Kyle Orton

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
orton isnt worth what we would have to give up to get him. he is a decent starter if he has weapons around him. He isnt a franchise qb which is what we need.

He is what we need until our franchise QB is ready to start. I like Troy Smith as our number 3. We still need someone who is ready to start week 1. Of the options out there, he may be available and can lead us to a winning season with the talent we have now.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
orton isnt worth what we would have to give up to get him. he is a decent starter if he has weapons around him. He isnt a franchise qb which is what we need.

He is what we need until our franchise QB is ready to start. I like Troy Smith as our number 3. We still need someone who is ready to start week 1. Of the options out there, he may be available and can lead us to a winning season with the talent we have now.

Considering that in addition to a QB, the 49ers need a pass rusher almost as much, and a CB and #1 WR, are you willing to give up a 2nd round pick to get Orton?

(that is what it would take to get him out of Denver, if they are even willing to make that deal)

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
orton isnt worth what we would have to give up to get him. he is a decent starter if he has weapons around him. He isnt a franchise qb which is what we need.

He is what we need until our franchise QB is ready to start. I like Troy Smith as our number 3. We still need someone who is ready to start week 1. Of the options out there, he may be available and can lead us to a winning season with the talent we have now.

Considering that in addition to a QB, the 49ers need a pass rusher almost as much, and a CB and #1 WR, are you willing to give up a 2nd round pick to get Orton?

(that is what it would take to get him out of Denver, if they are even willing to make that deal)

I would. With that done, we wouldn't have to get a QB in the 1st round. We could get pass rusher/CB in the 1st, and sign a Mike Sims Walker or a Santana Moss in FA.

Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Since Smith is no longer going to be a part of the team, that comment is irrelevant. Considering the team also needs a pass rusher, a CB, FS and a WR, how much are you willing to give for Orton?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Since Smith is no longer going to be a part of the team, that comment is irrelevant. Considering the team also needs a pass rusher, a CB, FS and a WR, how much are you willing to give for Orton?

It is relevant b/c some people still want Alex back. Theres still a small chance it could happen, too. I'd give a 3rd and a 5th.

[ Edited by niner4life21 on Jan 3, 2011 at 12:22:15 ]

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Since Smith is no longer going to be a part of the team, that comment is irrelevant. Considering the team also needs a pass rusher, a CB, FS and a WR, how much are you willing to give for Orton?

It is relevant b/c some people still want Alex back. Theres still a small chance it could happen, too. I'd give a 3rd and a 5th.

Well, I happen to be one of them because he is better than any of the FAs that would come here. However, I see no chance he returns.

The problem is his leaving forces a trade for a guy that is not as good as Smith.

Here is what we are looking at over the past 8 games:

Over the past 8 games that he played, Orton's rating is 79 of which his team won ONE GAME and he had the league leading receiver to throw to.

Palmer is 83 with two wins.

McNabb is 70 with two wins.

Over two seasons, Kolb is 83 with four wins with a playoff team.

Smith over his past 8 games is 91 and his team won three games. That is better by any analysis than the other four names commonly being bandied about.

So yes, I would much rather have Alex Smith come back than be forced to spend more money and/or draft picks for ANY of those guys. Wouldn't you?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Since Smith is no longer going to be a part of the team, that comment is irrelevant. Considering the team also needs a pass rusher, a CB, FS and a WR, how much are you willing to give for Orton?

It is relevant b/c some people still want Alex back. Theres still a small chance it could happen, too. I'd give a 3rd and a 5th.

Well, I happen to be one of them because he is better than any of the FAs that would come here. However, I see no chance he returns.

The problem is his leaving forces a trade for a guy that is not as good as Smith.

Here is what we are looking at over the past 8 games:

Over the past 8 games that he played, Orton's rating is 79 of which his team won ONE GAME and he had the league leading receiver to throw to.

Palmer is 83 with two wins.

McNabb is 70 with two wins.

Over two seasons, Kolb is 83 with four wins with a playoff team.

Smith over his past 8 games is 91 and his team won three games. That is better by any analysis than the other four names commonly being bandied about.

So yes, I would much rather have Alex Smith come back than be forced to spend more money and/or draft picks for ANY of those guys. Wouldn't you?

Lolcats. Can we stop with all handpicking stats bulls**t?

