my mock draft again...this time, I was sober

Originally posted by communist:
Aikens in the 4th instead of Easley.
Archer instead of Leno in the 5th.

Boom! Would hump your leg if it all went down like that.

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
I'll put it to you this way: which group do you feel better about?

A. Tank Carradine, Tony Jerod-Eddie, and Ian Williams

or

B. Quinton Patton, Jonathan Baldwin, and empty roster spots

This issue isn't about our current depth. The issue is about our future starters.

Justin Smith might only have a year left. He might have more, but we don't know. We need to replace starters at the second most important position in football, DL.

Also, the draft is very deep with WR's that we can easily use as depth.

Originally posted by BrianGO:
This issue isn't about our current depth. The issue is about our future starters.

Justin Smith might only have a year left. He might have more, but we don't know. We need to replace starters at the second most important position in football, DL.

Also, the draft is very deep with WR's that we can easily use as depth.

Justin Smith in my mind is irreplaceable. An all time great and HOF'er. Guy ran a 4.6 coming out of college, and that is they kind of D-lineman I want. A freak of nature.

Originally posted by Garlicboy:

Justin Smith in my mind is irreplaceable. An all time great and HOF'er. Guy ran a 4.6 coming out of college, and that is they kind of D-lineman I want. A freak of nature.

He's not irreplaceable because of his athleticism - he's irreplaceable because of how hard he plays and his natural strength. The 4.64 he ran coming out of college was not an official time from the combine and is probably wrong given his vertical and broad jump weren't that great (34" and 9'9"). He also came into the league at 267 pounds so he probably lost a step when he went up to 285. Tuitt is probably more of an athletic freak than Justin Smith in terms of quickness for his size, but no one plays as hard as Smith did. Smith was freakishly strong for his size, but he's never been that fast.

I like the Tuitt pick if he's available. After watching the pure physicality of the NFC Championship game last season, the key to winning is be physical and that means we've got to trot an aggressive, physical and talented front 7. Tuitt is ideal for the 3-4 and the book is still out on Quinton Dial as well as Tank Carradine.

Given Dial's size and non-existent sack number at college, I would guess that he could replace RayMac rathen than Justin Smith.

Given Dial was a late 5th round draft pick and was not productive in college, I'm not sure we should be counting on him ever being more than a rotational player. We have a lot of bodies competing for roster spots on the defensive line, but it's quantity not quality as far as I know. It's possible the team really likes Dial, but it's difficult to know this as an outsider. Even if they don't like him, they wouldn't reveal this because they wouldn't want to discourage him or reduce his trade value.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
He's not irreplaceable because of his athleticism - he's irreplaceable because of how hard he plays and his natural strength. The 4.64 he ran coming out of college was not an official time from the combine and is probably wrong given his vertical and broad jump weren't that great (34" and 9'9"). He also came into the league at 267 pounds so he probably lost a step when he went up to 285. Tuitt is probably more of an athletic freak than Justin Smith in terms of quickness for his size, but no one plays as hard as Smith did. Smith was freakishly strong for his size, but he's never been that fast.

Not sure how you intepreted Smith's greatness due to speed based on 1 sentence about his crazy 40 time, but good job talking about Justin Smith.

IMHO, I just don't think there is any D-lineman in this draft that can replace a Justin Smith. Like I said, a potential HOF'er, a Defensive player of the year candidate.
And thanks for posting my argument when you wrote about Smith. The type of DE I would search for is Quick, strong and Explosive. Perhaps even light for a 3-4 DE coming out of college ala Tank Carridine and Dominique Easley, but they have physical gifts that you cannot teach. Even Ray McDonald was 275 when he got drafted.

Tuitt is 312. I have my doubts about him containing the QB.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Given Dial was a late 5th round draft pick and was not productive in college, I'm not sure we should be counting on him ever being more than a rotational player. We have a lot of bodies competing for roster spots on the defensive line, but it's quantity not quality as far as I know. It's possible the team really likes Dial, but it's difficult to know this as an outsider. Even if they don't like him, they wouldn't reveal this because they wouldn't want to discourage him or reduce his trade value.

Dial is a Nose tackle, and who cares if he was 5th round pick. He's impressed the 49ers coaching staff and vets like Justin Smith.

http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Justin-Smith-Quinton-Dial-Has-Nastiness-to-Him/0bcbe1d4-e207-4836-be92-44a33aa0cb34

Tuitt is @312 pounds and still fast, that is impressive times impressive.

