Smith's 'glass jaw' will eventually get exposed with 49ers

Originally posted by WINiner:
You are welcome to your opinion. You can throw out all the stats and name all the other parts of the team that failed. From the moment alex threw that dumb pick the play calls got real conservative and the Cowboys captured and kept momentum.

We were winning with game in hand, Alex throws the pick and things go down hill. Period.

Considering he came right back and threw another touchdown, your argument doesn't hold much water.

There is a great deal of nonsense in some of these posts. Smith can't be trusted to throw a quick slant (although he completed the only one called) but he can throw a very difficult sideline pass to Ginn that Dwight Clark said was one of the most difficult throws to make. The Int is a place where Smith has consistently hit VD over the years so you can't just say it's an area of weakness. Bad throw? Yes, but just a bad throw, not a tendency.

Smith's yards would have been much better in each game if the D hadn't held on two excellent TD throws. The 9ers got the yardage, but Smith did not. If you ignore these types of facts then you may be an Alexbasher of little merit. I was very surprised by several key plays Smith made including bad snap, scramble and throw down the field, his runs, and his taking a pounding but not wimping out. Was he in pain? You can believe he was, but it never showed.

As far as Smith being handed everything on a silver platter, or whatever the phrase was, BS. He was handed the keys to a bad offense with no experience. That is not the way to bring in a rookie. Rodgers had the advantage of sitting, learning, absorbing, and then playing. He still looked pretty bad his first year as a starter in many games.

The D and the OLine lost this game, plan and simple. Those who want to harp about Smith should examine their motives.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by WINiner:
You are welcome to your opinion. You can throw out all the stats and name all the other parts of the team that failed. From the moment alex threw that dumb pick the play calls got real conservative and the Cowboys captured and kept momentum.

We were winning with game in hand, Alex throws the pick and things go down hill. Period.

Considering he came right back and threw another touchdown, your argument doesn't hold much water.

Considering that TD did nothing to the momentum of the game, yes it would, if it were an argument. It isn't it, is my opinion and will not change.

This team will continue to suck long as GJ is the starting QB. We will always put up mediocre records against teams lesser talented teams and we will always compete well enough against good teams to make a good showing of it.

We will never be a consistently good team long as GJ QB's this team. We will ALWAYS have the momentum sapping, opponent assuring, boneheaded play that will break our hearts, regardless of how the rest the team plays.

That play was sooooooo basic that it is the shining beacon of proof that Glass Jaw just doesn't get it. Had GJ thrown the the right spot on the field it would have been a nice gainer and we put that game away, instead he throws to the obvious BAD spot on the field and the Cowboys are confident cause they too know Alex can't beat them and take the game over.

While I love having JH as our coach, cause I think he has a great career ahead of him, I hate him for bringing Glass Jaw Smith back for another round of fail.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:
nice analysis...

A flawed analysis based on conjecture with no basis in fact. Harbaugh might not trust the o line, but like has been said many times, we could have gotten another QB if he didn't want Smith. Too many of you guys are totally ignoring that the system is not fully installed yet, either out of ignorance or willfully to use it as a slap against the guy that has been the biggest contributor to the offense this year. He is getting no help from the running game and very little from the line.

Is Ron Rivera's offensive system full installed yet?

How many games have the Panthers won?

How many interceptions has Cam Newton thrown?

Which team has the least amount of rushing attempts by their running backs?

All Carolina has done is pass all day, turn the ball over and lose.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by WINiner:
You are welcome to your opinion. You can throw out all the stats and name all the other parts of the team that failed. From the moment alex threw that dumb pick the play calls got real conservative and the Cowboys captured and kept momentum.

We were winning with game in hand, Alex throws the pick and things go down hill. Period.

Considering he came right back and threw another touchdown, your argument doesn't hold much water.

Considering that TD did nothing to the momentum of the game, yes it would, if it were an argument. It isn't it, is my opinion and will not change.

This team will continue to suck long as GJ is the starting QB. We will always put up mediocre records against teams lesser talented teams and we will always compete well enough against good teams to make a good showing of it.

We will never be a consistently good team long as GJ QB's this team. We will ALWAYS have the momentum sapping, opponent assuring, boneheaded play that will break our hearts, regardless of how the rest the team plays.

That play was sooooooo basic that it is the shining beacon of proof that Glass Jaw just doesn't get it. Had GJ thrown the the right spot on the field it would have been a nice gainer and we put that game away, instead he throws to the obvious BAD spot on the field and the Cowboys are confident cause they too know Alex can't beat them and take the game over.

While I love having JH as our coach, cause I think he has a great career ahead of him, I hate him for bringing Glass Jaw Smith back for another round of fail.

