What do y'all think of Cam Newton?

Originally posted by teeohh:
Besides bradford, he's not established yet. I want to know of another franchise qb.

Roger Staubach 1963
Vinnie Testeverde 1986
Carson Palmer 2002
Sam Bradford 2008

Thats about it. Staubach is truly your only great HOF-Heisman QB. Vinnie had a long career but not a superstar. Neither is Palmer.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Personally I would never take Cam Newton where we will be drafting. Too much risk as an unproven passer and too much risk as an individual who has made mistakes and shown a real lack of maturity. He may be a star in the NFL but its probably going to be for an NFL franchise that can afford to take a risk. That isnt the 49ers.

They released the draft order already?

Obviously we are going to have a top 12 pick. So. I say again. I would never take him where we will be picking. Happy?

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I've got a feeling we have not heard the end of this young man's problems.

First, he was arrested in Florida for stolen property and obstruction of justice and served an intervention program to avoid real jail time.

Second, dude took someone else's paper and submitted it to a professor, who realized it was not his (probably written at too high a level). Then, Cam goes on the internet and buys someone else's paper, and gets caught by the prof a second time. He is scheduled to go before the discipline committee, but decides to get out of town first.

He claims he had no idea what his father (the supposed "holy man" pastor) was doing in auctioning him to the highest bidder. You would have to be insane to buy that he was unaware. Then, he says he is proud of his father. Why not? He obviously believes that he did nothing wrong.

I have worked with children who are just like Cam. They are never truly sorry for their actions when they are caught. They are just sorry they are caught.

Unfortunately, due to FERPA limitations, we will probably never know the full truth about his academic history. My guess, as a former college prof and acamedic advisor, if that he has no other option than to declare going to the pros due to his current gpa. In other words, he would probably declared ineligible for next season.

The defenders of Cam Newton say that it is not a big deal that he broke the law, was academically dishonest, that he violated NCAA rules. I say, if this is what we know, what else do we not know? This guy has zero character, and to hand him tens of millions of dollars. I think I will pass.

i was going to reply to more of your post but as soon as i noticed that i just erased it all....

I just popped into this thread and caught the bold and the reply. I didn't even read the rest of your post, MadDog.

Jcool is absolutely right. You are absolutely wrong.

I have also worked with kids with "problems". I won't say kids "just like Cam" because they do not exist. Cam Newton is Cam Newton. You cannot assume that he will think or behave the same way another person did just because they have similar circumstances. This is not only terrible psychology, this is terrible logic.

I respect jcool for walking away without arguing with you. I will not.

The fact that you have "worked with" kids and had that attitude makes me sick. If you want to argue with me about this issue, prepare for war.

Your opinion disgusts me.

Why do criminals declare their innocence even after all the evidence clearly shows they are guilty? Because they do not sense what they are doing is wrong. The only feelings of sadness or remorse is that they were caught. This is the mindset of career criminals, habitual criminals, people who have a lack of moral development.

The vast majority of students I have worked with do not have this problem. However, there have certainly been numerous children who are much like Cam. They break laws, defy authority, cheat and steal whenever they can, because they do not have good moral judgment. Can this change over time? It is possible. However, some people will never emerge to behave well when no one is looking, take the high road morally, do things in society for others with no selfish interest.

Should we be surprised Cam has behaved this way, since his father was illegally trying to pawn him off to the highest bidder.

Cam Newton is not a good guy, people are "attacking him" because he has been cheating, stealing and lying the last few years and if you don't believe that then I don't know what to tell you ... because it's all out there to see.

I was screaming from the roof tops back in 2004 to draft Aaron Rodgers and everyone who was around me would attest that I was arguing vehemetly that Alex Smith was a bad draft choice and the 49ers would rue not drafting Rodgers and low and behold ....

The pick is about drafting the best guy for your franchise. Luck is the only QB worth a top 10 pick he's not jsut book smart but he runs a pro offense and has to make adjustments all the time ...

And no I wouldn't draft Locker or Mallett either.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I've got a feeling we have not heard the end of this young man's problems.

First, he was arrested in Florida for stolen property and obstruction of justice and served an intervention program to avoid real jail time.

Second, dude took someone else's paper and submitted it to a professor, who realized it was not his (probably written at too high a level). Then, Cam goes on the internet and buys someone else's paper, and gets caught by the prof a second time. He is scheduled to go before the discipline committee, but decides to get out of town first.

