MadDog's Niners Draft Grade and Analysis for 2012 NFL Draft | Page 48

MadDog49er · 2012-04-29T11:16:56-07:00

Well, another draft comes and goes and time will tell who are the big winners and losers from this weekend. The Niners tried an unconventional approach this year, which may end working out well, or flopping. Once again, a few years down the road, a clear picture of the strength of this draft will emerge. There are many ways to approach my analysis. At first glance, I thought an incomplete grade is warranted. The addition of a third round pick next year, via trade, does add some merit to this draft class. The later rounds won't have the same impact in the grade, but any additional pick is an additional pick. However, going the incomplete route is a cop-out, since this is all fun and games. So, here it is: Round One- AJ Jenkins- A bit surprised with the pick. However, in the last days before the draft, the Rams were all over him, and I almost put him at 33 on my big board. I thought they wanted J. Jenkins more and had AJ after him. Jenkins was the 7th WR on my board, and the 4th taken overall. I think he is a good player, not a great player. To me, he is a solid number two WR in the NFL, but this is not going to happen until year 3. Expect very little impact in 2012. Smooth, quick, runs good routes, and productive, despite a lack of quality QB play. Saw a lot of him since I live in Big Ten country. Grade: F. The reason for the grade is more than the player (because to me, Jenkins at 30 is a C+ grade). It is the opportunity to utilize the pick for the best value. And the best value at 30, was to not stay at 30. Great opportunities jump in front of you rarely in the draft, and the Niners passed on a golden one. Due to the nature of needs-based picks, from 6-21, we saw a complete run on defensive players. Only Tannehill at 8, Floyd at 13, and K. Wright at 20 were selected on the offensive side of the ball. At 21, the Bengals traded down so NE could draft Chandler Jones. The next handful of teams on the clock had OL needs, and to me, this was the time to make a move. The Browns, at 22, from all reports, lost out on K. Wright at 20, and could have been a trade partner. The Lions, at 23, needed OL help. The Steelers, at 24, for sure. The Texans, at 26, as well. So, with the top graded interior lineman in possibly a decade sitting on the board at 22, in David DeCastro, the Niners could have picked up one of the best players in the draft, and at great value. It would have cost a third rounder according to the value of trades around the same pick and according to trade value chart. The Niners missed on DeCastro, which would have anchored the right side of the OL for a decade. Round 2- LaMichael James- Quick, shifty RB who can make players miss, and has potential to make big plays on offense. Rotational, third down back, who will probably play 10 snaps per game. And, therein lies the problem. The team is stocked at RB, with Gore, who is a three down back, Hunter, who is a similar back to James, and Brandon Jacobs. James may get his hands on the ball 3-4 times a game, and I just don't think this is good value for a second round selection. The team could have found a similar type player with even more explosiveness in Chris Rainey, about 4 rounds later. Grade: D. Round 3 Traded- Good negotiation by Baalke. The Colts drafted TY Hilton, who is more explosive than James, but they gave up a lot in moving up. A fifth rounder next year and the pick five picks later. Grade- A Round 4- Another great value trade dropping six slots and picking up a 6th this year and 6th next year. The Dolphins saw Lamar Miller on the board. Grade- A Round 4- A third trade in the matter of ten picks. Team gives up pick for a 3rd rounder in 2013. Panthers desperately wanted Frank Alexander, and I don't know why. Great value trade. Grade- A Round 4- Joe Looney- A pretty good pick under the circumstances. I think the team got burnt in the Dolphins trade when the Ravens grabbed Gino Gradkowski, who I think the team was all over. The best of the interior OL are long gone by now, and the team needs a guy who can come in and compete right now for a starting position. Looney has a ton of experience, is savvy, smart, and is technically sound. He will compete for the starting RG spot right away. That is the upside. The downside, Looney doesn't have much upside, and I'm not sure he will ever reach the level of Adam Snyder. A decent value pick because the team desperately needed a body. I had a list of guys graded higher, but I think pick is alright. Grade- B- Round 5- Darius Fleming- Good football player that is athletic, quick, and productive. Not sure how he fits on our team. I speculate the team will shift him inside to ILB, and he will compete for the primary backup role under Bowman. He provides some insurance in case Bowman does not re-sign with the team in the future. The team had greater needs, and there were better players on the board, so this is a head scratcher to me. Grade: D Round 6- Trent Robinson, Michigan State, FS- Home Run. The Niners get a steal in the 6th with a guy I had a late 3rd round grade. One of the best FS prospects in this draft, Robinson can run with WR's, and is not afraid to tackle. Productive, experienced, and solid instincts. Really outstanding pick.Grade: A Round 6- Jason Slowey- Another terrific pick from small school Western Oregon. Slowey adds a lot of versatility in this draft, as we will be able to play all three interior line positions, and in an emergency, play tackle. Athletic, tough, and raw. Has much more upside than Looney, and Slowey was on a list of six small school guys I predicted the team would select. Brilliant play for a sixth rounder. Grade: A Round 7- Cam Johnson- Edge OLB rusher, Virginia. Johnson is an enigma. Great athletic ability, played in a 3-4 system, has tremendous upside, and is a terrible underachiever. Lacks passion for the game, should be more productive and dominant. Guy with character flaws. However, you are getting second-third round talent in the 7th round, and if he can get his head on straight, becomes a terrific value pick. Could be starting material on another 3-4 team. Grade: A So, as you can see, this is a complicated grade, with the variable of additional productive players next year. In most drafts, the greatest focus of the grade is the first two or three picks, and this was the down part of this draft class. Just not enough bang for your buck, and the loss of a potential Pro-Bowl type player in DeCastro because the team did not make the move up. Late rounders and future picks helped the final score below. Final Draft Grade: C As for my draft board, based on my best player available board, in a straight up, no trade draft, I had: Round One- Peter Konz, C/G Round Two- Mohamed Sanu, WR Round Three- Brandon Thompson, NT Round Four- Malik Jackson, DE Round Five- Vick Ballard, RB Round Six- Antonio Allen, SS Round Seven- Derrius Brooks, CB It has been a fun run. I will gladly take all questions, and time permitting as I shift from this board to real life, I will hopefully get a chance to respond to all. Cheers.