I thought GJ made some amazing throws on Sunday. That laser to Kyle Williams missed the DB's hand by less than an inch. That throw to Delanie on the move was a thing of beauty. He hit Morgan twice in stride, once while being laid out. His dart to Braylon on the first 3rd down conversion was on the money and in stride (just rewatched the game) and Braylon made the mistake of stopping and cost himself a few yards.

I thought he looked pretty good for playing without any run game whatsoever. I'm not impressed with 180 yards, but he executed well within the playcalling. Old GJ looked pretty quick on the run up the middle where he took a hit from the safety and almost got the first down where we took the long field goal over the penalty. Gutsy run.

I miss Taylor Mays right now. Could he be worse than "frenchy" Madieu?

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:
If Harbaugh didn't "trust" Smith in the 2nd half then I seriously question his judgment as a coach. I don't think that's true at all. Smith had a 100+ rating going into half time (12/18 100+ yards and 1 TD, 0 int). And h converted nearly all of the third downs with passing. If those numbers don't instill a sense of trust between you and your QB then I don't even know what to say.

I don't think that's a problem though. I think Harbaugh thought he could get away, again, with playing soft in the 2nd half with a 2 TD lead. He forgot that we were playing the Cowboys and their QB isn't Tavaris Jackson.

Lambda I don't buy the whole QB rating for a "game" or a "half" or a "quarter".. Any system that says a QB is good passing for under 200 yards against a weak secondary and a INT certainly doesn't tell the whole story. It's not just the QB rating but analysis of Smith's entire game that counts. It's clear that Harbaugh doesn't trust Smith to consistently throw a slant or hit receivers over the middle unless blatently open. 80% of Smith's passes were either to the sideline or comeback routes. Very, very few timing routes or blitz beaters. Smith's passing game was manufactured to me ....and the Cowboy defense knew it. Simple defensive scheme - just run-blitz. - every down and double Davis. That's it - that's how you stop the 49ers.

Ok but those 1st half stats addresses the issue of Harbaugh's trust in Smith. I just completely disagree with that point. Just a webzone manufactured theory. That's not a defense of Alex more than it is a defense of Harbaugh. It just doesn't make sense. We passed 18 times in the first half (compared to 20 times all last game) so does that indicate a lack of trust? AND Smith played really well the first half..."manufactured" #s or not. Who cares...he got the job done. LOL cmon man...so when Smith does well...you don't "buy it" because it's "manufactured?" Fair enough but either way...he did well with what he was given. IF (big IF) Harbaugh DIDNT trust him...then he should have after the 1st half because Harbaugh did open the play book up going into the game. The first 5 or 6 plays of the game were pass plays.

Like many have said...I think it's a question of not having the full offense installed.

I don't think it addresses the issues of Harbaugh's trust in Smith. The Cowboys adjusted. I think our game plan - which was simple passes to the sidelines, and if someone is wide open in the middle of the field, throw - and run, run, run mixed with screens and misdirection. That worked. It was a brilliant game plan that emphasized Smith's strengths and minimized his weaknesses. However, when the Cowboys adjusted, things changed. Rob Ryan essentially said - fine, we are going to run blitz or run blitz every down because we don't believe Smith will beat us. Not one 3rd down converted after the half. The one play that worked well was another brilliantly designed play - it looked like a 2TE set run - max protect on the left side with Davis and Walker on the right. Davis draws a CB and FS and Walker is one-on-one with Ware - complete mismatch - TD. Again, the throw - outside to Walker down the right sideline. However, comeback routes only work when Smith has time - and Ryan wasn't going to allow that. The only way to beat the blitz was the same way the Cowboys beat us - quick timing pass over the middle, WR (or TE) matched against a LB in the middle of a zone. The one pass to Davis over the middle was a pick. Smith never threw over the middle to a receiver (not a dump off to a RB or outlet or flip) again.

I'm not saying I hate Alex Smith or he didn't play well for Alex Smith. However, I do believe after watching him enough, he isn't good at a traditional WCO that can throw timing slants off 3-step drops, hitting WR or TE in stride - specifically for beating the blitz. I'm not saying this loss is Smith's fault. There's a lot of blame to go around. I'm just saying Smith is limited or being limited in what can (or being asked) to do. The frustration with the OL has more to do with the running game IMHO, than pass protection. The sacks that I saw excepts for maybe 2 or 3 of them came off of 5 or 7 step drops which, probably wasn't the best thing to do. Both of Smith's TD passes came off of quick throws - he knew immediately his match up and the pass came out almost immediately despite the Cowboy blitz.

