This draft = WINNING not reaching

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Parcells hasn't won a Super Bowl in 21 years, hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 15 years and hasn't had a team win a playoff game in 13 years.

Doesn't mean squat in terms of filling teams with talent. Every team he's gone to in some capacity or another has went from crap to the playoffs within 3 years primarily due to the people he brought in.

Talk about hypocrisy! If he was available this summer when we were deciding on a GM.. over every other candidate available, you(the haters) can honestly tell me you wouldn't have jumped at the chance to land him? We've been trying just to get into the playoffs for how many years?

I guess you have a strange definition of talent because his teams sure haven't sustained success for very long under him.

BP on the Giants - 3 divisional titles, 2 superbowls, 8-3 playoff record, only two losing seasons (first year, and 6-9 during the strike year)... looks successful to me.

BP on the Patriots - within two years got them to 10-6 and their first playoff appearance in 8 years. Took them to a superbowl the next year. Drafted players like Willie McGinest, Ty Law, Ted Johnson, Curtis Martin, Lawyer Milloy, Teddy Bruschi. Wierd wasn't it the Patriot defense that basically won them their first Superbowl??? I'd say he was successful

BP on the Jets - Took a team that went 4-28 in the years previous to his arrival to the playoffs in his first season. Then 12-4 the next season. The season following Testaverde got injured and BP retired again and became an analyst. Successful.

BP on Dallas - Took them from 5-11 to 10-6 and revitalized Quincy Carter's career before he destroyed it with drug use. Leaving him with old qb's past their prime like Testaverde. The emergence and subsequent choking of Romo and TO drama lead him to retire again. Notable Players he drafted during his time at Dallas: Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Terrence Newman, Jason Witten, Marion Barber, Chris Canty, and Jay Ratliff. Leaving the team as the popular pick to win the NFC.

Please pass what your smoking... cause that looks pretty successful to me. He never lucked into a Tom Brady, he was given either aging QB's or unproven talents who end up being choke artists.

He isn't the best at drafting offense, but the dude knows his defense and his board lines up with ours in terms of our defensive players. Lay down the crack pipe and get excited haters!

I'm curious how you can be a Niner hater by hating on Parcells. That kind of baffles me. So if you're comparing Kaep to Favre and I hate on Favre does that too make me a Niner hater? Hating on Parcells is not hating on Baalke or Harbaugh.

I hate Parcells more than any coach in history. Stupid b*stard ruining our 3 peat and killing Joe Montana's career. Then you want me to praise him for rebuilding the Cowboys. Screw that.

Parcells with Belechick >>> Parcells w/o Belechick. 105-54 and a 10-4 playoff record with him. 67-76-1 and a 1-4 playoff record without him. The sub .500 record is excusable. Most of that comes early in his building phases, but the playoff record is another story. Nobody gameplans better than the hoodie.

You can hate Parcells all you want, and I'm not calling you a hater cause you may not like him as a coach/gm/ or pres of football operations, you're a hater cause you hate him and yet can't acknowledge that he is still good at what he does. Also never said Niner hater, just hater in general, big difference.

I hate Kobe Bryant, doesn't mean I can't admit that he was the top player in the league for the better part of this past decade.

Also the Parcells was only good with Bellicheck doesn't really hold much water. Using the same theory you could say that Bellicheck is only good cause he has Brady. Or Peyton was only good when Dungy came in and they stopped choking in the playoffs. Or Dungy was never really that good cause Tampa choked when he was there and only won the SB when he left.

NFL Offices can't win games for their teams, they can only position them to be successful. If Vinatieri misses a couple of those clutch kicks, the ray of sunshine beaming out of Bellichecks a$$ wouldn't be as bright. Both his and Brady's legend was left in the hands of a kicker to decide, not any coach or GM magic.

I think he's good at what he does, I just think he's overrated.

Get off the kicker stuff. Special teams is an important part of football. How can you hold that against a coach? Belechick values special teams and it's paid off for him. You're only as strong as your weakest link and Belechick gets that. Treating all 3 sides with value is being a good GM and a good coach.