Jul 15, 2018 at 7:40 PM

#706

9ers4eva
Veteran
Posts: 22,378

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
Did Thomas Dimitroff put his chips all on acl players, made a draft class disappear and blew 3 draft classes during a super bowl window? If so than yes.

So he will be to blame for the SB loss if his subsequent drafts after the fact don't work out. Makes perfect logical sense.

Jul 15, 2018 at 7:48 PM

#707

Wu-5Rings
Member
Posts: 12,083

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
Did Thomas Dimitroff put his chips all on acl players, made a draft class disappear and blew 3 draft classes during a super bowl window? If so than yes.

So he will be to blame for the SB loss if his subsequent drafts after the fact don't work out. Makes perfect logical sense.

After the fact??? These false narratives.. Ask around how many times I have been saying Trent is garbage during his tenure for not surrounding Kap with talent. Nice try.

A few of us called the b******t out.

[ Edited by Wu-5Rings on Jul 15, 2018 at 7:54 PM ]

Jul 15, 2018 at 7:58 PM

#708

9ers4eva
Veteran
Posts: 22,378

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
After the fact??? These false narratives.. Ask around how many times I have been saying Trent is garbage during his tenure for not surrounding Kap with talent. Nice try.

A few of us called the b******t out.

You literally make up the argument in your head.

Jul 16, 2018 at 1:54 AM

#709

English
Moderator
Posts: 41,338

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
After the fact??? These false narratives.. Ask around how many times I have been saying Trent is garbage during his tenure for not surrounding Kap with talent. Nice try.

