2012-13 General NBA Discussion Thread

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by bleeds9ersredandgold:
Just a terrible GM... How in tha hell do let Howard get away?

You gotta look at it in perspective. Orlando doesn't have the upper hand in keeping their players. I compare it to having a brand new camaro. Orlando is the camaro. Beautiful car. Looks and drives nice. It'll get you some chicks. But wouldn't you rather have a Ferrari? That beautiful camaro really ain't s**t compared to the Ferrari. The camaro won't get you nearly as much p***y as the Ferrari. The Lakers are the Ferrari. And who wouldn't want the Ferrari?

I disagree with this. If Orlando would have won a title with Dwight, none of it would have happened in my opinion. Otis Smith simply couldn't put a good enough team around Howard.

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by bleeds9ersredandgold:

Just a terrible GM... How in tha hell do let Howard get away?

You gotta look at it in perspective. Orlando doesn't have the upper hand in keeping their players. I compare it to having a brand new camaro. Orlando is the camaro. Beautiful car. Looks and drives nice. It'll get you some chicks. But wouldn't you rather have a Ferrari? That beautiful camaro really ain't s**t compared to the Ferrari. The camaro won't get you nearly as much p***y as the Ferrari. The Lakers are the Ferrari. And who wouldn't want the Ferrari?

I disagree with this. If Orlando would have won a title with Dwight, none of it would have happened in my opinion. Otis Smith simply couldn't put a good enough team around Howard.

That's a big if.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by bleeds9ersredandgold:
Just a terrible GM... How in tha hell do let Howard get away?

You gotta look at it in perspective. Orlando doesn't have the upper hand in keeping their players. I compare it to having a brand new camaro. Orlando is the camaro. Beautiful car. Looks and drives nice. It'll get you some chicks. But wouldn't you rather have a Ferrari? That beautiful camaro really ain't s**t compared to the Ferrari. The camaro won't get you nearly as much p***y as the Ferrari. The Lakers are the Ferrari. And who wouldn't want the Ferrari?

I disagree with this. If Orlando would have won a title with Dwight, none of it would have happened in my opinion. Otis Smith simply couldn't put a good enough team around Howard.

That's a big if.

Agreed, but just sayin'

Originally posted by jrg:
Power Rankings

http://espn.go.com/nba/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/0

sixers are to low

Originally posted by Knowledge:

Originally posted by jrg:
Power Rankings

http://espn.go.com/nba/powerrankings/_/year/2013/week/0

sixers are to low

should be lower

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Thats not what I said. I said that Presti thought Harden was worth $55 million. Obviously Presti has a good track record as a GM. And you said that Harden isn't worth $55 million. Fine, if you think you know Harden's value better then Presti, cool for you.

Clearly Harden was in the market, as valued by multiple GMs in the mid-high $50's for 4 years.

My point was obviously that if people think Harden is overpaid, by his market value, he is hardly being over paid by much. But several posters are acting like he is majorly over paid.

As far as comparing Harden's salary to the bona fide superstars, its ludicrous to make that point. Super stars salaries don't reflect the market value because its not a free market. Eg. Durant on a free market might command a salary of $80+million over 4 years, but rules cut his salary down (well and I believe he took a hit voluntarily so the team could fit under the cap). But because Durant takes a hit, doesn't mean there should be a trickle down effect downsizing Harden's value.

...by the same token - Presti thought Harden was not worth the max contract. I also feel Harden was more important to OKC (and a desperate team like Rockets) than any other team. A guy who is a liability on defense shouldn't get max contract IMO.

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
...by the same token - Presti thought Harden was not worth the max contract. I also feel Harden was more important to OKC (and a desperate team like Rockets) than any other team. A guy who is a liability on defense shouldn't get max contract IMO.

intersting point. I don't think Harden is a big liability on D. He was posted on Lebron on finals which destroyed his confidence. I dunno, I dont think thats how you measure D.

For the record I do think max contract is overpaying Harden, I love the dude but he hasn't proven it yet. BUT its about the market place.

In the trade, if it was the NFL OKC won for sure. In the NBA? I think OKC lost because they had a chance at a "super team". Not saying it would be, but you build an NBA team to get a super team, not just a good team for longevity.

Also IMO, and hate me all you guys want, Westbrook will prevent OKC from ever getting a championship. Harden was a PERFECT complement to Durant offensively.

Dubs >> Minnesota!

Originally posted by YungAce:

Dubs >> Minnesota!

Kings>>>> both combined

Originally posted by marshniners24:

Originally posted by YungAce:
Dubs >> Minnesota!

Kings>>>> both combined

cheaters

Originally posted by YungAce:

Originally posted by marshniners24:

Originally posted by YungAce:

Dubs >> Minnesota!

