Johnathan Hankins...

Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I may be on an island here, but I just don't see the value in spending our money on an NT/0-tech when we're shifting to a 4-3. He's a good player and entering his prime, but we're still very much at the beginning of our rebuild, and he's a piece that makes sense when you're almost at the top, not when you're laying the foundation.

How do you lay a foundation when you can't stop the run?

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

How do you lay a foundation when you can't stop the run?

You dont need to pay $10 million a year to get guys to stop the run.

The biggest issue the team had with stopping the run besides the myriad of injuries was a scheme which basically forced every guy on defense to guess what the player in front of them was going to do. I lost track of the number of times guys looked lost on where to go and flat out ended up going at the wrong gap, just playing confused.


You can address the DL far cheaper through the draft with a wide variety of quality prospects.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Lobo49er:
How do you lay a foundation when you can't stop the run?

You dont need to pay $10 million a year to get guys to stop the run.

The biggest issue the team had with stopping the run besides the myriad of injuries was a scheme which basically forced every guy on defense to guess what the player in front of them was going to do. I lost track of the number of times guys looked lost on where to go and flat out ended up going at the wrong gap, just playing confused.

You can address the DL far cheaper through the draft with a wide variety of quality prospects.

You do if you have a ton of cap space and a huge issue when it comes to stopping the run.

Originally posted by glorydayz:
You do if you have a ton of cap space and a huge issue when it comes to stopping the run.

That doesn't really make much sense to me. You don't blow available funds on something we may be able to acquire significantly cheaper just because we're under the cap.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Lobo49er:
How do you lay a foundation when you can't stop the run?

You dont need to pay $10 million a year to get guys to stop the run.

The biggest issue the team had with stopping the run besides the myriad of injuries was a scheme which basically forced every guy on defense to guess what the player in front of them was going to do. I lost track of the number of times guys looked lost on where to go and flat out ended up going at the wrong gap, just playing confused.

You can address the DL far cheaper through the draft with a wide variety of quality prospects.

You do if you have a ton of cap space and a huge issue when it comes to stopping the run.

(I never said sign him for 10 mil )

Yup, need to draft a NT, completely agree. And yes, the scheme sucked. You left out the part where our depth was disgusting though. And this is my point. Depth. Let's assume you and I agree that we need to draft a NT. Are we starting a rookie? If so, then what if he gets hurt? If we want to let the rookie split time, then who is he sharing it with?

We need a vet NT, and this is the last one, and he's shown he can be great (2015) to okay (last year). Currently we have nobody (unless we count Mitchell, who is not a 2gapping run stuffer, so let's not). Give him a 5 year deal (last two years are fake), 8-9 mil a year. He's here 3 years max, that's enough time for the rook to develop and draft another NT. Always 2 .

We need a vet NT.

Originally posted by MeddlingKids:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
You do if you have a ton of cap space and a huge issue when it comes to stopping the run.

That doesn't really make much sense to me. You don't blow available funds on something we may be able to acquire significantly cheaper just because we're under the cap.

Yes, we can get them cheap in the draft. But where are we getting two NTs? In the draft? Doesn't seem likely, though I'm not opposed to it.

This is caveated by the fact that his D-line coach last year is on our staff, so I'll defer to him if Hankins is the type of person we want in hours, but I definitely want the player. Interior run-stoppers can take a little while to develop given the strength of the NFL game.

He clearly wants a contract that makes him feel respected. I'd definitely offer something hugely front-loaded, with little guarantees on the back-end. That way he can announce a big contract, with lots of guaranteed money, but we'd basically be committing to a 2-3 year deal. Slotting him in-between the twin towers instantly gives us a formidable D-line

RE – Buckner
NT – Hankins
3 Technique – Armstead
LEO – Lynch / Draft Pick

Originally posted by Bimbo_Coles:

This is caveated by the fact that his D-line coach last year is on our staff, so I'll defer to him if Hankins is the type of person we want in hours, but I definitely want the player. Interior run-stoppers can take a little while to develop given the strength of the NFL game.