A few of us called the b******t out.

You literally make up the argument in your head.

Moving on, guys, thank you.

Jul 16, 2018 at 4:40 AM

#710

Wu-5Rings
Member
Posts: 12,083

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
After the fact??? These false narratives.. Ask around how many times I have been saying Trent is garbage during his tenure for not surrounding Kap with talent. Nice try.

A few of us called the b******t out.

You literally make up the argument in your head.

"So he will be to blame for the SB loss if his subsequent drafts after the fact don't work out. Makes perfect logical sense."

You know exactly what you are doing.. You are bringing in different scenario's by bringing up different gm's then the spin cycle, insinuating that "after the fact" like I just showed up here last week posting blaming everything on baalke in hindsight conveniently.

Those tactics don't work with me. How about instead of looking for ways to reach and maneuver around the facts, look for ways to accept the facts and this reality as well as accepting 3 straight blown drafts was unacceptable by our gm..

The fact is No other gm had a fixation with injured players but ours. You are looking for ways around the facts, it's transparent.

Accept the facts and stop continuing to make excuses for someone who has decimated this roster. As long as I'm here the facts will be heard, not someone's story or made up bio...

I have tolerated your snarky, lies with spin cycle name calling posts. Accepting the facts is something you yourself have to deal with, I cannot help you with that. Deal with the facts.

[ Edited by Wu-5Rings on Jul 16, 2018 at 5:01 AM ]

Jul 16, 2018 at 5:00 AM

#711

NYniner85
Veteran
Posts: 118,769

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
After the fact??? These false narratives.. Ask around how many times I have been saying Trent is garbage during his tenure for not surrounding Kap with talent. Nice try.

A few of us called the b******t out.

You literally make up the argument in your head.

"So he will be to blame for the SB loss if his subsequent drafts after the fact don't work out. Makes perfect logical sense."

You know exactly what you are doing.. You are bringing in different scenario's by bringing up different gm's then the spin cycle, insinuating that "after the fact" like I just showed up here last week posting blaming everything on baalke in hindsight conveniently.

Those tactics don't work with me. How about instead of looking for ways to reach and maneuver around the facts, look for ways to accept the facts and this reality as well as accepting 3 straight blown drafts was unacceptable by our gm.. No other gm had a fixation with injured players but ours.

Accept the facts and stop continuing to make excuses for someone who has decimated this roster. As long as I'm here the facts will be heard, not someone's story or made up bio...

I have tolerated your snarky, lies with spin cycle name calling posts. Accepting the facts is something you yourself have to deal with, I cannot help you with that. Deal with the facts.

I think end of the day there's plenty of blame to go around...both played a part in what happened.

You can't leave a draft with not a single starter and basically f**k up whole drafts. You cant have a HC and GM not even close to on the same page. There was talent on the team, but it wasn't getting replaced for the future. Imo harbs needed to fire Roman or at least be the playcaller and his stubborn ass didn't.

End of the day Kap didn't progress into a more complete QB. Defenses figured out to play zone on him plain and simple. Take away the RPOs etc.

We had two stubborn dumbasses unwilling to work with each other.

[ Edited by NYniner85 on Jul 16, 2018 at 5:02 AM ]

Jul 16, 2018 at 5:06 AM

#712

Sanfran_chrisco
Veteran
Posts: 33,902

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Coming from the guy who wanted JJ Watt over Aldon Smith, yeah, lost your credibility a long time ago. D's and F's for the first 2 picks? lmao

I was still right

Jul 16, 2018 at 5:10 AM

#713

Wu-5Rings
Member
Posts: 12,083

The way it went down is what mostly pisses me off. The s**t show was embarrassing. It's more how it went down. We were going to trade away Harbaugh to the browns during a super bowl. the owner going on tv throwing shots, the backstabbing, the think they can do Harbaugh job. The changing the bio. The conspiring for his job.

It's the manner we handled it was embarrassing. It was 1st grade all over.