Harbaugh's trust may be more of a wider issue than just Smith - but the entire offense (including the OL). It's not a webzone manufactured story. It was Maiocco who penned the first article shortly after the game called "Harbaugh doesn't trust the Offense" and then the OP references an article about AS having a "Glass Jaw". Why aren't the 49ers calling traditional WCO routes more often. We know they exist - Ginn's slant. We have two very good slot receivers and slot patterns were run, but when did Smith regularly throw there? Certainly not after the half.

Again, not bashing Smith - I just don't think he will ever become a timing, slot throwing, throw-the-receiver-open QB. And against decent defenses that can effectively run-blitz, clog the running lanes, and rush the passer, this will consistently stall our offense.... Until Smith makes the D pay for blitzing. It may work for a half, but at some point, the 49ers are going to have to make teams pay for their adjustments.

I see what you're saying and I'm not saying you're entirely wrong BUT...I'm just giving Harbaugh more credit than figuring all of this out after a couple games. I'm just saying...HE SAID he watched "every snap" Alex too as a 49er and as a Ute and thought he was a) worth bringing back b) installing this offense and making Alex his starter.

And now all of a sudden Smith's skill set doesn't suit that particular offense? Harbaugh would be the biggest idiot of all time if that's his reasoning.

I agree with what you said though about Harbaugh maybe not "trusting" the offense as a whole. But even then..that's something he needs to iron out WITH THE OFFENSE and Greg Roman. We HAD this game.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
There is a great deal of nonsense in some of these posts. Smith can't be trusted to throw a quick slant (although he completed the only one called) but he can throw a very difficult sideline pass to Ginn that Dwight Clark said was one of the most difficult throws to make. The Int is a place where Smith has consistently hit VD over the years so you can't just say it's an area of weakness. Bad throw? Yes, but just a bad throw, not a tendency.

Smith's yards would have been much better in each game if the D hadn't held on two excellent TD throws. The 9ers got the yardage, but Smith did not. If you ignore these types of facts then you may be an Alexbasher of little merit. I was very surprised by several key plays Smith made including bad snap, scramble and throw down the field, his runs, and his taking a pounding but not wimping out. Was he in pain? You can believe he was, but it never showed.

As far as Smith being handed everything on a silver platter, or whatever the phrase was, BS. He was handed the keys to a bad offense with no experience. That is not the way to bring in a rookie. Rodgers had the advantage of sitting, learning, absorbing, and then playing. He still looked pretty bad his first year as a starter in many games.

The D and the OLine lost this game, plan and simple. Those who want to harp about Smith should examine their motives.

Exactly.

I just think it's far fetched to think despite everything going on (close game, down by 3 or up by 10, in the red zone, etc)....Harbaugh just looks @ Alex and goes: "Don't trust, lol"

Originally posted by Nuns:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by WINiner:
You are welcome to your opinion. You can throw out all the stats and name all the other parts of the team that failed. From the moment alex threw that dumb pick the play calls got real conservative and the Cowboys captured and kept momentum.

We were winning with game in hand, Alex throws the pick and things go down hill. Period.

Considering he came right back and threw another touchdown, your argument doesn't hold much water.

Considering that TD did nothing to the momentum of the game, yes it would, if it were an argument. It isn't it, is my opinion and will not change.

This team will continue to suck long as GJ is the starting QB. We will always put up mediocre records against teams lesser talented teams and we will always compete well enough against good teams to make a good showing of it.

We will never be a consistently good team long as GJ QB's this team. We will ALWAYS have the momentum sapping, opponent assuring, boneheaded play that will break our hearts, regardless of how the rest the team plays.

That play was sooooooo basic that it is the shining beacon of proof that Glass Jaw just doesn't get it. Had GJ thrown the the right spot on the field it would have been a nice gainer and we put that game away, instead he throws to the obvious BAD spot on the field and the Cowboys are confident cause they too know Alex can't beat them and take the game over.

While I love having JH as our coach, cause I think he has a great career ahead of him, I hate him for bringing Glass Jaw Smith back for another round of fail.

I thought GJ made some amazing throws on Sunday. That laser to Kyle Williams missed the DB's hand by less than an inch. That throw to Delanie on the move was a thing of beauty. He hit Morgan twice in stride, once while being laid out. His dart to Braylon on the first 3rd down conversion was on the money and in stride (just rewatched the game) and Braylon made the mistake of stopping and cost himself a few yards.

I thought he looked pretty good for playing without any run game whatsoever. I'm not impressed with 180 yards, but he executed well within the playcalling. Old GJ looked pretty quick on the run up the middle where he took a hit from the safety and almost got the first down where we took the long field goal over the penalty. Gutsy run.

