What do y'all think of Cam Newton?

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

It's really hard to take someone seriously when they attempt to challenge another person's intelligence by calling them "dump".

Why don't you go ahead and bow out of this one now, communist? Do yourself a favor.

Just some friendly advice.

oh, i'm sorry but i am not a native-speaker...let's give u an advice...before u judge someone, you have to be sure that you know enough about him.

funny you should say that....very funny. You really should stop now.

the thing is that i try to stay objective...i dont hate cam, i'd rather take him than mallett. so dont talk to me as if i attack him just for fun or for just ONE mistake in his life...

but you have attacked him, and continue to do so based on allegations with no truth to it.

did i say that he is a son of a b***h or a motherf**ker? basically, i said that i am concerned about his character if i read about his mistakes, even if those are allegiations...

Im not going through the number of pages on here just to prove that you were in fact saying that (not in those words). You are/were acting as if all of this were true. Dont have time with the Niner game coming up.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Its not like VY had character questions coming out....cause he didnt. You can say it now, but not when he was drafted.

yeah but we already know that cam seems to have some character issues...do u wanna overlook them???

Quote:
By the whole team, I am guessing you are reffering to the 7-5 record they had last year. Without Cam I am sure everyone would agree that there would be no way that Auburn is in this position without Cam.

i dont say that auburn would be unbeaten without him but dont forget that they have a guy like fairley in the defense...the thing is if you are red hot, a lot of things will run automatically better.

Quote:
Auburn does very well play an IQ demanding system. Cam has less than a second to decide when he hands it off or keeps it in Gus Malzone's spread run offense. It is a very helpful that he has played in the same O at UofF and at Blinn College.

1.i saw cam waiting for several seconds before throwing a pass in one of the last games...
2.neither at florida nor at auburn he had to learn how to read defenses...so at least in that point, it is NOT very demanding. BUT the thing is that defense-reading is really crucial, imo.

I am willing to overlook the stolen laptop as a young 18 year old kid in another state needing a computer. Again with the cheating in academics, Cam isnt the first, and certainly isnt the last (again we shouldnt have known about this hadn't it been for Florida hating). And with Cams dad, that is his dad, we will never know if Cam was involved. So yes I am willing to overlook it....not saying I want Cam though....depends on what we do in FA, which if the CBA doesent work out, there will be no FA.

Nick Fairly and their D line are fantastic....Auburn sucks on D at every other position for now though. And this is Fairly's 3rd season in playing on the DL (including his senior year in HS). He was a non factor last year, and blew up this year....very impressive btw.

1. In the SEC title game, AU had a pass first philosophy. Of course you saw him waiting for several seconds to throw, because a) he stood in the pocket quite a few times, and b) checked off and waited for other receivers to get open to make a play.
2. In that type of offense, again like I said Cam has less than a second to make his mind to hand it off or take it, or do something else after the snap (when the play is a designed run). This also means by reading the defense. You dont consider that to read the D? When they do audible it is from Malzone, so I guess in that capacity he doesent need to audible because it is done for him.

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

I am willing to overlook the stolen laptop as a young 18 year old kid in another state needing a computer. Again with the cheating in academics, Cam isnt the first, and certainly isnt the last (again we shouldnt have known about this hadn't it been for Florida hating). And with Cams dad, that is his dad, we will never know if Cam was involved. So yes I am willing to overlook it....not saying I want Cam though....depends on what we do in FA, which if the CBA doesent work out, there will be no FA.

Nick Fairly and their D line are fantastic....Auburn sucks on D at every other position for now though. And this is Fairly's 3rd season in playing on the DL (including his senior year in HS). He was a non factor last year, and blew up this year....very impressive btw.

1. In the SEC title game, AU had a pass first philosophy. Of course you saw him waiting for several seconds to throw, because a) he stood in the pocket quite a few times, and b) checked off and waited for other receivers to get open to make a play.
2. In that type of offense, again like I said Cam has less than a second to make his mind to hand it off or take it, or do something else after the snap (when the play is a designed run). This also means by reading the defense. You dont consider that to read the D? When they do audible it is from Malzone, so I guess in that capacity he doesent need to audible because it is done for him.

i have to learn for an exam so i will come back to the other things later/tomorrow...just one question:
do u hate wikileaks?