I don't want McNabb or Palmer. I want Orton. Go look at the past 2 seasons for Orton and Alex. Then compare the two. There is your answer.

Give me Orton, Palmer or McNabb

& draft a QB

ill be satisfied with any of those guys

Orton is a damn good QB. He knows how to get the ball to his recievers. He was a big part of why Lloyd was the #1 reciever this season.

Originally posted by niner4life21:
Orton is a damn good QB. He knows how to get the ball to his recievers. He was a big part of why Lloyd was the #1 reciever this season.

if he can make B Lloyd a pro bowler imagine what he can do with the skillset of guys like Morgan, Crabtree & VD

SKY'S THE LIMIT

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Since Smith is no longer going to be a part of the team, that comment is irrelevant. Considering the team also needs a pass rusher, a CB, FS and a WR, how much are you willing to give for Orton?

It is relevant b/c some people still want Alex back. Theres still a small chance it could happen, too. I'd give a 3rd and a 5th.

Well, I happen to be one of them because he is better than any of the FAs that would come here. However, I see no chance he returns.

The problem is his leaving forces a trade for a guy that is not as good as Smith.

Here is what we are looking at over the past 8 games:

Over the past 8 games that he played, Orton's rating is 79 of which his team won ONE GAME and he had the league leading receiver to throw to.

Palmer is 83 with two wins.

McNabb is 70 with two wins.

Over two seasons, Kolb is 83 with four wins with a playoff team.

Smith over his past 8 games is 91 and his team won three games. That is better by any analysis than the other four names commonly being bandied about.

So yes, I would much rather have Alex Smith come back than be forced to spend more money and/or draft picks for ANY of those guys. Wouldn't you?

Lolcats. Can we stop with all handpicking stats bulls**t?

I don't want McNabb or Palmer. I want Orton. Go look at the past 2 seasons for Orton and Alex. Then compare the two. There is your answer.

I too don't like handpicked stats but one of the rules I have for analysis is to limit the number of variables whenever possible.

In this case, the limit I chose was the games where Smith had Johnson as OC, 8 games. So I chose a like number for Orton in which he also had the same OC. Does that seem so unreasonable?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Since Smith is no longer going to be a part of the team, that comment is irrelevant. Considering the team also needs a pass rusher, a CB, FS and a WR, how much are you willing to give for Orton?

It is relevant b/c some people still want Alex back. Theres still a small chance it could happen, too. I'd give a 3rd and a 5th.

Well, I happen to be one of them because he is better than any of the FAs that would come here. However, I see no chance he returns.

The problem is his leaving forces a trade for a guy that is not as good as Smith.

Here is what we are looking at over the past 8 games:

Over the past 8 games that he played, Orton's rating is 79 of which his team won ONE GAME and he had the league leading receiver to throw to.

Palmer is 83 with two wins.

McNabb is 70 with two wins.

Over two seasons, Kolb is 83 with four wins with a playoff team.

Smith over his past 8 games is 91 and his team won three games. That is better by any analysis than the other four names commonly being bandied about.

So yes, I would much rather have Alex Smith come back than be forced to spend more money and/or draft picks for ANY of those guys. Wouldn't you?

Lolcats. Can we stop with all handpicking stats bulls**t?

I don't want McNabb or Palmer. I want Orton. Go look at the past 2 seasons for Orton and Alex. Then compare the two. There is your answer.

I too don't like handpicked stats but one of the rules I have for analysis is to limit the number of variables whenever possible.

In this case, the limit I chose was the games where Smith had Johnson as OC, 8 games. So I chose a like number for Orton in which he also had the same OC. Does that seem so unreasonable?

Yes. B/c I don't want to judge Alex as a QB by the last 8 games. I'm not going to compare him to other QBs based off that sample of play. Thats ridiculous. Look at past 8 season. Or you can look at how tough the teams were for these other QBs. I can guarantee Alex had the much easier schedule.

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Since Smith is no longer going to be a part of the team, that comment is irrelevant. Considering the team also needs a pass rusher, a CB, FS and a WR, how much are you willing to give for Orton?

It is relevant b/c some people still want Alex back. Theres still a small chance it could happen, too. I'd give a 3rd and a 5th.

Well, I happen to be one of them because he is better than any of the FAs that would come here. However, I see no chance he returns.

The problem is his leaving forces a trade for a guy that is not as good as Smith.