You've brought up that Dallas Seattle game a couple of times. When was the last time you saw a team's starting qb as the holder? You don't think that play falls on Parcells? That's not putting your team into a position to be successful.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Parcells hasn't won a Super Bowl in 21 years, hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 15 years and hasn't had a team win a playoff game in 13 years.

Doesn't mean squat in terms of filling teams with talent. Every team he's gone to in some capacity or another has went from crap to the playoffs within 3 years primarily due to the people he brought in.

Talk about hypocrisy! If he was available this summer when we were deciding on a GM.. over every other candidate available, you(the haters) can honestly tell me you wouldn't have jumped at the chance to land him? We've been trying just to get into the playoffs for how many years?

I guess you have a strange definition of talent because his teams sure haven't sustained success for very long under him.

BP on the Giants - 3 divisional titles, 2 superbowls, 8-3 playoff record, only two losing seasons (first year, and 6-9 during the strike year)... looks successful to me.

BP on the Patriots - within two years got them to 10-6 and their first playoff appearance in 8 years. Took them to a superbowl the next year. Drafted players like Willie McGinest, Ty Law, Ted Johnson, Curtis Martin, Lawyer Milloy, Teddy Bruschi. Wierd wasn't it the Patriot defense that basically won them their first Superbowl??? I'd say he was successful

BP on the Jets - Took a team that went 4-28 in the years previous to his arrival to the playoffs in his first season. Then 12-4 the next season. The season following Testaverde got injured and BP retired again and became an analyst. Successful.

BP on Dallas - Took them from 5-11 to 10-6 and revitalized Quincy Carter's career before he destroyed it with drug use. Leaving him with old qb's past their prime like Testaverde. The emergence and subsequent choking of Romo and TO drama lead him to retire again. Notable Players he drafted during his time at Dallas: Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Terrence Newman, Jason Witten, Marion Barber, Chris Canty, and Jay Ratliff. Leaving the team as the popular pick to win the NFC.

Please pass what your smoking... cause that looks pretty successful to me. He never lucked into a Tom Brady, he was given either aging QB's or unproven talents who end up being choke artists.

He isn't the best at drafting offense, but the dude knows his defense and his board lines up with ours in terms of our defensive players. Lay down the crack pipe and get excited haters!

I'm curious how you can be a Niner hater by hating on Parcells. That kind of baffles me. So if you're comparing Kaep to Favre and I hate on Favre does that too make me a Niner hater? Hating on Parcells is not hating on Baalke or Harbaugh.

I hate Parcells more than any coach in history. Stupid b*stard ruining our 3 peat and killing Joe Montana's career. Then you want me to praise him for rebuilding the Cowboys. Screw that.

Parcells with Belechick >>> Parcells w/o Belechick. 105-54 and a 10-4 playoff record with him. 67-76-1 and a 1-4 playoff record without him. The sub .500 record is excusable. Most of that comes early in his building phases, but the playoff record is another story. Nobody gameplans better than the hoodie.

You can hate Parcells all you want, and I'm not calling you a hater cause you may not like him as a coach/gm/ or pres of football operations, you're a hater cause you hate him and yet can't acknowledge that he is still good at what he does. Also never said Niner hater, just hater in general, big difference.

I hate Kobe Bryant, doesn't mean I can't admit that he was the top player in the league for the better part of this past decade.

Also the Parcells was only good with Bellicheck doesn't really hold much water. Using the same theory you could say that Bellicheck is only good cause he has Brady. Or Peyton was only good when Dungy came in and they stopped choking in the playoffs. Or Dungy was never really that good cause Tampa choked when he was there and only won the SB when he left.

NFL Offices can't win games for their teams, they can only position them to be successful. If Vinatieri misses a couple of those clutch kicks, the ray of sunshine beaming out of Bellichecks a$$ wouldn't be as bright. Both his and Brady's legend was left in the hands of a kicker to decide, not any coach or GM magic.

I think he's good at what he does, I just think he's overrated.

Get off the kicker stuff. Special teams is an important part of football. How can you hold that against a coach? Belechick values special teams and it's paid off for him. You're only as strong as your weakest link and Belechick gets that. Treating all 3 sides with value is being a good GM and a good coach.