I miss Taylor Mays right now. Could he be worse than "frenchy" Madieu?

Never said he can't make plays. He can and does, and that's why he's a heart breaker. He performs juuuust well enough that he sticks on the team.

People say he has been held back by multiple coordinators? I think he's fortunate to never have a guy around long enough to realize that there is no saving this guy. He just doesn't have "IT". Alex is a good guy and someone you want to see succeed, but he is incapable of being a consistent winning QB because it takes special combination of personality, toughness, and skill to do os in the NFL and he just doesn't possess the required combination of said skills.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
So how is it nonsense that a QB has an innate ability to throw certain passes over others? There are MANY QBs who are deadly at the medium passes (between 8 - 12 yards) but struggle at shorter passes, or even touch passes. That's not nonsense at all. I think Smith is EXCELLENT at the medium seam passes and when moving to his right is crazy accurate down field (deflected pass in the endzone where Dallas was called for PI). This does not mean he's good at quick 3-step, no-look, throw-the-receiver open type pass.

I'm not blaming Smith - again. I'm just saying the opposing defense was designed to take away what he was doing well at the half - which is understandable and any DC worth his salt would do. However, to argue that Smith can perform every throw reliably (he only threw one slant by the way and only because the receiver cleanly beat his guy and was wide open, a pre-snap read), is just not realistic. That's all I'm saying and it limits how you can counter defensive adjustments.

Again, let's not oversimplify what's going with this team - it's wasn't just the D and the OL. Sure if the D had stayed stout the entire game we would have won. Sure if the OL provided Smith with perfect protection we would have won. Sure if the OL could counter Dallas' obvious game planning to stop the run we would have won.

But consider this .... why is it always on the OL and the D to always come through for 4 quarters every game, all the time yet it's completely okay for the offense and the passing game to disappear for an entire half? Romo was just as beat up - probably more than Smith and still found holes against a fierce pass-rush against our defense. This wasn't a fluke since he did the same thing against the Jets the week before. I agree Smith did all he could or was allowed to do BUT that doesn't mean at times it will be enough to win. Can we improve other areas? Sure. However it's clear what our game plan is/was given this week which was very similar to last week.

Some weeks people criticize Smith for not being able to make the long throws to the sidelines and many examples were given of QBs who excelled there. Smith throws a great pass to the sidelines that Dwight Clark raves about and now Smith can't throw a slant. Never mind that he had thrown a very good slant early in the game, now he is incapable of throwing a slant. Next week it will be the shuttle pass. Just not using specifics and isolating Smith's real difficulties, which seem to be disappearing...almost. Touch on the short passes--much better. Loft on the medium and long passes--less of a problem but still a work in progress. I'm not saying he is perfect, just that many of his bashers are not rational in their criticism.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
So how is it nonsense that a QB has an innate ability to throw certain passes over others? There are MANY QBs who are deadly at the medium passes (between 8 - 12 yards) but struggle at shorter passes, or even touch passes. That's not nonsense at all. I think Smith is EXCELLENT at the medium seam passes and when moving to his right is crazy accurate down field (deflected pass in the endzone where Dallas was called for PI). This does not mean he's good at quick 3-step, no-look, throw-the-receiver open type pass.

I'm not blaming Smith - again. I'm just saying the opposing defense was designed to take away what he was doing well at the half - which is understandable and any DC worth his salt would do. However, to argue that Smith can perform every throw reliably (he only threw one slant by the way and only because the receiver cleanly beat his guy and was wide open, a pre-snap read), is just not realistic. That's all I'm saying and it limits how you can counter defensive adjustments.

Again, let's not oversimplify what's going with this team - it's wasn't just the D and the OL. Sure if the D had stayed stout the entire game we would have won. Sure if the OL provided Smith with perfect protection we would have won. Sure if the OL could counter Dallas' obvious game planning to stop the run we would have won.

But consider this .... why is it always on the OL and the D to always come through for 4 quarters every game, all the time yet it's completely okay for the offense and the passing game to disappear for an entire half? Romo was just as beat up - probably more than Smith and still found holes against a fierce pass-rush against our defense. This wasn't a fluke since he did the same thing against the Jets the week before. I agree Smith did all he could or was allowed to do BUT that doesn't mean at times it will be enough to win. Can we improve other areas? Sure. However it's clear what our game plan is/was given this week which was very similar to last week.

Our pass rush was anything but fierce 1 sack compared to the 6 we gave up. If Edwards is going to miss time, we are in deep do do, we need the big receivers out there to fight for the ball.