Here is what we are looking at over the past 8 games:

Over the past 8 games that he played, Orton's rating is 79 of which his team won ONE GAME and he had the league leading receiver to throw to.

Palmer is 83 with two wins.

McNabb is 70 with two wins.

Over two seasons, Kolb is 83 with four wins with a playoff team.

Smith over his past 8 games is 91 and his team won three games. That is better by any analysis than the other four names commonly being bandied about.

So yes, I would much rather have Alex Smith come back than be forced to spend more money and/or draft picks for ANY of those guys. Wouldn't you?

Lolcats. Can we stop with all handpicking stats bulls**t?

I don't want McNabb or Palmer. I want Orton. Go look at the past 2 seasons for Orton and Alex. Then compare the two. There is your answer.

I too don't like handpicked stats but one of the rules I have for analysis is to limit the number of variables whenever possible.

In this case, the limit I chose was the games where Smith had Johnson as OC, 8 games. So I chose a like number for Orton in which he also had the same OC. Does that seem so unreasonable?

Yes. B/c I don't want to judge Alex as a QB by the last 8 games. I'm not going to compare him to other QBs based off that sample of play. Thats ridiculous. Look at past 8 season. Or you can look at how tough the teams were for these other QBs. I can guarantee Alex had the much easier schedule.

Now you go moving the goalposts. When conditions change substantially, the comparison basis is no longer appropriate.

However, to your question of who played the most difficult schedule, it isn't all that far apart. In the 8 game time frame I chose in which there is a similar basis, Denver played:
AZ
KC x2
StL
SD
SF
Oak
Jets

Smith played two games against playoff teams while Orton played three.

[ Edited by dj43 on Jan 3, 2011 at 13:43:44 ]

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by niner4life21:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by bigmike55:
Orton is better than Alex Smith so I wouldn't mind.

Since Smith is no longer going to be a part of the team, that comment is irrelevant. Considering the team also needs a pass rusher, a CB, FS and a WR, how much are you willing to give for Orton?

It is relevant b/c some people still want Alex back. Theres still a small chance it could happen, too. I'd give a 3rd and a 5th.

Well, I happen to be one of them because he is better than any of the FAs that would come here. However, I see no chance he returns.

The problem is his leaving forces a trade for a guy that is not as good as Smith.

Here is what we are looking at over the past 8 games:

Over the past 8 games that he played, Orton's rating is 79 of which his team won ONE GAME and he had the league leading receiver to throw to.

Palmer is 83 with two wins.

McNabb is 70 with two wins.

Over two seasons, Kolb is 83 with four wins with a playoff team.

Smith over his past 8 games is 91 and his team won three games. That is better by any analysis than the other four names commonly being bandied about.

So yes, I would much rather have Alex Smith come back than be forced to spend more money and/or draft picks for ANY of those guys. Wouldn't you?

Lolcats. Can we stop with all handpicking stats bulls**t?

I don't want McNabb or Palmer. I want Orton. Go look at the past 2 seasons for Orton and Alex. Then compare the two. There is your answer.

I too don't like handpicked stats but one of the rules I have for analysis is to limit the number of variables whenever possible.

In this case, the limit I chose was the games where Smith had Johnson as OC, 8 games. So I chose a like number for Orton in which he also had the same OC. Does that seem so unreasonable?

Yes. B/c I don't want to judge Alex as a QB by the last 8 games. I'm not going to compare him to other QBs based off that sample of play. Thats ridiculous. Look at past 8 season. Or you can look at how tough the teams were for these other QBs. I can guarantee Alex had the much easier schedule.

Now you go moving the goalposts. When conditions change substantially, the comparison basis is no longer appropriate.

However, to your question of who played the most difficult schedule, it isn't all that far apart. In the 8 game time frame I chose in which there is a similar basis, Denver played:
AZ
KC x2
StL
SD
SF
Oak
Jets

You're correct sir. The schedule the past 8 games is not all that different. Still, as any logical person would say, 8 games is not enough to judge which QB is better. I'm sure you know that. Go look at the first 8 games this year for Ryan Fitzpatrick. I'm sure he had a rating of 90 or something.

Point is, you can twist the stats as much as you want and cut them off at certain points to benefit your argument, but you CANNOT compare two QBs off of 8 games.

Anyways, why don't you want to compare last season? Didn't Smith supposedly have his best season last year?