaker in the slot, along with drafted a guy like Breeland, McGill, Watkins..etc, in the late 2nd or 3rd to develop would be a nice foundation for a young group of CB's to go along with Brock and Hit N Run.


If they trade up for a CB, Dennard is the guy I'd like to see, I think he's the real deal, especially if they want to play a more physical style of defense. Teams actually kept going at him, kept picking on him, kept trying to throw at him all season as if his previous performance was a mirage and he never fell apart, he kept playing at the same excellent level, just incredibly consistent, with outstanding awareness. I love that he's improved every single year, he came in as a walk on and has kept moving up the ladder, kept putting the work in. If they had Dennard starting opposite Brock with Watkins in the slot, I'd be pretty damn excited.

Originally posted by VPofCarnage:
I'm recently not crazy about Fuller either. I think he should be a late first to early 2nd round pick. If the Niners took him at 30 that would be the definition of a "C" or "C minus" draft pick IMO. I question his stop & start quickness & his coordination. And I don't know how good he is running with his head turned.

He has long arms & a good burst, so that's why people like him (as they should), but I wouldn't put him in Verrett's class or Roby's class as a prospect.

I care less about Roby, Some say he had injury bugs that nagged him, others don't make mention of that and only say he had a bad year. One thing you can gather is that Roby was schooled by Wisconsin's Jared A and JH personally went to check out Jared.

Fuller has tight coverage and some of the things that OP said he won't be able to get away with is sometimes yes and sometimes no. If you watch film of the CB in the NFL they get into the same as you saw on his vids. Maint thing is he is there in position. One can look at guys like Dieon, he got toasted to. The other thing fans should condider is that a guy like Brock made it and others who you might not think would have, in fact there are zoners that wanted to cut him period at the begining of the year. Imagine what the coaches can do with a talent graded in the first. Which he is. The only question is where is he graded on the niner's board. Hell if the niners can use the picks and get lucky and get Varret and Fuller then maybe take a big chance on Martavius in the later 3rd, I would be very happy

I´m almost 100 percent sure that we will make the transition to play more press coverage. Brock, Culliver, Wright and Cook are all very athletic and excel in press. Morris also showed the ability to do it in college and is very athletic too.

I like Fuller a lot and even took him in my mock but the more tape I watch the more I question his ability to play press coverage. I think he is at his best ( and very good at it ) when facing the action and excels in zone or off man.

And because Verrett was also mentioned in this thread. I feel the same about Verret as I feel about Fuller. His athleticism and football skills are teriffic but I think he excels in zone and off man too.

I dont see either play a lot press at the next level.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Hopper:
If you want a real film room challenge. Go back and watch the tape of Roby against Wisconsin. Then come here with a breakdown.

Or the Cal game.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
"Special traits" are meaningless if they come with a 10 cent brain. Roby has the talent to be a top cornerback but he also is incredibly inconsistent and could just as easily be a massive bust.


The most difficult thing to do is evaluate someone like Roby. He's got tremendous athleticism, a lot of talent, but you don't know what is going on upstairs and that is scary as heck.

Well those comments get the LOL of the week

First off the OP wanted a discussion about Fuller why bring up Roby in the first place ?

Also yes Roby had a down year and the Wisconsin and Cal games showed holes in his game but that does not change the fact that he completely dominated for two years. Over his 3 years he had 132 solo tackles and 41 pass break ups.

I will not go further into my evaluation about Roby cause this thread should be about Fuller but with Ed Donatell as our secondary coach I would jump for joy if Roby comes to San Francisco.

triple post.