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I say we try nate davis with first team offense

I say we try nate davis with first team offense

Originally posted by pantstickle:
Yes, he would play against Dallas' first team D, if Dallas' first team D were playing (and caring). See, this is how the overreacting starts.

I disagree with you somewhat here. While The Cowboys are most likely not going to be playing defense using their week 1 packages, they will leave the starters in for a while. Ware is going to be around the QB, and I don't expect it will be an easy outing for Davis at all. Our offense hasn't exactly been passing through air with Hill or Smith at the controls, so why would Davis be able to do that?
[ Edited by 49erFan on Aug 26, 2009 at 1:16 PM ]
OK, here's something to ponder. True he was playing against the Raider scrubs (though we should also mention that the O-line and other offensive players around him were also scrubs).

You can argue that his decision making should have been easier, and maybe that his receivers should have been more open. And maybe even say that he benefited from a secondary that probably don't react as quickly as the first stringers. The good thinking, judgment, and poise in the pocket we all saw could definitely be attributed to who he was playing against. I cannot argue that. But carrying those things over to the first string just comes with more reps and experience.

But when I watched that game, compared to both Smith and Hill, Davis had better form, better technique (yes even taking the snap from center), threw the ball with zip when needed, with touch when needed, and had a better spiral (gloves and funny grip were going to be a problem?). None of those things have much to do with who you're playing against. They have everything to do with your abilities.

I also notice that no one is disputing that he performed better than Hill or Smith in that game. They are just arguing that he did so because of this or that. And honestly, you cannot automatically say he would perform better against a "real" NFL defense. But neither can you honestly and definitively say he wouldn't. There is no body of evidence for it yet, no data yet. So let's not go overboard and throw Hill and Smith to the sidelines for the season and bring in Davis from day 1. But let's also not assume that he sucks and has no chance because he came from a small school and has a learning disability.

I don't think he should start a regular season game yet, hell I think I read where he got all of 4 pass attempts the first few days of training camp, and even Manning needs more than that to play well. But I think he has more talent than the others and once he learns the system (and his learning disability will not be a significant problem) and gets comfortable with the speed of the game over time, he will easily out perform them. Probably not this year, but soon.

Something else. He came from the MAC, where other serious NFL QBs have emerged. He is right up there in the record books with the likes of Leftwich and Roethlisberger. And he got all of his numbers in three years. Last time I checked, Ben had more than one ring on his finger and is considered a great one by many.

I just don't see what is so terrible about seeing what he can handle with the starters in a pre-season game. Especially when starting QBs hardly ever play more than one series in the fourth pre-season game anyway. Smith's thumb is messed up and he shouldn't be playing. If you like Huard, that's great, so do I, but his positives are that he has the experience and we know what he does with/against the first string. Sing may know who the starter is, but maybe he needs to see Nate play with the first string to decide if he gets a roster spot or goes to the practice squad. I would hate for Sing to make that decision based on assumptions, like many of the folks here are throwing out. I would hope those decisions would be based on actual performance.
He may get his change with the 1st team on Saturday if injuries keep out Smith and Hill.
Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
OK, here's something to ponder. True he was playing against the Raider scrubs (though we should also mention that the O-line and other offensive players around him were also scrubs).

You can argue that his decision making should have been easier, and maybe that his receivers should have been more open. And maybe even say that he benefited from a secondary that probably don't react as quickly as the first stringers. The good thinking, judgment, and poise in the pocket we all saw could definitely be attributed to who he was playing against. I cannot argue that. But carrying those things over to the first string just comes with more reps and experience.

But when I watched that game, compared to both Smith and Hill, Davis had better form, better technique (yes even taking the snap from center), threw the ball with zip when needed, with touch when needed, and had a better spiral (gloves and funny grip were going to be a problem?). None of those things have much to do with who you're playing against. They have everything to do with your abilities.

I also notice that no one is disputing that he performed better than Hill or Smith in that game. They are just arguing that he did so because of this or that. And honestly, you cannot automatically say he would perform better against a "real" NFL defense. But neither can you honestly and definitively say he wouldn't. There is no body of evidence for it yet, no data yet. So let's not go overboard and throw Hill and Smith to the sidelines for the season and bring in Davis from day 1. But let's also not assume that he sucks and has no chance because he came from a small school and has a learning disability.

I don't think he should start a regular season game yet, hell I think I read where he got all of 4 pass attempts the first few days of training camp, and even Manning needs more than that to play well. But I think he has more talent than the others and once he learns the system (and his learning disability will not be a significant problem) and gets comfortable with the speed of the game over time, he will easily out perform them. Probably not this year, but soon.