He claims he had no idea what his father (the supposed "holy man" pastor) was doing in auctioning him to the highest bidder. You would have to be insane to buy that he was unaware. Then, he says he is proud of his father. Why not? He obviously believes that he did nothing wrong.

I have worked with children who are just like Cam. They are never truly sorry for their actions when they are caught. They are just sorry they are caught.

Unfortunately, due to FERPA limitations, we will probably never know the full truth about his academic history. My guess, as a former college prof and acamedic advisor, if that he has no other option than to declare going to the pros due to his current gpa. In other words, he would probably declared ineligible for next season.

The defenders of Cam Newton say that it is not a big deal that he broke the law, was academically dishonest, that he violated NCAA rules. I say, if this is what we know, what else do we not know? This guy has zero character, and to hand him tens of millions of dollars. I think I will pass.

i was going to reply to more of your post but as soon as i noticed that i just erased it all....

I just popped into this thread and caught the bold and the reply. I didn't even read the rest of your post, MadDog.

Jcool is absolutely right. You are absolutely wrong.

I have also worked with kids with "problems". I won't say kids "just like Cam" because they do not exist. Cam Newton is Cam Newton. You cannot assume that he will think or behave the same way another person did just because they have similar circumstances. This is not only terrible psychology, this is terrible logic.

I respect jcool for walking away without arguing with you. I will not.

The fact that you have "worked with" kids and had that attitude makes me sick. If you want to argue with me about this issue, prepare for war.

Your opinion disgusts me.

Why do criminals declare their innocence even after all the evidence clearly shows they are guilty? Because they do not sense what they are doing is wrong. The only feelings of sadness or remorse is that they were caught. This is the mindset of career criminals, habitual criminals, people who have a lack of moral development.

The vast majority of students I have worked with do not have this problem. However, there have certainly been numerous children who are much like Cam. They break laws, defy authority, cheat and steal whenever they can, because they do not have good moral judgment. Can this change over time? It is possible. However, some people will never emerge to behave well when no one is looking, take the high road morally, do things in society for others with no selfish interest.

Should we be surprised Cam has behaved this way, since his father was illegally trying to pawn him off to the highest bidder.

you are really stretching the allegations against Newton into something completely different.

Also, his father "pawning him off" to a program might be illegal by the rules of the FBS, but it is only immoral if you ignore the fact that the FBS makes billions of dollars every year off the efforts of kids like Newton, who work well below their market value, if you consider the "education" they are receiving as actual compensation. What Newton's dad did might be technically wrong, and totally shady, and is certainly unbecoming of a reverend, but I have a hard time getting riled up about it, and am not sure what it has to do with Newton's ability as a football player.

Originally posted by SourdoughDan:
He is such an impressive athlete and while I think his arm and body are NFL ready, the mental aspect of his game will likely take a couple years to develop. I wouldn't be shocked if he were drafted high on his potential alone though.

Awesome physical specimen.

I question his character and desire to be a team player. Does he have the mental discipline required to be a top NFL QB?

I'd pick him - cause, if he doesn't make it as a QB, you got a LB. This guy is huge, quick, and loves contact.

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

You want to know why that it has been made public about Cam cheating? Because, someone at the University of Florida leaked that information which is a fereral crime. Thaat is why Cam is the only one that you have heard about. And that is why you guys are attaking him. Dont be naive to think he is the only one that has done this.

he has done some bulls**t SEVERAL times...if i see a guy, who does bulls**t again and again, then i think that he doesnt learn anything from that. dont u get it? do u wanna have an ignorant QB?

i want a QB who can win football games. i don't care how dumb he is.

but i do, at this position...QBs have to learn the systems and how to read nfl-defenses...i dont think that this is easy for a stupid person. anyone could hold a phd in mathematics...it only depends on the time...

been there done that

cough, cough....Alex Smith....cough, cough

Exhibit A why that philosophy isnt true

How does Alex Smith prove him wrong? Alex understands everything but isn't instinctual and too hesitant. Just about all the good QBs in the league nowadays have a wonderlic of 30 or above; the NFL is just too complex nowadays. The only exception being Vick, and Vick has the best QB people in the league around him that know how to gameplan and playcall better than anyone else in the league.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I've got a feeling we have not heard the end of this young man's problems.

First, he was arrested in Florida for stolen property and obstruction of justice and served an intervention program to avoid real jail time.