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

I am willing to overlook the stolen laptop as a young 18 year old kid in another state needing a computer. Again with the cheating in academics, Cam isnt the first, and certainly isnt the last (again we shouldnt have known about this hadn't it been for Florida hating). And with Cams dad, that is his dad, we will never know if Cam was involved. So yes I am willing to overlook it....not saying I want Cam though....depends on what we do in FA, which if the CBA doesent work out, there will be no FA.

Nick Fairly and their D line are fantastic....Auburn sucks on D at every other position for now though. And this is Fairly's 3rd season in playing on the DL (including his senior year in HS). He was a non factor last year, and blew up this year....very impressive btw.

1. In the SEC title game, AU had a pass first philosophy. Of course you saw him waiting for several seconds to throw, because a) he stood in the pocket quite a few times, and b) checked off and waited for other receivers to get open to make a play.
2. In that type of offense, again like I said Cam has less than a second to make his mind to hand it off or take it, or do something else after the snap (when the play is a designed run). This also means by reading the defense. You dont consider that to read the D? When they do audible it is from Malzone, so I guess in that capacity he doesent need to audible because it is done for him.

i have to learn for an exam so i will come back to the other things later/tomorrow...just one question:
do u hate wikileaks?

Why yes. Yes I do.

Originally posted by communist:

no, of course u dont have to ask me whether i am a native-speaker or not...i thought that you wanted to discredit me with that small spelling mistake.
i dont care about the shift key on the internet...i dont even do that in german-speaking boards...only few people care about that.

if a person makes SEVERAL serious mistakes, one can start thinking about his character.

Ah, no... I do not intend to discredit you as a person with intelligence. I had actually assumed that the error was just an accident, like a typo.

I will say that I give you quite a lot of credit for intelligence. The fact that you speak at least three languages is something that I find impressive. I didn't catch what your native language was, but in any case learning a language with a different character set is something that I know from experience is an especially difficult task. What is your native language?

What I was trying to point out is that it is difficult to take your argument seriously if you call a person dumb, but you do not write your posts in an academic fashion. Proper grammar and punctuation do not actually prove or disprove intelligence, but it does create an appearance of hypocrisy to those reading your posts if you do not follow those rules. That is why I asked about your shift key.

You may certainly think about Cam Newton's character because of the news that you have read. I have absolutely no problem with this and have done the same myself. What I do have a problem with is coming to a final conclusion about that person based on those sources.

Now, if you wish to say that it is a risk to trust the judgment of our scouting department and General Manager regarding his past, I can accept that. You have second hand information that leads to questions ("red flags" is the term draft analysts use, I believe... ironic considering your screen name. No offense intended.) and you have to trust people that you do not truly know to make the final judgment about that player and his character. This is completely fair and I can understand that position.

Do you understand the difference between the two stances? Is that reasonable?

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Its not like VY had character questions coming out....cause he didnt. You can say it now, but not when he was drafted.

yeah but we already know that cam seems to have some character issues...do u wanna overlook them???

With the Vince Young thing.. I wouldn't say its a character thing that somehow got over looked... He had great success at Texas... He was probably the most popular person on campus, has the media calling him the next great thing... I'm sure his coaches were telling him the same thing. Then he goes to the NFL and Fisher is an old school coach who wont coddle a player. So what we found out was that when Vince Young doesn't get his love fest he has a hard time handling things. Something that is impossible to know before he was drafted. I'm sure he came off as a great guy in the pre-draft team meetings.

On a side note on Vince Young, he is a winning QB in this league that has been to pro bowls, so its not an issue of talent for him.

We know already cam newton can handle negative attention, he doesn't freak out or play bad, he gets better. When he gets on the field the only thing on his mind is winning.

That is one of the top risks when drafting a QB. Most have great success at college, but how will they handle things when they aren't going there way? We already have somewhat of an idea of how newton will respond.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Its not like VY had character questions coming out....cause he didnt. You can say it now, but not when he was drafted.

yeah but we already know that cam seems to have some character issues...do u wanna overlook them???

With the Vince Young thing.. I wouldn't say its a character thing that somehow got over looked... He had great success at Texas... He was probably the most popular person on campus, has the media calling him the next great thing... I'm sure his coaches were telling him the same thing. Then he goes to the NFL and Fisher is an old school coach who wont coddle a player. So what we found out was that when Vince Young doesn't get his love fest he has a hard time handling things. Something that is impossible to know before he was drafted. I'm sure he came off as a great guy in the pre-draft team meetings.