You've brought up that Dallas Seattle game a couple of times. When was the last time you saw a team's starting qb as the holder? You don't think that play falls on Parcells? That's not putting your team into a position to be successful.

The kicker point is a valid point showing now matter what you do as a team, player or franchise, one play can determine your reputation, but shouldn't take away from your body of work. Just like losing a playoff game shouldn't take away from the season the team had.

And trying to pin Seattle/Dallas on Parcells is a joke. You're right starting QB's aren't holders... but Romo wasn't the starter that year, Bledsoe was. Romo was a 3rd stringer and handled those duties for the previous two years. You would rather have the coach replace a holder who has been there all season and the prior 2 years without incident...on the safest play in football? Romo being a choke artist shouldn't take away from Parcells total rebuild of that team. That play isn't on Parcells, most coaches in the league would of kept Romo there and found a new holder over the offseason.

How many holders have sustained serious injuries on a field goal? Romo had more injury risk trying to lift Jessica Simpson or accepting Whittens piggy back rides than being a holder for a field goal. Also, it's not even Parcells' call, its the special teams coach, and Parcells has the power to overide, but he went with his best chance to cleanly get a field goal off, that involved Romo, he didn't tell Romo to start looking down at the ground before the ball was even in his hands.

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Parcells hasn't won a Super Bowl in 21 years, hasn't been to a Super Bowl in 15 years and hasn't had a team win a playoff game in 13 years.

Doesn't mean squat in terms of filling teams with talent. Every team he's gone to in some capacity or another has went from crap to the playoffs within 3 years primarily due to the people he brought in.

Talk about hypocrisy! If he was available this summer when we were deciding on a GM.. over every other candidate available, you(the haters) can honestly tell me you wouldn't have jumped at the chance to land him? We've been trying just to get into the playoffs for how many years?

I guess you have a strange definition of talent because his teams sure haven't sustained success for very long under him.

BP on the Giants - 3 divisional titles, 2 superbowls, 8-3 playoff record, only two losing seasons (first year, and 6-9 during the strike year)... looks successful to me.

BP on the Patriots - within two years got them to 10-6 and their first playoff appearance in 8 years. Took them to a superbowl the next year. Drafted players like Willie McGinest, Ty Law, Ted Johnson, Curtis Martin, Lawyer Milloy, Teddy Bruschi. Wierd wasn't it the Patriot defense that basically won them their first Superbowl??? I'd say he was successful

BP on the Jets - Took a team that went 4-28 in the years previous to his arrival to the playoffs in his first season. Then 12-4 the next season. The season following Testaverde got injured and BP retired again and became an analyst. Successful.

BP on Dallas - Took them from 5-11 to 10-6 and revitalized Quincy Carter's career before he destroyed it with drug use. Leaving him with old qb's past their prime like Testaverde. The emergence and subsequent choking of Romo and TO drama lead him to retire again. Notable Players he drafted during his time at Dallas: Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears, Terrence Newman, Jason Witten, Marion Barber, Chris Canty, and Jay Ratliff. Leaving the team as the popular pick to win the NFC.

Please pass what your smoking... cause that looks pretty successful to me. He never lucked into a Tom Brady, he was given either aging QB's or unproven talents who end up being choke artists.

He isn't the best at drafting offense, but the dude knows his defense and his board lines up with ours in terms of our defensive players. Lay down the crack pipe and get excited haters!

I'm curious how you can be a Niner hater by hating on Parcells. That kind of baffles me. So if you're comparing Kaep to Favre and I hate on Favre does that too make me a Niner hater? Hating on Parcells is not hating on Baalke or Harbaugh.

I hate Parcells more than any coach in history. Stupid b*stard ruining our 3 peat and killing Joe Montana's career. Then you want me to praise him for rebuilding the Cowboys. Screw that.

Parcells with Belechick >>> Parcells w/o Belechick. 105-54 and a 10-4 playoff record with him. 67-76-1 and a 1-4 playoff record without him. The sub .500 record is excusable. Most of that comes early in his building phases, but the playoff record is another story. Nobody gameplans better than the hoodie.