It's a duo and if one fails to help, then you have to call it out. If the players didn't perform. Harbaugh was f**ked..

Tough position to be put in. So because he couldn't make Aj jenkins a player, he sucked? The rest of the league couldn't do anything with him. You work with what you got and we didn't replenish. Imho

We gave power to the players.. If a starter under performs.. Harbaugh is f**ked because there is no replacement thus working with what you got. You back Harbaugh up with no bench then complain about scheming???

I would strongly feel setup and angry. Harbaugh can be a a a*****e for sure, if that's what people wana hear, he isn't perfect but why would you set up you're coach for failure? Then blame him for working with what he has in regards to scheme.

[ Edited by Wu-5Rings on Jul 16, 2018 at 6:47 AM ]

Jul 16, 2018 at 6:46 AM

#714

NYniner85
Veteran
Posts: 118,769

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
The way it went down is what mostly pisses me off. The s**t show was embarrassing. It's more how it went down. We were going to trade away Harbaugh to the browns during a super bowl. the owner going on tv throwing shots, the backstabbing, the think they can do Harbaugh job. The changing the bio. The conspiring for his job.

It's the manner we handled it was embarrassing. It was 1st grade all over.

It's a duo and if one fails to help, then you have to call it out. If the players didn't perform. Harbaugh was f**ked..

Tough position to be put in. So because he couldn't make Aj jenkins a player, he sucked? He work with what you got and we didn't replenish. Imho

We gave power to the players.. If a starter under performs.. Harbaugh is f**ked because there is no replacement thus working with what you got. You back Harbaugh up with no bench then complain about scheming???

Yeah it was a s**t show all around...both from the HC and the FO IMO.

You're being a bit bias with Harbs because of where he coaches now

Also every single pick made by Baalke wasn't all Baalke. Harbs loved him some LMJ, he was on record with loving Vance McDonald. Vic was a Aaron Lynch fan (hence him being a Bear now) etc.

Baalke drafted poorly and from everything reported didn't work well with the coaching staff, Jim's passing offense was stone-age, Roman was a horrible OC and needed to be pushed down to running specialist or some s**t, I didn't see a ton of development from our players, which end of the day falls on the coaching staff (Kap didn't develop as a passer) etc....I'd take Jim over Baalke any day, but I don't think his coaching style was sustainable in the NFL much better college coach.

Like I said plenty of blame to go around...I'm happy were this team is heading, who's calling the plays, and drafting the players.

Jul 16, 2018 at 6:52 AM

#715

Wu-5Rings
Member
Posts: 12,083

If my bias is the rebuttal. How many Keapernick threads have been deleted with me asking over and over and over to surround Keapernick with talent and an offensive line. This isn't knew.. This isn't 20/20 hindsight because Harbaugh is in Michigan.. lol

4 Kap threads or more have been deleted, we can conveniently chalk this up to Wu's bias and end the discussion but it's not that simple and the ones I debated back then knew that. How many debates I had with posters back then.

It's not that simple as Wu's bias when those threads are archived. I like Harbaugh the minute he changed out culture around. He was a west coast guy.

No bias here just calling it how i see it. Truth is I had no association or bias towards Harbaugh at Standford nor San Diego st. So me saying this just because he is in Michigan is not an argument anyone can use.

So really let me know with all the deleted information who is really bias..

[ Edited by Wu-5Rings on Jul 16, 2018 at 7:14 AM ]

Jul 16, 2018 at 7:19 AM

#716

genus49
Moderator
Posts: 27,793

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
It's hard when you cannot use your bench. Do you know a bench is allowed in the nfl?

Did you know you can substitute? 3 blown draft classes... There was no bench to go to... That's the gm's job...

Newflash you can draft players so your starters can take breathers.. BRILLIANT!!

So the #1 root cause of the 9ers losing SuperBowl 47 was lack of depth caused by the 2012 draft?

lol...Wu, come on dude.