Originally posted by communist:
Tuitt is @312 pounds and still fast, that is impressive times impressive.

I watched Tuitt. He's good, but he's no Justin Smith. I believe to obtain the same amount of production in the future from the D-line, the other spots need to be upgraded. McDonald's spot and NT.

I'd also prefer a explosive, quick first step strong guy coming out of college in the mold of Justin Smith. Tank fits that profile, and Easley.

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
I'll put it to you this way: which group do you feel better about?

A. Tank Carradine, Tony Jerod-Eddie, and Ian Williams

or

B. Quinton Patton, Jonathan Baldwin, and empty roster spots

This issue isn't about our current depth. The issue is about our future starters.

Justin Smith might only have a year left. He might have more, but we don't know. We need to replace starters at the second most important position in football, DL.

Also, the draft is very deep with WR's that we can easily use as depth.

I agree with all of this. The people who are hell-bent on receiver seem to be stuck on our current receiver issues and looking at 2014 only. But looking at this longterm, I see starting quality receivers well into the 2nd round. All of those guys will NOT be drafted in the first round. We can easy get a future replacement for Boldin and a speed guy after the first round. Taking a guy that can actually start at DE will be huge. I have high hopes for Tank Carradine, but as they like to say, iron sharpens iron, and it shouldn't be considered a done deal that he is the guy to replace Justin Smith. I have no problem with bringing in a starting quality DE to compete for the future starting spot. TJE filled in well, but I see him as a rotational player. After that, there is no one else. I expect by 2015 or definitely 2016, Justin Smith will be gone and who knows where Ray McDonald will be at the time as well.

We can get a starting caliber DE in round one, and a starting caliber CB and WR in rounds 2, and perhaps a future starter at safety in round three. I don't see us missing anything if we we wait on a receiver or DB.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
I agree with all of this. The people who are hell-bent on receiver seem to be stuck on our current receiver issues and looking at 2014 only. But looking at this longterm, I see starting quality receivers well into the 2nd round. All of those guys will NOT be drafted in the first round. We can easy get a future replacement for Boldin and a speed guy after the first round. Taking a guy that can actually start at DE will be huge. I have high hopes for Tank Carradine, but as they like to say, iron sharpens iron, and it shouldn't be considered a done deal that he is the guy to replace Justin Smith. I have no problem with bringing in a starting quality DE to compete for the future starting spot. TJE filled in well, but I see him as a rotational player. After that, there is no one else. I expect by 2015 or definitely 2016, Justin Smith will be gone and who knows where Ray McDonald will be at the time as well.

We can get a starting caliber DE in round one, and a starting caliber CB and WR in rounds 2, and perhaps a future starter at safety in round three. I don't see us missing anything if we we wait on a receiver or DB.

I agree, but back-ups on the D-line are extremely important as well. Justin Smith was hurt during the 2012 playoffs in huge part due to lack of rest.

Tank, TJE, Dobbs, Dial, Willams and outside chance of Lawrence Okoye rotating in on the D-line will keep the line fresh through the playoffs

Tony Jerod Eddie is only 23 years old! Lots of room for growth.
Lawrence Okoye is only 22. An Olympian at 19, this guy won't be fazed by the big moment.
Dobbs is not as young, but he is still only 26 and could be replaced by Okoye, draft pick, UDFA or veteran.

Originally posted by Garlicboy:
I agree, but back-ups on the D-line are extremely important as well. Justin Smith was hurt during the 2012 playoffs in huge part due to lack of rest.

Tank, TJE, Dobbs, Dial, Willams and outside chance of Lawrence Okoye rotating in on the D-line will keep the line fresh through the playoffs

Tony Jerod Eddie is only 23 years old! Lots of room for growth.
Lawrence Okoye is only 22. An Olympian at 19, this guy won't be fazed by the big moment.
Dobbs is not as young, but he is still only 26 and could be replaced by Okoye, draft pick, UDFA or veteran.

Until he does something of merit, there should be a forum rule prohibiting people bringing up a guy who has never until last year played football in his entire life. The odds of Okoye making the roster aren't great, the odds of Okoye ever being a consistent contributor are even worse. He's got tremendous athletic potential but still has a long way to go, I think it'd be foolish to count on him as anything more than a practice squad tackling dummy at this point.