You can hate Parcells all you want, and I'm not calling you a hater cause you may not like him as a coach/gm/ or pres of football operations, you're a hater cause you hate him and yet can't acknowledge that he is still good at what he does. Also never said Niner hater, just hater in general, big difference.

I hate Kobe Bryant, doesn't mean I can't admit that he was the top player in the league for the better part of this past decade.

Also the Parcells was only good with Bellicheck doesn't really hold much water. Using the same theory you could say that Bellicheck is only good cause he has Brady. Or Peyton was only good when Dungy came in and they stopped choking in the playoffs. Or Dungy was never really that good cause Tampa choked when he was there and only won the SB when he left.

NFL Offices can't win games for their teams, they can only position them to be successful. If Vinatieri misses a couple of those clutch kicks, the ray of sunshine beaming out of Bellichecks a$$ wouldn't be as bright. Both his and Brady's legend was left in the hands of a kicker to decide, not any coach or GM magic.

I think he's good at what he does, I just think he's overrated.

Get off the kicker stuff. Special teams is an important part of football. How can you hold that against a coach? Belechick values special teams and it's paid off for him. You're only as strong as your weakest link and Belechick gets that. Treating all 3 sides with value is being a good GM and a good coach.

You've brought up that Dallas Seattle game a couple of times. When was the last time you saw a team's starting qb as the holder? You don't think that play falls on Parcells? That's not putting your team into a position to be successful.

The kicker point is a valid point showing now matter what you do as a team, player or franchise, one play can determine your reputation, but shouldn't take away from your body of work. Just like losing a playoff game shouldn't take away from the season the team had.

And trying to pin Seattle/Dallas on Parcells is a joke. You're right starting QB's aren't holders... but Romo wasn't the starter that year, Bledsoe was. Romo was a 3rd stringer and handled those duties for the previous two years. You would rather have the coach replace a holder who has been there all season and the prior 2 years without incident...on the safest play in football? Romo being a choke artist shouldn't take away from Parcells total rebuild of that team. That play isn't on Parcells, most coaches in the league would of kept Romo there and found a new holder over the offseason.

How many holders have sustained serious injuries on a field goal? Romo had more injury risk trying to lift Jessica Simpson or accepting Whittens piggy back rides than being a holder for a field goal. Also, it's not even Parcells' call, its the special teams coach, and Parcells has the power to overide, but he went with his best chance to cleanly get a field goal off, that involved Romo, he didn't tell Romo to start looking down at the ground before the ball was even in his hands.

I never implied that he shouldn't be there because of a chance of a injury. I don't know where you got that from, but you weren't even close to my point.

I made that point because Romo's focus was being an effective quarterback. You don't keep your starting qb at holder because that's a focus he's just not going to concern himself with. If you're not prepared you're more susceptible to choking. Parcells absolutely should have gotten a replacement. If you're going to tell me most coaches would have kept him there I want recent examples. I think that's pretty unheard of in today's NFL.

You're living in a fantasy world. The reason people put Tom Brady ahead of Phillip Rivers is because one of those guys has 3 rings while the other has jack squat. Norv Turner is not seen on Belechick's level because his playoff record is crap. It's not their fault Nate Kaeding turns into shankopotamus in the post season, but it what it is.

Originally posted by 5280High:
For the haters who think we've failed at every pick... jump in a failboat.

[ Edited by chico49erfan on May 2, 2011 at 21:23:05 ]

Originally posted by genz22:
Great post! Kaepernick is the best QB in this draft....

Aldon Smith can be a 12 sack a year guy and Chris Culliver is a good fit a nickel back.

i sense sarcasm...

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by TheChozen:

Originally posted by 5280High:
For the haters who think we've failed at every pick... jump in a failboat.

Right now our draft is mimicking a Bill Parcells draft, and no surprise since Baalke is a pupil with Parcells.

Rd1: as explained multiple times we didn't want this pick and got stuck with it, that being said we picked the #2 rated OLB by allot of scouts and even the big Tuna himself... who drafted Ware, Canty, Ratliff and Spears in one draft. He knows his DL/Rush linebackers.