This is irrational stuff right there. No arguing Baalke didn't do the job right but his drafting had nothing to do with us losing the SB that year. Hell James was actually contributing that year.

I also think you're changing the narrative.

Trent Baalke was an awful GM - True.
Jim Harbaugh did really good things here - True
Was Jim a better HC than Kyle Shanahan - We'll find out
Would Jim be a brilliant HC & GM - Hard to say but the few personnel moves that had his name all over them or non moves were not great

Jul 16, 2018 at 7:47 AM

#717

genus49
Moderator
Posts: 27,793

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yeah it was a s**t show all around...both from the HC and the FO IMO.

You're being a bit bias with Harbs because of where he coaches now Also every single pick made by Baalke wasn't all Baalke. Harbs loved him some LMJ, he was on record with loving Vance McDonald. Vic was a Aaron Lynch fan (hence him being a Bear now) etc.

Baalke drafted poorly and from everything reported didn't work well with the coaching staff, Jim's passing offense was stone-age, Roman was a horrible OC and needed to be pushed down to running specialist or some s**t, I didn't see a ton of development from our players, which end of the day falls on the coaching staff (Kap didn't develop as a passer) etc....I'd take Jim over Baalke any day, but I don't think his coaching style was sustainable in the NFL much better college coach.

Like I said plenty of blame to go around...I'm happy were this team is heading, who's calling the plays, and drafting the players.

I agree it's definitely a case of two wrongs don't make a right.

Baalke couldn't draft 2012 on outside a handful of depth guys but as good as we were under Harbaugh those 3 years it certainly isn't on Baalke that we didn't close out with at least one SB ring.

There's no way anyone can convince me we weren't the more talented team in 2012. And defensive depth had nothing to do with us taking a 21-6 halftime deficit or 28-6 right after halftime. Unless somehow the starters were tired before the game started?

Plus if you want to give Baalke hell for the depth then how about the starters?

Guys he drafted or signed on that SB team

Aldon Smith
Navarro Bowman
Carlos Rogers
Donte Whitner
Chris Culliver
re-signed Ray McDonald to be the starter opposite Justin

On offense it was Mike Iupati, Anthony Davis and Colin Kaepernick - who do you blame for that one btw? Either Baalke sucked at drafting or Harbaugh wasn't a QB guru enough?

It was just a bad situation between the two of them. No guarantee Harbaugh does way better without Baalke. And honestly while it sucked to witness the last few years I'm really excited in the direction of this team and I find it much easier to root for Kyle than Jim with his crazy antics and world is against me attitude.

Jul 16, 2018 at 8:26 AM

#718

9ers4eva
Veteran
Posts: 22,378

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
"So he will be to blame for the SB loss if his subsequent drafts after the fact don't work out. Makes perfect logical sense."

You know exactly what you are doing.. You are bringing in different scenario's by bringing up different gm's then the spin cycle, insinuating that "after the fact" like I just showed up here last week posting blaming everything on baalke in hindsight conveniently.

Those tactics don't work with me. How about instead of looking for ways to reach and maneuver around the facts, look for ways to accept the facts and this reality as well as accepting 3 straight blown drafts was unacceptable by our gm..

The fact is No other gm had a fixation with injured players but ours. You are looking for ways around the facts, it's transparent.

Accept the facts and stop continuing to make excuses for someone who has decimated this roster. As long as I'm here the facts will be heard, not someone's story or made up bio...

I have tolerated your snarky, lies with spin cycle name calling posts. Accepting the facts is something you yourself have to deal with, I cannot help you with that. Deal with the facts.

No what I am saying is drafts AFTER THE FACT have no bearing on the game itself. How Atlanta drafted in the 2017 and 2018 drafts have no bearing on SuperBowl 51. The fact that you blame Baalke subsequent drafts for that game and would blame Dimitroff for SB 51 if he drafts poorly AFTER THE GAME HAS ALREADY BEEN PLAYED shows your bias.