Second, dude took someone else's paper and submitted it to a professor, who realized it was not his (probably written at too high a level). Then, Cam goes on the internet and buys someone else's paper, and gets caught by the prof a second time. He is scheduled to go before the discipline committee, but decides to get out of town first.

He claims he had no idea what his father (the supposed "holy man" pastor) was doing in auctioning him to the highest bidder. You would have to be insane to buy that he was unaware. Then, he says he is proud of his father. Why not? He obviously believes that he did nothing wrong.

I have worked with children who are just like Cam. They are never truly sorry for their actions when they are caught. They are just sorry they are caught.

Unfortunately, due to FERPA limitations, we will probably never know the full truth about his academic history. My guess, as a former college prof and acamedic advisor, if that he has no other option than to declare going to the pros due to his current gpa. In other words, he would probably declared ineligible for next season.

The defenders of Cam Newton say that it is not a big deal that he broke the law, was academically dishonest, that he violated NCAA rules. I say, if this is what we know, what else do we not know? This guy has zero character, and to hand him tens of millions of dollars. I think I will pass.

i was going to reply to more of your post but as soon as i noticed that i just erased it all....

I just popped into this thread and caught the bold and the reply. I didn't even read the rest of your post, MadDog.

Jcool is absolutely right. You are absolutely wrong.

I have also worked with kids with "problems". I won't say kids "just like Cam" because they do not exist. Cam Newton is Cam Newton. You cannot assume that he will think or behave the same way another person did just because they have similar circumstances. This is not only terrible psychology, this is terrible logic.

I respect jcool for walking away without arguing with you. I will not.

The fact that you have "worked with" kids and had that attitude makes me sick. If you want to argue with me about this issue, prepare for war.

Your opinion disgusts me.

Why do criminals declare their innocence even after all the evidence clearly shows they are guilty? Because they do not sense what they are doing is wrong. The only feelings of sadness or remorse is that they were caught. This is the mindset of career criminals, habitual criminals, people who have a lack of moral development.

The vast majority of students I have worked with do not have this problem. However, there have certainly been numerous children who are much like Cam. They break laws, defy authority, cheat and steal whenever they can, because they do not have good moral judgment. Can this change over time? It is possible. However, some people will never emerge to behave well when no one is looking, take the high road morally, do things in society for others with no selfish interest.

Should we be surprised Cam has behaved this way, since his father was illegally trying to pawn him off to the highest bidder.

Please do us all a favor and stop posting on the topic, you are clearly are bringing nothing relevant to this and you seem to have some kind of prejudice.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Why do criminals declare their innocence even after all the evidence clearly shows they are guilty? Because they do not sense what they are doing is wrong. The only feelings of sadness or remorse is that they were caught. This is the mindset of career criminals, habitual criminals, people who have a lack of moral development.

The vast majority of students I have worked with do not have this problem. However, there have certainly been numerous children who are much like Cam. They break laws, defy authority, cheat and steal whenever they can, because they do not have good moral judgment. Can this change over time? It is possible. However, some people will never emerge to behave well when no one is looking, take the high road morally, do things in society for others with no selfish interest.

Should we be surprised Cam has behaved this way, since his father was illegally trying to pawn him off to the highest bidder.

I don't know you or your background. You don't know me or mine. Let's leave it that way because I don't want to know what kind of "work" you did with these kids.

There are two things that I have a problem with about your point of view.

1) I don't understand all of the details of Cam Newton's "problems". I haven't bothered to spend the time researching them because it is pointless. You can't know what is truly going on if you are getting your information from anywhere other than first hand. The fact that you condemn a kid based on news clippings is ignorant, fatalistic, and absurd.

It is just as likely (probably more likely) that everything he says is true and he fits in with the "vast majority of students I have worked with do not have this problem." Anything else is an assumption on your part based on poor sources (sensationalist media) that got many of the facts wrong from the start, as I understand it.

2) Your narrow minded point of view on the nature of humanity tells me that you might want to educate yourself on the topic of criminal recidivism. There are far more reasons for a person to repeat immoral or criminal activities than "a lack of moral development".

Specifically in this instance, kids at Cam Newton's age haven't even finished restructuring their adolescent brains. They don't even have the capacity for complete "moral development". Every person's brain restructures at a different rate from around the ages of 14 to 25. Cam Newton's brain is still going through some major changes that effect his behavior and are not an indictment on his final completed personality. I have no idea how educated you are, so I'll just point out that this is not the same thing as puberty. If you want to know more, Google it. I'm not going to teach you about adolescent neuroscience. Just keep in mind that there is a reason we don't give kids the full rights that adults have until they are 21.