Rd2: Kaepernick. Regardless of your view of boom or bust potential, this is Jim's guy and what every team that was in the bidding for JH when the coaching carousel began was hoping for... a QB coach with a track record of success to select his own QB. We got both, lets be happy and move on. Obviously Stanzi wasn't that impressive if he is still on the board, but allot of fans would be singing a different toon had we waited and just landed him, which in hindsight would now be a reach.

Rd3: Again not sexy to the draftniks, but Parcells and other services had this guy going in round 3. How is that a reach? Oh because Mayock made one 5 second comment after he was drafted only because he didn't fit into Mayock's big board.


Doesn't anyone get that when draftniks get showed up by teams, they are egomaniacs and of course will talk smack??? It's their job to set up a fictitious board (based off the same internet research we do) and then discuss reaches and value picks for television entertainment. They never concede they are wrong, only point to those picks which they got right in the past.

If Mike Mayock was that damn good at evaluating talent, we would be working for a team instead of NFLN.

Amen to that.

People forget these guys GET PAID for their opinions that they sell online and in print so when a team goes against the grain and challenges their credibility, they see dollar signs going out the window.

Have you noticed also that they're all bandwagoneers? Any SB teams making bad picks? Any play-off teams doing something stupid on draft day? NEVER!!! Why? Because they have to sell premium services and lots of print.

Kiper is brilliant. He turned mocking into an INDUSTRY. The people who disagree with Kiper, McShay, and Mayock or even Lombardi are usually are the "guests" analysts. If these guys were as serious as they seem to be about talent eval, they would be working with a team but they don't.

It's far more lucrative to sell your opinion to a largely lay public than it is to a coaching staff/front office.

Bottom line, play on the field is the only thing that will tell.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by TheChozen:

Originally posted by 5280High:
For the haters who think we've failed at every pick... jump in a failboat.

Right now our draft is mimicking a Bill Parcells draft, and no surprise since Baalke is a pupil with Parcells.

Rd1: as explained multiple times we didn't want this pick and got stuck with it, that being said we picked the #2 rated OLB by allot of scouts and even the big Tuna himself... who drafted Ware, Canty, Ratliff and Spears in one draft. He knows his DL/Rush linebackers.

Rd2: Kaepernick. Regardless of your view of boom or bust potential, this is Jim's guy and what every team that was in the bidding for JH when the coaching carousel began was hoping for... a QB coach with a track record of success to select his own QB. We got both, lets be happy and move on. Obviously Stanzi wasn't that impressive if he is still on the board, but allot of fans would be singing a different toon had we waited and just landed him, which in hindsight would now be a reach.

Rd3: Again not sexy to the draftniks, but Parcells and other services had this guy going in round 3. How is that a reach? Oh because Mayock made one 5 second comment after he was drafted only because he didn't fit into Mayock's big board.


Doesn't anyone get that when draftniks get showed up by teams, they are egomaniacs and of course will talk smack??? It's their job to set up a fictitious board (based off the same internet research we do) and then discuss reaches and value picks for television entertainment. They never concede they are wrong, only point to those picks which they got right in the past.

If Mike Mayock was that damn good at evaluating talent, we would be working for a team instead of NFLN.

Amen to that.

People forget these guys GET PAID for their opinions that they sell online and in print so when a team goes against the grain and challenges their credibility, they see dollar signs going out the window.

Have you noticed also that they're all bandwagoneers? Any SB teams making bad picks? Any play-off teams doing something stupid on draft day? NEVER!!! Why? Because they have to sell premium services and lots of print.

Kiper is brilliant. He turned mocking into an INDUSTRY. The people who disagree with Kiper, McShay, and Mayock or even Lombardi are usually are the "guests" analysts. If these guys were as serious as they seem to be about talent eval, they would be working with a team but they don't.

It's far more lucrative to sell your opinion to a largely lay public than it is to a coaching staff/front office.

Bottom line, play on the field is the only thing that will tell.