Something else. He came from the MAC, where other serious NFL QBs have emerged. He is right up there in the record books with the likes of Leftwich and Roethlisberger. And he got all of his numbers in three years. Last time I checked, Ben had more than one ring on his finger and is considered a great one by many.

I just don't see what is so terrible about seeing what he can handle with the starters in a pre-season game. Especially when starting QBs hardly ever play more than one series in the fourth pre-season game anyway. Smith's thumb is messed up and he shouldn't be playing. If you like Huard, that's great, so do I, but his positives are that he has the experience and we know what he does with/against the first string. Sing may know who the starter is, but maybe he needs to see Nate play with the first string to decide if he gets a roster spot or goes to the practice squad. I would hate for Sing to make that decision based on assumptions, like many of the folks here are throwing out. I would hope those decisions would be based on actual performance.
why are you quoting yourself?

Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
OK, here's something to ponder. True he was playing against the Raider scrubs (though we should also mention that the O-line and other offensive players around him were also scrubs).

You can argue that his decision making should have been easier, and maybe that his receivers should have been more open. And maybe even say that he benefited from a secondary that probably don't react as quickly as the first stringers. The good thinking, judgment, and poise in the pocket we all saw could definitely be attributed to who he was playing against. I cannot argue that. But carrying those things over to the first string just comes with more reps and experience.

But when I watched that game, compared to both Smith and Hill, Davis had better form, better technique (yes even taking the snap from center), threw the ball with zip when needed, with touch when needed, and had a better spiral (gloves and funny grip were going to be a problem?). None of those things have much to do with who you're playing against. They have everything to do with your abilities.

I also notice that no one is disputing that he performed better than Hill or Smith in that game. They are just arguing that he did so because of this or that. And honestly, you cannot automatically say he would perform better against a "real" NFL defense. But neither can you honestly and definitively say he wouldn't. There is no body of evidence for it yet, no data yet. So let's not go overboard and throw Hill and Smith to the sidelines for the season and bring in Davis from day 1. But let's also not assume that he sucks and has no chance because he came from a small school and has a learning disability.

I don't think he should start a regular season game yet, hell I think I read where he got all of 4 pass attempts the first few days of training camp, and even Manning needs more than that to play well. But I think he has more talent than the others and once he learns the system (and his learning disability will not be a significant problem) and gets comfortable with the speed of the game over time, he will easily out perform them. Probably not this year, but soon.

Something else. He came from the MAC, where other serious NFL QBs have emerged. He is right up there in the record books with the likes of Leftwich and Roethlisberger. And he got all of his numbers in three years. Last time I checked, Ben had more than one ring on his finger and is considered a great one by many.

I just don't see what is so terrible about seeing what he can handle with the starters in a pre-season game. Especially when starting QBs hardly ever play more than one series in the fourth pre-season game anyway. Smith's thumb is messed up and he shouldn't be playing. If you like Huard, that's great, so do I, but his positives are that he has the experience and we know what he does with/against the first string. Sing may know who the starter is, but maybe he needs to see Nate play with the first string to decide if he gets a roster spot or goes to the practice squad. I would hate for Sing to make that decision based on assumptions, like many of the folks here are throwing out. I would hope those decisions would be based on actual performance.
sorry, tried to edit, and apparently hit "quote" link instead of "edit"...couldn't find delete option for the second.
Jimmy Raye already stated that it was a very trimmed down number of plays that Davis ran. He will not start because there are other players on this offense that need to work on executing more than the 10-15 plays he had. The rest of the players on this offense have probably forgotten more plays than Davis has learned up to this point and to start him would be a complete regression of thier chemistry, flow, and execution.

Davis will be good, but his time to start is not now. Be patient. We don't need to throw a guy in just because he shows a couple of things with minimal plays learned.

Hill MUST go for this game as the team will finally go into a game that is not regular season with an actual starting QB and they all need live reps together.


Originally posted by mrgneissguy:
OK, here's something to ponder. True he was playing against the Raider scrubs (though we should also mention that the O-line and other offensive players around him were also scrubs).

You can argue that his decision making should have been easier, and maybe that his receivers should have been more open. And maybe even say that he benefited from a secondary that probably don't react as quickly as the first stringers. The good thinking, judgment, and poise in the pocket we all saw could definitely be attributed to who he was playing against. I cannot argue that. But carrying those things over to the first string just comes with more reps and experience.

But when I watched that game, compared to both Smith and Hill, Davis had better form, better technique (yes even taking the snap from center), threw the ball with zip when needed, with touch when needed, and had a better spiral (gloves and funny grip were going to be a problem?). None of those things have much to do with who you're playing against. They have everything to do with your abilities.

