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Arguments for Alex Smith and Shaun Hill to Start

Edit: And by comparing a gimp QB with plantar fasciitis with Shaun Hill are you implying that Hill plays like a gimp quarterback?
[ Edited by Mospeed on Oct 18, 2009 at 9:13 PM ]
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.

We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Actually, Smith was a big reason why we were going 3 and out that year. It wasnt necessariloy that he was being pressured, but rather that he opted to throw it out of bounds on 3rd (instead of giving his receivers a chance) or throwing underneath for a 3 yard gain when it was 3rd and long. If you go back to the stats, you'll see that a lot of games Smith's stats would be somewhere along 15/22 169 yards 0 TDs 0 INTs, and you guys would be raving about his accuracy. What you failed to acknowledge is that our offense was anemic, and Smith was a big reason for it. Not to mention that is the same year that Gore broke the team's rushing record.

Not a double standard at all, IMO. This oline is a much different line from that one...

Smith didn't play last year!!! JTO was the one throwing the ball away on 3rd and 4th down. Damn Smith haters have so much hatred for Smith they even blame the guy for games he didn't even play in


Are you lost ? Please re-read the above posts.........
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.

We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Lot's of those plays were his fault, he over threw/under threw a lot, he did show off a good arm at times, but his biggest nemesis has been inconsistency.

It's not like Hill is throwing lasers behind his receivers or above them, Hill's passes are very catch able, he has touch (unlike Alex), the ATL game and Minnesota, plenty of catch able balls were being dropped, as you saw Singletary some of the receivers out, not Hill; calling out the oline, not Hill.

It seems to me that Singletary doesn't give a f**k what your position, name, round you got drafted in, he wants football players, and if Hill has been so awful, I'm pretty certain he would've called him out as well.
  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 31,447
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.
  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 31,447
Originally posted by Mospeed:
So who's idea was it to compare Eli, who has a Superbowl win to Hill? LOL.



I take it you didn't read the whole reply??
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.


We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Who's saying anything like that??

Look at the difference in drop balls, one receiver complains about the pass looking like a punt (I haven't seen that complaint yet) but he can't even catch the ball. Go back and look at the drops from 2006-2007 to this year and compare ball placement.

BTW, where's Hill's 1,700 yard rusher at?? Is it me or did Hill have more rushing yards than our RB this past game?? You simply can't say that this OL is much better than the one that had big Larry Allen in 2006.

And yes I will blame Raye, when he keeps running 1-2 yard rushing calls every 1st and 2nd down, then expect a predictable pass play on 3rd to get us through the game.

Smith had a lot of excellent passes in both years, including one that many remember in the 2007 opener that was dropped in the end zone. Battle's fumble not only cost Smith a TD, it almost cost the 49ers the game. But on top of that, even in games where Smith made a couple not-so-perfect passes, I was not disappointed in the least, because I did NOT expect Smith -- a 21-year old QB starting for the first -- to come and set the world on fire.

The team as a whole -- aside from Gore (who we all know likes Smith) -- offensive players, defense, and coaches included, did not offer a great deal of help to Smith in their contributions to the team's success. I do NOT want to see ANYone try and claim Hill has a worse team that Smith did, just to justify any subpar play by Shaun. If Shaun cannot succeed this year, I will not make excuses for him, nor will I for any other QB.

I did not at all say this year's OL is better. I wasn't comparing statistics or anything or measuring how often each was sacked. My comments were presented situationally, meaning in situations where Hill is sacked or pressured and can't make the throw, the OL seemingly takes all the blame from fans now instead of Hill. Smith gets no such favor. I'm speaking about things that I've been seeing for a loooong time, which stretch far beyond the beginning of this season.

Come on, man. Hill makes some ugly, ugly throws. We all know that. Hill does not throw a pretty ball. I can't agree at all that Hill's "placement" of the ball has been significantly better than Smith's. Such judgments are highly subjective.