He clearly wants a contract that makes him feel respected. I'd definitely offer something hugely front-loaded, with little guarantees on the back-end. That way he can announce a big contract, with lots of guaranteed money, but we'd basically be committing to a 2-3 year deal. Slotting him in-between the twin towers instantly gives us a formidable D-line

RE – Buckner
NT – Hankins
3 Technique – Armstead
LEO – Lynch / Draft Pick

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by Bimbo_Coles:
This is caveated by the fact that his D-line coach last year is on our staff, so I'll defer to him if Hankins is the type of person we want in hours, but I definitely want the player. Interior run-stoppers can take a little while to develop given the strength of the NFL game.

He clearly wants a contract that makes him feel respected. I'd definitely offer something hugely front-loaded, with little guarantees on the back-end. That way he can announce a big contract, with lots of guaranteed money, but we'd basically be committing to a 2-3 year deal. Slotting him in-between the twin towers instantly gives us a formidable D-line

RE – Buckner
NT – Hankins
3 Technique – Armstead
LEO – Lynch / Draft Pick

Add " / Draft Pick" after Hankins, and I'm 100% on board.

The biggest problem with signing him for 4 years/$35 million is that is sets the salary structure you have to live with in the future. So let's say Armstead comes back healthy and plays up to his draft status. In another year you are looking to extend him and now the $10 million becomes the base plus the escalation of time and cap. You wind up paying him $14 million/4 years and are facing a similar escalation with Buckner and whoever else is in line for renewal.

Just too big of a hit on the salary structure in the future.

Originally posted by dj43:
The biggest problem with signing him for 4 years/$35 million is that is sets the salary structure you have to live with in the future. So let's say Armstead comes back healthy and plays up to his draft status. In another year you are looking to extend him and now the $10 million becomes the base plus the escalation of time and cap. You wind up paying him $14 million/4 years and are facing a similar escalation with Buckner and whoever else is in line for renewal.

Just too big of a hit on the salary structure in the future.

Not sure I follow. The NFL Market sets the value on DTs, not just the 49ers. Suh is averaging almost 20 a year, Wilkerson 17 mil, Cox 17 mil. Signing Hankins to 8 mil a yr isn't stretching the market at all. It doesn't affect AA's signing, nor Buck's signing - the FA market will set their bands over the next couple of years. Hankins' asking price is about what BWill got (~10 mil avg/yr). I'm advocating making an offer of ~8-9 mil avg/yr. Now, is he worth that? He's worth what he gets paid, so we'll see.

Originally posted by glorydayz:

You do if you have a ton of cap space and a huge issue when it comes to stopping the run.

Blowing cap space just because you have it is how you become Jacksonville.

With the way the 49ers have approached FA so far, in a very measured and logical fashion, I dont see them dropping a ton of money on a luxury that can be addressed through the draft.


This is not a one year rebuild either, as time goes on the roster will get better and better and available cap space will shrink more and more, dropping money now just because means you wont be able to re-sign a guy that you'd really like to keep in the future.

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Yes, we can get them cheap in the draft. But where are we getting two NTs? In the draft? Doesn't seem likely, though I'm not opposed to it.

Where do they need two NTs when they already signed Mitchell? You can find space eaters all throughout the draft, you'll find bargains dirt cheap in FA later on as well.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Lobo49er:
Yes, we can get them cheap in the draft. But where are we getting two NTs? In the draft? Doesn't seem likely, though I'm not opposed to it.

Where do they need two NTs when they already signed Mitchell? You can find space eaters all throughout the draft, you'll find bargains dirt cheap in FA later on as well.

Mitchell isn't a NT. We need two big boys. Draft and FA (imo). I hope you're right, that we're able to find a space eater later on in FA (because my fantasy of Hankins starting in a niner uniform will probably never be anything more than that).

Seems like Hankins was expecting a big long term deal and he's not getting it on the market. He'll have to do what Poe, Jeffery, Pryor did. Take a 1 year prove it deal and test the market again next year. I wouldn't mind taking a 1 year rental on him.