Kings>>>> both combined

cheaters

Lol

Sleep Train arena is now what it's called after power balance went bankrupt

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
...by the same token - Presti thought Harden was not worth the max contract. I also feel Harden was more important to OKC (and a desperate team like Rockets) than any other team. A guy who is a liability on defense shouldn't get max contract IMO.

intersting point. I don't think Harden is a big liability on D. He was posted on Lebron on finals which destroyed his confidence. I dunno, I dont think thats how you measure D.

For the record I do think max contract is overpaying Harden, I love the dude but he hasn't proven it yet. BUT its about the market place.

In the trade, if it was the NFL OKC won for sure. In the NBA? I think OKC lost because they had a chance at a "super team". Not saying it would be, but you build an NBA team to get a super team, not just a good team for longevity.

Also IMO, and hate me all you guys want, Westbrook will prevent OKC from ever getting a championship. Harden was a PERFECT complement to Durant offensively.

It wasn't just the Finals where Harden struggled on defense. But, you're right - guys like Batum and Hibbert got ridiculous deals - and market determines Harden's value and maybe more than a couple GMs will offer him a max deal or close to it.

I still feel Houston gave up too much for Harden. Once OKC realized they can't sign him, they decided to get something in return for him - and they got an excellent deal. Martin is a pretty good player and is an expiring contract. Lamb is a promising rookie, and they got a pretty good pick from Houston through Raptors. I'm not sure Houston has any concrete plans. They have made a LOT of questionable moves with off-season and even if Harden works out for them - I don't see them going anywhere.

I agree with you on Westbrook. The guy is not a natural PG and that hurts that team down the stretch because of bad decision making on his part.

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
...by the same token - Presti thought Harden was not worth the max contract. I also feel Harden was more important to OKC (and a desperate team like Rockets) than any other team. A guy who is a liability on defense shouldn't get max contract IMO.

intersting point. I don't think Harden is a big liability on D. He was posted on Lebron on finals which destroyed his confidence. I dunno, I dont think thats how you measure D.

For the record I do think max contract is overpaying Harden, I love the dude but he hasn't proven it yet. BUT its about the market place.

In the trade, if it was the NFL OKC won for sure. In the NBA? I think OKC lost because they had a chance at a "super team". Not saying it would be, but you build an NBA team to get a super team, not just a good team for longevity.

Also IMO, and hate me all you guys want, Westbrook will prevent OKC from ever getting a championship. Harden was a PERFECT complement to Durant offensively.

It wasn't just the Finals where Harden struggled on defense. But, you're right - guys like Batum and Hibbert got ridiculous deals - and market determines Harden's value and maybe more than a couple GMs will offer him a max deal or close to it.

I still feel Houston gave up too much for Harden. Once OKC realized they can't sign him, they decided to get something in return for him - and they got an excellent deal. Martin is a pretty good player and is an expiring contract. Lamb is a promising rookie, and they got a pretty good pick from Houston through Raptors. I'm not sure Houston has any concrete plans. They have made a LOT of questionable moves with off-season and even if Harden works out for them - I don't see them going anywhere.

I agree with you on Westbrook. The guy is not a natural PG and that hurts that team down the stretch because of bad decision making on his part.

Harden isn't a liability on D like Martin was. He was horrible out there. I dont think we gave up too much, people read it as Harden for Lamb, Martin, 2 1sts and a 2nd. Well the 2nd is a good one if Charlotte sucks, which is likely. Martin is aging, and isn't Harden, and is terrible on D like said, but is a good shooter. Lamb is unproven. And the 1sts, Dallas is Top 20 protected until 2018. And Toronto's is semi protected. Wont be a top 3 pick, will likely be 8-12 pick, and way it seems, they may make playoffs in 2012-13, which means no pick to them in 2013 draft.

Cole Aldrich will be our backup Center, and Daequan Cook will be a backup for us behind Harden. Hayward was waived.

They have enough for another max guy after this season. I agree Harden isn't a MAX guy by the usual, but the way the NBA is, he is Max potential, and you see Gordon and Hibbert get them, so why not Harden. I also believe Batum got a huge deal, not max but big sized deal. I would take Harden at max, then the other guy we would of gotten in 2011, Pau Gasol at 18M a yr.

Also apparently they(OKC) only offered 52M over 4 yrs according to Harden himself. So thats 8M difference. A big chunk for anyone. He wanted to be the GUY, he will be with another GUY.

Originally posted by marshniners24:

Originally posted by YungAce:

Originally posted by marshniners24:

Originally posted by YungAce:
Dubs >> Minnesota!

Kings>>>> both combined

cheaters

Lol

Sleep Train arena is now what it's called after power balance went bankrupt

lol