The point is, kids do stupid s**t because they're kids. Not because they're "career criminals" with a "lack of moral development". They don't get those labels until they are actually fully developed mature adults with defined personalities.

Lastly, Cam Newton is an individual. Everyone is different and deals with things differently. You really just have no idea who he is. Stop acting like you do.

The only QB worth drafting in the 1st round is Luck. I'd draft Cam in the 2nd.

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

You want to know why that it has been made public about Cam cheating? Because, someone at the University of Florida leaked that information which is a fereral crime. Thaat is why Cam is the only one that you have heard about. And that is why you guys are attaking him. Dont be naive to think he is the only one that has done this.

he has done some bulls**t SEVERAL times...if i see a guy, who does bulls**t again and again, then i think that he doesnt learn anything from that. dont u get it? do u wanna have an ignorant QB?

i want a QB who can win football games. i don't care how dumb he is.

but i do, at this position...QBs have to learn the systems and how to read nfl-defenses...i dont think that this is easy for a stupid person. anyone could hold a phd in mathematics...it only depends on the time...

been there done that

cough, cough....Alex Smith....cough, cough

Exhibit A why that philosophy isnt true

How does Alex Smith prove him wrong? Alex understands everything but isn't instinctual and too hesitant. Just about all the good QBs in the league nowadays have a wonderlic of 30 or above; the NFL is just too complex nowadays. The only exception being Vick, and Vick has the best QB people in the league around him that know how to gameplan and playcall better than anyone else in the league.

He asked if we want an ignorant QB....because he is implying like you, that you have to have a smart QB. WELL, we have one of the smartest QBs in the NFL (by one of the highest wonderlic scores ever posted), and where has that got us? Nowhere. That right there proves that just because you have a smart QB, doesnt guarentee success.

You give us Vick as an exception. It doesent matter who his coaches are now to help him, he has to help himself. Hell, Vick even admitted that he didn't try at all in Atlanta. He just relied on his skills.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Please do us all a favor and stop posting on the topic, you are clearly are bringing nothing relevant to this and you seem to have some kind of prejudice.

he is indeed on topic...you just dont understand his point.

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

You give us Vick as an exception. It doesent matter who his coaches are now to help him, he has to help himself. Hell, Vick even admitted that he didn't try at all in Atlanta. He just relied on his skills.

thats the issue here...if i'm remind me correctly, todays franchise QBs usually have solid-high wonderlic tests and if you follow their interviews, you can hear out normally whether they are smart or not...
it's not only about paper intelligence. but if you have a stupid guy, you have to tell him things twice or even more often...do a nfl-franchise have that time, money and coaching staff??? especially at QB?????

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Please do us all a favor and stop posting on the topic, you are clearly are bringing nothing relevant to this and you seem to have some kind of prejudice.

he is indeed on topic...you just dont understand his point.

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

You give us Vick as an exception. It doesent matter who his coaches are now to help him, he has to help himself. Hell, Vick even admitted that he didn't try at all in Atlanta. He just relied on his skills.

thats the issue here...if i'm remind me correctly, todays franchise QBs usually have solid-high wonderlic tests and if you follow their interviews, you can hear out normally whether they are smart or not...
it's not only about paper intelligence. but if you have a stupid guy, you have to tell him things twice or even more often...do a nfl-franchise have that time, money and coaching staff??? especially at QB?????

book smart , street smart, whatever you wanna call it. Its can you play QB, Lead your team, and win? Isnt that what this is about here? Not how smart he is? Most NFL football players do not do very well at all in the wonderlic tests...half the players weren't in school for an education, but to get a shot at pro football...some of them are dumb as s**t, others smart as hell.....the thing is how they perform. And that is what teams look at.

Originally posted by ninerlifer:

book smart , street smart, whatever you wanna call it. Its can you play QB, Lead your team, and win? Isnt that what this is about here? Not how smart he is? Most NFL football players do not do very well at all in the wonderlic tests...half the players weren't in school for an education, but to get a shot at pro football...some of them are dumb as s**t, others smart as hell.....the thing is how they perform. And that is what teams look at.

except for the most QBs...a qb has to make smart decisions in little time, i doubt that a dump player could do that.