I also notice that no one is disputing that he performed better than Hill or Smith in that game. They are just arguing that he did so because of this or that. And honestly, you cannot automatically say he would perform better against a "real" NFL defense. But neither can you honestly and definitively say he wouldn't. There is no body of evidence for it yet, no data yet. So let's not go overboard and throw Hill and Smith to the sidelines for the season and bring in Davis from day 1. But let's also not assume that he sucks and has no chance because he came from a small school and has a learning disability.

I don't think he should start a regular season game yet, hell I think I read where he got all of 4 pass attempts the first few days of training camp, and even Manning needs more than that to play well. But I think he has more talent than the others and once he learns the system (and his learning disability will not be a significant problem) and gets comfortable with the speed of the game over time, he will easily out perform them. Probably not this year, but soon.

Something else. He came from the MAC, where other serious NFL QBs have emerged. He is right up there in the record books with the likes of Leftwich and Roethlisberger. And he got all of his numbers in three years. Last time I checked, Ben had more than one ring on his finger and is considered a great one by many.

I just don't see what is so terrible about seeing what he can handle with the starters in a pre-season game. Especially when starting QBs hardly ever play more than one series in the fourth pre-season game anyway. Smith's thumb is messed up and he shouldn't be playing. If you like Huard, that's great, so do I, but his positives are that he has the experience and we know what he does with/against the first string. Sing may know who the starter is, but maybe he needs to see Nate play with the first string to decide if he gets a roster spot or goes to the practice squad. I would hate for Sing to make that decision based on assumptions, like many of the folks here are throwing out. I would hope those decisions would be based on actual performance.
And I say we try Gio Carmazzi with the first team offense...
If Hill and Smith can't go, I don't see a problem with Huard and Davis each getting a half under their belt. And of course a big dose of Gore, Coffee and Sheets.
Originally posted by Robert:
And I say we try Gio Carmazzi with the first team offense...

Hill is our starter for the season and I don't want that to change. If he's able to start on saturday then he should.

But I will say that I'd be a lot more excited about watching a preseason game against Dallas with Davis starting than I would with Huard starting. Not because I think Davis would do better, but because I'm more interested in seeing how he does than seeing how Huard does.
Originally posted by Joecool:


Hill MUST go for this game as the team will finally go into a game that is not regular season with an actual starting QB and they all need live reps together.



Really? MUST? I really don't think it would be that big of a deal if Hill just rested and got 100%. I think a healthy back is a higher priority than 20 odd snaps.
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
Originally posted by Robert:
And I say we try Gio Carmazzi with the first team offense...

Hill is our starter for the season and I don't want that to change. If he's able to start on saturday then he should.

But I will say that I'd be a lot more excited about watching a preseason game against Dallas with Davis starting than I would with Huard starting. Not because I think Davis would do better, but because I'm more interested in seeing how he does than seeing how Huard does.

Unfortunately, I think Gio Carmazzi probably knows more plays than Davis does at this point. Given that preseason is about evaluating players by putting them in different positions, in the third preseason game, you need to put in a QB who can run as much of the offense as possible (ideally, your starters).

I was just making a crack about Garmazzi, obviously. But IF Hill and Smith can't go, then Huard has to start the game to give the players the best simulation possible. The point is moot anyway, Hill's gonna start: http://www.nfl.com/preseason/story?id=09000d5d81228ddb&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true
Originally posted by thojess:
Originally posted by Joecool:


Hill MUST go for this game as the team will finally go into a game that is not regular season with an actual starting QB and they all need live reps together.



Really? MUST? I really don't think it would be that big of a deal if Hill just rested and got 100%. I think a healthy back is a higher priority than 20 odd snaps.

For them to come out sharper on Game 1, yes, he must start this game and they need to work as a real regular season team.
Originally posted by Robert:
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
Originally posted by Robert:
And I say we try Gio Carmazzi with the first team offense...

Hill is our starter for the season and I don't want that to change. If he's able to start on saturday then he should.

But I will say that I'd be a lot more excited about watching a preseason game against Dallas with Davis starting than I would with Huard starting. Not because I think Davis would do better, but because I'm more interested in seeing how he does than seeing how Huard does.

Unfortunately, I think Gio Carmazzi probably knows more plays than Davis does at this point. Given that preseason is about evaluating players by putting them in different positions, in the third preseason game, you need to put in a QB who can run as much of the offense as possible (ideally, your starters).

I was just making a crack about Garmazzi, obviously. But IF Hill and Smith can't go, then Huard has to start the game to give the players the best simulation possible. The point is moot anyway, Hill's gonna start: http://www.nfl.com/preseason/story?id=09000d5d81228ddb&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Hell, why don't we call Rattay or even Jeff George. I heard something about George saying he's still better than most QB's in the league.
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