If Hill is playing so bad without Gore, why is no one saying "Gore must be carrying Hill. Look at the difference." ? Hill's 1700 yard rusher is on the team. If you were tracking Gore -- after week 2 -- He would've been on pace for almost 1900 yards. But of course, that's skewed, so let's add his 4 yards from week three before getting hurt. Then he's on pace for 1300 yards. Okay, how about we put it in between -- 1600 yards..

Everyone knows Gore is the heart of this team and a big contributor on offense, but please don't downplay any good play by our QB just because of Gore's individual accomplishments.

And now, if Raye is running, does he have less trust in Hill than Turner had in Smith?

So many reasons to believe that this supposed superiority of Hill implied by fans, simply does not exist.
So who's idea was it to compare Eli, who has a Superbowl win to Hill? LOL.
[ Edited by Mospeed on Oct 18, 2009 at 2:52 PM ]
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,447
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?

Gore has been winning football games as well, so has Isaac Bruce and Vernon Davis, see where I'm going with this??
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?

Gore has been winning football games as well, so has Isaac Bruce and Vernon Davis, see where I'm going with this??

I understand your point. But one person thinking logically doesn't make it the normal ideology amongst fans. Look at the loss against the falcons. Everyone blamed Hill. Why do you think that is? Could it be because the QB is the face of the franchise? It is the same thing as when a company fails. The CEO is the one that gets blamed. Even though it is still a team effort. You catch my drift?
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?

Gore has been winning football games as well, so has Isaac Bruce and Vernon Davis, see where I'm going with this??

I understand your point. But one person thinking logically doesn't make it the normal ideology amongst fans. Look at the loss against the falcons. Everyone blamed Hill. Why do you think that is? Could it be because the QB is the face of the franchise? It is the same thing as when a company fails. The CEO is the one that gets blamed. Even though it is still a team effort. You catch my drift?

Everyone blamed Hill??? hahaha.... the only people who blamed Hill for that Falcons lost are the SAME 6-10 Hill complainers/Alex fanatics.....and some who just feel the season is lost (5 games into the season ) and would rather give playing time to the other QBs just too see if we need a QB in the 1st round next year.

Everyone blamed Hill?....again
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?

Gore has been winning football games as well, so has Isaac Bruce and Vernon Davis, see where I'm going with this??

I understand your point. But one person thinking logically doesn't make it the normal ideology amongst fans. Look at the loss against the falcons. Everyone blamed Hill. Why do you think that is? Could it be because the QB is the face of the franchise? It is the same thing as when a company fails. The CEO is the one that gets blamed. Even though it is still a team effort. You catch my drift?

???????

Ok, outside of the webzone, nobody with real credit around the team has blamed Hill. THE COACHES has called out the Oline, they have b***hed at the receivers for dropping balls, they have b***hed at Coffee for not running hard enough, but nobody has yet to sit Hill down and tell him you suck, step it up.

This sounds more like a Sandiego49er post

[ Edited by TheG0RE49er on Oct 18, 2009 at 2:53 PM ]
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,447
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.


We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Who's saying anything like that??

Look at the difference in drop balls, one receiver complains about the pass looking like a punt (I haven't seen that complaint yet) but he can't even catch the ball. Go back and look at the drops from 2006-2007 to this year and compare ball placement.

BTW, where's Hill's 1,700 yard rusher at?? Is it me or did Hill have more rushing yards than our RB this past game?? You simply can't say that this OL is much better than the one that had big Larry Allen in 2006.

And yes I will blame Raye, when he keeps running 1-2 yard rushing calls every 1st and 2nd down, then expect a predictable pass play on 3rd to get us through the game.

Smith had a lot of excellent passes in both years, including one that many remember in the 2007 opener that was dropped in the end zone. Battle's fumble not only cost Smith a TD, it almost cost the 49ers the game. But on top of that, even in games where Smith made a couple not-so-perfect passes, I was not disappointed in the least, because I did NOT expect Smith -- a 21-year old QB starting for the first -- to come and set the world on fire.