Kiper is brilliant for what he did, but the most brilliant thing was convincing everyone that drafting for need is a legitimate tactic. Its pretty easy to show that drafting bpa will give you a better team in the long run (making certain assumptions, like not drafting a qb in the 1st when you have a good one). However talking about the draft would be boring if every debate ended with: 'well we will just take whoever is bpa'.

What Kiper did was get everyone to talk about their teams position of needs. That leads to endless debate and conjecture.

I don't like this draft because it looks like Baalke had certain positions targeted, not certain players. He went in saying ' we need lb first, qb second, cb third...' and he went out and got those players. theyre not the best players that were available, but they fit the positions they needed.

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Originally posted by 5280High:

Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:
I wouldn't call a "Parcells draft" a great thing. His draft strategy is outdated when compared to today's NFL. Don't believe me, let's look at the Dolphins track record the past few years:

2010- Miami Dolphins

1 28 Jared Odrick DE Penn State
2 40 Koa Misi OLB Utah
3 73 John Jerry G Mississippi
4 119 A.J. Edds LB Iowa
5 145 Nolan Carroll CB Maryland
5 163 Reshad Jones FS Georgia
7 212 Chris McCoy LB Middle Tennessee State
7 252 Austin Spitler LB Ohio State

2009 - Miami Dolphins

1 25 Vontae Davis DB Illinois
2 44 Pat White QB West Virginia
2 61 Sean Smith DB Utah
3 87 Patrick Turner WR USC
4 108 Brian Hartline WR Ohio State
5 161 John Nalbone TE Monmouth (N.J.)
5 165 Chris Clemons DB Clemson
6 181 Andrew Gardner T Georgia Tech
7 214 J.D. Folsom LB Weber State

2008 - Miami Dolphins

1 1 Jake Long T Michigan
2 32 Phillip Merling DE Clemson
2 57 Chad Henne QB Michigan
3 66 Kendall Langford DE Hampton
4 110 Shawn Murphy G Utah State
6 176 Jalen Parmele RB Toledo
6 195 Donald Thomas G Connecticut
6 204 Lex Hilliard RB Montana
7 245 Lionel Dotson DE Arizona

2007 - Miami Dolphins

1 9 Ted Ginn Jr. WR Ohio State
2 40 John Beck QB Brigham Young
2 60 Samson Satele C Hawaii
3 71 Lorenzo Booker RB Florida State
4 108 Paul Soliai DT Utah
6 181 Reagan Mauia FB Hawaii
6 199 Drew Mormino C Central Michigan
7 219 Kelvin Smith LB Syracuse
7 225 Brandon Fields P Michigan State
7 238 Abraham Wright LB Colorado

If you are going to throw away draft picks on non-flashy players, atleast hit on your draft picks. The only real "hits" that I would include are Jake Long (who he passed over Matt Ryan for, which makes this questionable), Vontae Davis (great pick), and Paul Solai. Brian Hartline has been a decent contributer, but when you factor in players that have made next to zero impact, many of which are no longer on the team, he is a terrible draft role model. Look at Pat White, Philip Merling, Lorenzo Booker, Koa Misi, Jared Odrick, Patrick Turner. In just three years, Parcells managed to spend high draft picks in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds on these guys. Often times this involved passing over electric players at positions of need (DeSean Jackson, Matt Ryan, etc.)

If there are any teams we should try to emulate it should be Green Bay, Atlanta, New York Giants/Jets, or New England (teams that have built championship caliber teams through recent drafts and are known for "working the draft").

I don't think he was apart of the 2007 draft, he may have been but when he finally got control he fired Cam Cameron, drafted Henne basically telling Beck he has no future with the Dolphins, and gave up on Ginn as being a #1 receiver. To me that doesn't look like he had much input with those picks.

Anyways, the point of the post when it was made was to calm down the chicken littles flipping out over our first few picks showing them that "hey, our board looks similar a Bill Parcells board" who has a good eye for defensive talent with a proven track record, and a well respected talent evaluator. Then telling those who can't recognize that to put down the crack pipe, to me that's just good advice .

Parcells did not run the 2007 draft. They took Henne in Parcells' frist draft because Parcells hated Beck.

when is Vontae a FA? That would be nice if Vernon convinced his bro to join him in SF.