On a side note on Vince Young, he is a winning QB in this league that has been to pro bowls, so its not an issue of talent for him.

We know already cam newton can handle negative attention, he doesn't freak out or play bad, he gets better. When he gets on the field the only thing on his mind is winning.

That is one of the top risks when drafting a QB. Most have great success at college, but how will they handle things when they aren't going there way? We already have somewhat of an idea of how newton will respond.

That is an EXCELLENT point. Another reason yet to be pointed out. Cam has been AMAZING with all the off the field crap he has had to go through, week in and week out. Very good point Jcool. Cudos.

Quote:
Longtime NFL personnel man Gil Brandt, now working as a draft consultant, called Newton "the most exciting player I can ever remember watching" and said the 6-foot-6, 250-pound quarterback has displayed all the physical skills necessary to be an NFL star.

"I am not an advocate of guys coming out of school early," Brandt said in a recent telephone interview. "But I think that if he does come out of school, I don't think there's any question he'll be selected in the first half of the first round (of the draft) unless there is something physically wrong with him."

"He has excellent accuracy," Brandt said. "I'm amazed at his accuracy whether it be 10 yards down field or 20 yards down field or more. He's got arm strength.

"There is no question he is physically ready."

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/40631135/ns/sports-college_football/

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

You want to know why that it has been made public about Cam cheating? Because, someone at the University of Florida leaked that information which is a fereral crime. Thaat is why Cam is the only one that you have heard about. And that is why you guys are attaking him. Dont be naive to think he is the only one that has done this.

he has done some bulls**t SEVERAL times...if i see a guy, who does bulls**t again and again, then i think that he doesnt learn anything from that. dont u get it? do u wanna have an ignorant QB?

i want a QB who can win football games. i don't care how dumb he is.

but i do, at this position...QBs have to learn the systems and how to read nfl-defenses...i dont think that this is easy for a stupid person. anyone could hold a phd in mathematics...it only depends on the time...

been there done that

cough, cough....Alex Smith....cough, cough

Exhibit A why that philosophy isnt true

How does Alex Smith prove him wrong? Alex understands everything but isn't instinctual and too hesitant. Just about all the good QBs in the league nowadays have a wonderlic of 30 or above; the NFL is just too complex nowadays. The only exception being Vick, and Vick has the best QB people in the league around him that know how to gameplan and playcall better than anyone else in the league.

He asked if we want an ignorant QB....because he is implying like you, that you have to have a smart QB. WELL, we have one of the smartest QBs in the NFL (by one of the highest wonderlic scores ever posted), and where has that got us? Nowhere. That right there proves that just because you have a smart QB, doesnt guarentee success.

Your argument makes no sense. You HAVE to have a smart QB that has good instincts as well. Alex is a smart QB with no instincts. No one is saying that "just because you have a smart QB doesn't guarantee success." This is basic reading comprehension. Being intelligent is simply a prerequisite to being a good, modern QB. Either that, or you have a tremendous coaching staff (like Philly). Look at the top QBs in the league right now, all of them except for Vick has a wonderlic above 30.

You brought up instincts....not the original convo you jumped into. I brought up VY and Bradshaw. in another convo.

My reading comprehension is just fine thank you very much, go take that somewhere else. My argument made sense based on the conversation that was happening before you thought you can throw in an attribute that we were not talking about. Instincts do not come with intellect. As is the case with Alex. K thanks bye!

Do you know what a prerequisite is?

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

You want to know why that it has been made public about Cam cheating? Because, someone at the University of Florida leaked that information which is a fereral crime. Thaat is why Cam is the only one that you have heard about. And that is why you guys are attaking him. Dont be naive to think he is the only one that has done this.

he has done some bulls**t SEVERAL times...if i see a guy, who does bulls**t again and again, then i think that he doesnt learn anything from that. dont u get it? do u wanna have an ignorant QB?

i want a QB who can win football games. i don't care how dumb he is.

but i do, at this position...QBs have to learn the systems and how to read nfl-defenses...i dont think that this is easy for a stupid person. anyone could hold a phd in mathematics...it only depends on the time...

been there done that

cough, cough....Alex Smith....cough, cough

Exhibit A why that philosophy isnt true

How does Alex Smith prove him wrong? Alex understands everything but isn't instinctual and too hesitant. Just about all the good QBs in the league nowadays have a wonderlic of 30 or above; the NFL is just too complex nowadays. The only exception being Vick, and Vick has the best QB people in the league around him that know how to gameplan and playcall better than anyone else in the league.