The team as a whole -- aside from Gore (who we all know likes Smith) -- offensive players, defense, and coaches included, did not offer a great deal of help to Smith in their contributions to the team's success. I do NOT want to see ANYone try and claim Hill has a worse team that Smith did, just to justify any subpar play by Shaun. If Shaun cannot succeed this year, I will not make excuses for him, nor will I for any other QB.

I did not at all say this year's OL is better. I wasn't comparing statistics or anything or measuring how often each was sacked. My comments were presented situationally, meaning in situations where Hill is sacked or pressured and can't make the throw, the OL seemingly takes all the blame from fans now instead of Hill. Smith gets no such favor. I'm speaking about things that I've been seeing for a loooong time, which stretch far beyond the beginning of this season.

Come on, man. Hill makes some ugly, ugly throws. We all know that. Hill does not throw a pretty ball. I can't agree at all that Hill's "placement" of the ball has been significantly better than Smith's. Such judgments are highly subjective.

If Hill is playing so bad without Gore, why is no one saying "Gore must be carrying Hill. Look at the difference." ? Hill's 1700 yard rusher is on the team. If you were tracking Gore -- after week 2 -- He would've been on pace for almost 1900 yards. But of course, that's skewed, so let's add his 4 yards from week three before getting hurt. Then he's on pace for 1300 yards. Okay, how about we put it in between -- 1600 yards..

Everyone knows Gore is the heart of this team and a big contributor on offense, but please don't downplay any good play by our QB just because of Gore's individual accomplishments.

And now, if Raye is running, does he have less trust in Hill than Turner had in Smith?

So many reasons to believe that this supposed superiority of Hill implied by fans, simply does not exist.

You see we could go round and round with this without EVER coming to an agreement. Sure Smith had a few nice passes here and there, but if you go back and look its always too little too late, in other words when the game is out of reach or when we are behind. Sometimes like Hill, it takes Smith a while to settle down and sometimes he never does, then tends to look indecisive and timid throughout games. Its pretty much the same, with Smith as in Hill, if things aren't clicking on all cylinders as a team Smith more times than not cannot function as you've just seen in Hill this past Sunday.

Why is no one saying Gore is carrying Hill, well, because he isn't, go back and look at the first three games before he was injured. The running game was (is) very inconsistent, and releases no pressure from Hill. Sure Gore had a good game vs. Seattle, but aside from his two 75 yard runs, it was very inconsistent. But nonetheless, Hill does manage to come through with drives every now and then to HELP this team, and yet, I see people even denying that.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?

Gore has been winning football games as well, so has Isaac Bruce and Vernon Davis, see where I'm going with this??

I understand your point. But one person thinking logically doesn't make it the normal ideology amongst fans. Look at the loss against the falcons. Everyone blamed Hill. Why do you think that is? Could it be because the QB is the face of the franchise? It is the same thing as when a company fails. The CEO is the one that gets blamed. Even though it is still a team effort. You catch my drift?

Everyone blamed Hill??? hahaha.... the only people who blamed Hill for that Falcons lost are the SAME 6-10 Hill complainers/Alex fanatics.....and some who just feel the season is lost (5 games into the season ) and would rather give playing time to the other QBs just too see if we need a QB in the 1st round next year.

Everyone blamed Hill?....again

If people weren't blaming hill then why is this thread around?
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?

Gore has been winning football games as well, so has Isaac Bruce and Vernon Davis, see where I'm going with this??

I understand your point. But one person thinking logically doesn't make it the normal ideology amongst fans. Look at the loss against the falcons. Everyone blamed Hill. Why do you think that is? Could it be because the QB is the face of the franchise? It is the same thing as when a company fails. The CEO is the one that gets blamed. Even though it is still a team effort. You catch my drift?

Everyone blamed Hill??? hahaha.... the only people who blamed Hill for that Falcons lost are the SAME 6-10 Hill complainers/Alex fanatics.....and some who just feel the season is lost (5 games into the season ) and would rather give playing time to the other QBs just too see if we need a QB in the 1st round next year.

Everyone blamed Hill?....again

If people weren't blaming hill then why is this thread around?

You notice how it says EVERYONE?