The 2013 and 2014 drafts had NOTHING to do with SB 47. FACT. But since you are so unwilling to criticize Harbaugh for ANYTHING you have to reach to try and blame Baalke for everything. Baalkes sucky drafts in 2013 and 2014 have nothing to do with that loss. Even 2012 didn't matter much because he had a solid #3 WR in Ted Ginn that he chose not to even use. If we won't use Ted Ginn, who is to say he'd have Fangio rotate D lineman in at all to the level you suggest?

[ Edited by 9ers4eva on Jul 16, 2018 at 8:30 AM ]

Jul 16, 2018 at 8:27 AM

#719

NYniner85
Veteran
Posts: 118,769

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:
If my bias is the rebuttal. How many Keapernick threads have been deleted with me asking over and over and over to surround Keapernick with talent and an offensive line. This isn't knew.. This isn't 20/20 hindsight because Harbaugh is in Michigan.. lol

4 Kap threads or more have been deleted, we can conveniently chalk this up to Wu's bias and end the discussion but it's not that simple and the ones I debated back then knew that. How many debates I had with posters back then.

It's not that simple as Wu's bias when those threads are archived. I like Harbaugh the minute he changed out culture around. He was a west coast guy.

No bias here just calling it how i see it. Truth is I had no association or bias towards Harbaugh at Standford nor San Diego st. So me saying this just because he is in Michigan is not an argument anyone can use.

So really let me know with all the deleted information who is really bias..

Dude I'm not trying to rebuttal stuff...and your defending of Harbs without throwing any partial blame is silly, he himself is part of the reason he's not coaching in SF. Dude needs total control and doesn't work well with others, that s**t isn't gonna fly in the NFL. In college? Yup he can do that. His "who's got it better than us" stuff is great for college kids that will be moving on in a couple yrs. Jim talked about bringing the WCO back and from what I saw that was not the case. It was ground and pound with a sub-par pass offense. Always been his M.O, I thought half time adjustments were piss poor and the overall "game plan" week to week was meh.

Would you be going to bat for him (the way you are) if he wasn't currently the HC of Michigan? That's debatable and it's okay. It would be dumb to say he's not a good HC and didn't play a HUGE part in SFs success when here. I think it would also be silly to say he had no part of the bad that happened in SF.

I didn't want him to leave BUT the way he coached IMHO wasn't sustainable in the NFL.

I'd rather have Harbs over Baalke all day...both had issues that lead to the breakup. It's too bad SF couldn't have gotten one SB out of it.

Jul 16, 2018 at 8:32 AM

#720

9ers4eva
Veteran
Posts: 22,378

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Dude I'm not trying to rebuttal stuff...and your defending of Harbs without throwing any partial blame is silly, he himself is part of the reason he's not coaching in SF. Dude needs total control and doesn't work well with others, that s**t isn't gonna fly in the NFL. In college? Yup he can do that. His "who's got it better than us" stuff is great for college kids that will be moving on in a couple yrs. Jim talked about bringing the WCO back and from what I saw that was not the case. It was ground and pound with a sub-par pass offense. Always been his M.O, I thought half time adjustments were piss poor and the overall "game plan" week to week was meh.

Would you be going to bat for him (the way you are) if he wasn't currently the HC of Michigan? That's debatable and it's okay. It would be dumb to say he's not a good HC and didn't play a HUGE part in SFs success when here. I think it would also be silly to say he had no part of the bad that happened in SF.

I didn't want him to leave BUT the way he coached IMHO wasn't sustainable in the NFL.

I'd rather have Harbs over Baalke all day...both had issues that lead to the breakup. It's too bad SF couldn't have gotten one SB out of it.

The right move was to fire BOTH of them. Somehow he's trying to spin it like I am defending Baalke. They BOTH needed to go and I am glad we have a team now that can work on a common vision.