He asked if we want an ignorant QB....because he is implying like you, that you have to have a smart QB. WELL, we have one of the smartest QBs in the NFL (by one of the highest wonderlic scores ever posted), and where has that got us? Nowhere. That right there proves that just because you have a smart QB, doesnt guarentee success.

Your argument makes no sense. You HAVE to have a smart QB that has good instincts as well. Alex is a smart QB with no instincts. No one is saying that "just because you have a smart QB doesn't guarantee success." This is basic reading comprehension. Being intelligent is simply a prerequisite to being a good, modern QB. Either that, or you have a tremendous coaching staff (like Philly). Look at the top QBs in the league right now, all of them except for Vick has a wonderlic above 30.

You brought up instincts....not the original convo you jumped into. I brought up VY and Bradshaw. in another convo.

My reading comprehension is just fine thank you very much, go take that somewhere else. My argument made sense based on the conversation that was happening before you thought you can throw in an attribute that we were not talking about. Instincts do not come with intellect. As is the case with Alex. K thanks bye!

Do you know what a prerequisite is?

Im not talking about other attributes here or pre-requisites....I am talking about one thing intelligence. Yes it takes more than that to be succesfull, however the topic is about intelligence....you ask about reading comprehension?

Marino, McNabb, and Bradshaw all had the same wonderlic scores as Vince Young, and you know these guys had pretty decent careers. My point again binary, you dont have to be smart to be a successful qb.

Sit this one out dude. If you want to start a topic about prerequisites about how to be a successful qb go ahead. But Im done with you.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Quote:
Longtime NFL personnel man Gil Brandt, now working as a draft consultant, called Newton "the most exciting player I can ever remember watching" and said the 6-foot-6, 250-pound quarterback has displayed all the physical skills necessary to be an NFL star.

"I am not an advocate of guys coming out of school early," Brandt said in a recent telephone interview. "But I think that if he does come out of school, I don't think there's any question he'll be selected in the first half of the first round (of the draft) unless there is something physically wrong with him."

"He has excellent accuracy," Brandt said. "I'm amazed at his accuracy whether it be 10 yards down field or 20 yards down field or more. He's got arm strength.

"There is no question he is physically ready."

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/40631135/ns/sports-college_football/

I kind of agree that physically Cam has all the tools. I just don't know how he translates to the NFL mentally and with technique and everything. A guy like Vince Young had all the tools as well and a lot of athleticism, but he hasn't really panned out. However Cam seems a lot more resillient than VY, and a lot of Vince's problems are in his head. Also, a guy like Jamarcus Russel. Russel was a heck of a bust, but he wasn't picked #1 for no reason. He was a good player in college. I don't know about Cam's work ethic. But if he has a good work ethic and he can learn to read defenses, learn good footwork, etc. he is going to be a good player.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Quote:
Longtime NFL personnel man Gil Brandt, now working as a draft consultant, called Newton "the most exciting player I can ever remember watching" and said the 6-foot-6, 250-pound quarterback has displayed all the physical skills necessary to be an NFL star.

"I am not an advocate of guys coming out of school early," Brandt said in a recent telephone interview. "But I think that if he does come out of school, I don't think there's any question he'll be selected in the first half of the first round (of the draft) unless there is something physically wrong with him."


"He has excellent accuracy," Brandt said. "I'm amazed at his accuracy whether it be 10 yards down field or 20 yards down field or more. He's got arm strength.

"There is no question he is physically ready."

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/40631135/ns/sports-college_football/

I highly respect Mr. Brandt's experience as a talent evaluator. I thought that his accuracy was spot on in that Alabama game especially. I hear conflicting reports on this.

I believe this kid has the "IT" that we all can see. I would love to see him in a Niner uni, but that is just me. If goes off in that National Championship game, his Combine will only solidify his top 10 status.

He will be the Mark Sanchez, who was the one with only one year behind his belt, of the 2011 draft.

I look forward to seeing him this off season.

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

You want to know why that it has been made public about Cam cheating? Because, someone at the University of Florida leaked that information which is a fereral crime. Thaat is why Cam is the only one that you have heard about. And that is why you guys are attaking him. Dont be naive to think he is the only one that has done this.

he has done some bulls**t SEVERAL times...if i see a guy, who does bulls**t again and again, then i think that he doesnt learn anything from that. dont u get it? do u wanna have an ignorant QB?

i want a QB who can win football games. i don't care how dumb he is.

but i do, at this position...QBs have to learn the systems and how to read nfl-defenses...i dont think that this is easy for a stupid person. anyone could hold a phd in mathematics...it only depends on the time...

been there done that

cough, cough....Alex Smith....cough, cough

Exhibit A why that philosophy isnt true

How does Alex Smith prove him wrong? Alex understands everything but isn't instinctual and too hesitant. Just about all the good QBs in the league nowadays have a wonderlic of 30 or above; the NFL is just too complex nowadays. The only exception being Vick, and Vick has the best QB people in the league around him that know how to gameplan and playcall better than anyone else in the league.

He asked if we want an ignorant QB....because he is implying like you, that you have to have a smart QB. WELL, we have one of the smartest QBs in the NFL (by one of the highest wonderlic scores ever posted), and where has that got us? Nowhere. That right there proves that just because you have a smart QB, doesnt guarentee success.

Your argument makes no sense. You HAVE to have a smart QB that has good instincts as well. Alex is a smart QB with no instincts. No one is saying that "just because you have a smart QB doesn't guarantee success." This is basic reading comprehension. Being intelligent is simply a prerequisite to being a good, modern QB. Either that, or you have a tremendous coaching staff (like Philly). Look at the top QBs in the league right now, all of them except for Vick has a wonderlic above 30.

You brought up instincts....not the original convo you jumped into. I brought up VY and Bradshaw. in another convo.

My reading comprehension is just fine thank you very much, go take that somewhere else. My argument made sense based on the conversation that was happening before you thought you can throw in an attribute that we were not talking about. Instincts do not come with intellect. As is the case with Alex. K thanks bye!

Do you know what a prerequisite is?

Im not talking about other attributes here or pre-requisites....I am talking about one thing intelligence. Yes it takes more than that to be succesfull, however the topic is about intelligence....you ask about reading comprehension?

Marino, McNabb, and Bradshaw all had the same wonderlic scores as Vince Young, and you know these guys had pretty decent careers. My point again binary, you dont have to be smart to be a successful qb.

Sit this one out dude. If you want to start a topic about prerequisites about how to be a successful qb go ahead. But Im done with you.

Thanks for posting QBs who are know longer successful or in the league anymore. Try looking at the top QBs in the league RIGHT NOW. They all have wonderlics of 28+, all except for Vick.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Quote:
Longtime NFL personnel man Gil Brandt, now working as a draft consultant, called Newton "the most exciting player I can ever remember watching" and said the 6-foot-6, 250-pound quarterback has displayed all the physical skills necessary to be an NFL star.

"I am not an advocate of guys coming out of school early," Brandt said in a recent telephone interview. "But I think that if he does come out of school, I don't think there's any question he'll be selected in the first half of the first round (of the draft) unless there is something physically wrong with him."

"He has excellent accuracy," Brandt said. "I'm amazed at his accuracy whether it be 10 yards down field or 20 yards down field or more. He's got arm strength.

"There is no question he is physically ready."

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/40631135/ns/sports-college_football/

I kind of agree that physically Cam has all the tools. I just don't know how he translates to the NFL mentally and with technique and everything. A guy like Vince Young had all the tools as well and a lot of athleticism, but he hasn't really panned out. However Cam seems a lot more resillient than VY, and a lot of Vince's problems are in his head. Also, a guy like Jamarcus Russel. Russel was a heck of a bust, but he wasn't picked #1 for no reason. He was a good player in college. I don't know about Cam's work ethic. But if he has a good work ethic and he can learn to read defenses, learn good footwork, etc. he is going to be a good player.

Id say Vince Young has panned out. Is he a great QB? No... Is he a very good QB? I'd says so. His problem isn't that he cant play in the NFL his problem is he got drafted by a team that has a coach that doesn't value the QB position you can look back to Steve "Air" McNair who in the year he went to the Superbowl threw 12 TDs and took nine seasons to throw a career high 24 TDs. So he is on a team that will never allow him the chance to put up big numbers. Also like you said he is not strong mentally, so like i said when he is not getting his love fest, he can not handle that. If he was on Philly he wold be putting up similar numbers to what Vick is doing.

lol@ the notion of Vince Young being a very good QB, someone needs to watch more film.