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Russell Wilson VS Colin Kaepernick

What I really want to know is who would win in a knife fight...
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by HUGGY:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I would like to to focus more on the way they throw the ball if I may. I have been paying very close attention to Kaep's tendencies and I would like to see whether you might have noticed the same.

What I've found is Kaep tends to throw the ball with a much flatter trajectory. For short to intermediate distance passes it makes perfect sense as they are darts type throws. The ball essentially shoots passed tight windows and so forth. However, for the deeper passes and in particular fades, I don't know whether it is by tendency or lacking in technique, the trajectory also seems somewhat flatter than most other QBs' throws without much air under the ball. Ideally, I would imagine you would want the ball to land close to vertical as possible which makes it far easier for the receiver to catch without having to extend the body in a big way. Because Kaep's ball trajectory tends to be flatter, as such the ball tends to land in a much shallower angle with the ball almost going away from the receiver which makes it harder to catch. If you look at Russell Wilson's deep balls, they tend to be high balls with more of an inverted U-shaped trajectory. Flacco's deep balls are the same.

Like I said, I don't know whether it is a technique or tendency issue. It could also be an issue of touch. Personally, I would like to see a higher ball from Kaep for those deep throws as I believe it will help to increase the completion % of such big plays.

Any thoughts ?

I agree. When the deep ball noses over right into the hands of a WR I get a semi. RW throws a sexy deep ball.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/videos/Russell-Wilson-on-the-art-of-the-deep-ball/da86da75-ccdf-4e53-b59f-06638962d1cf

Kaep doesn't arc it too much right now, but lets not get crazy.

According to PFF, Kaepernick has the highest completion % in the NFL on passes over 20 yards. He HAS been able to show touch on passes (and I could show you had my Kaep vid on youtube not been pulled by the NFL). Two passes come to mind in particular...in his first start vs the Bars on monday night he threw what might be one of the prettiest passes I've ever seen. Into tight coverage, over the receivers shoulder, running away from him....perfect placement to Kyle Williams. That throw just made my jaw drop.

The second was vs the Packers to Vernon Davis. Deep pass. As Aikman said "he couldn't have placed it better if he'd ran up and handed it to him".

No, he doesn't have that rainbow pass right now, but he's one of the most ACCURATE deep ball throwers I've ever seen. He just doesn't throw jump balls.

against the packers his pass as he was rolling out to frank gore that turned into a huge gain was also a pass that had great touch on it. it came right after his pick 6 too.
Originally posted by ChipDouglas510:
What I really want to know is who would win in a knife fight...

Wilson would bring a blade that is slightly shorter than other successful knives, Kap brings the bazooka attached to his right shoulder... Game over!
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by HUGGY:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I would like to to focus more on the way they throw the ball if I may. I have been paying very close attention to Kaep's tendencies and I would like to see whether you might have noticed the same.

What I've found is Kaep tends to throw the ball with a much flatter trajectory. For short to intermediate distance passes it makes perfect sense as they are darts type throws. The ball essentially shoots passed tight windows and so forth. However, for the deeper passes and in particular fades, I don't know whether it is by tendency or lacking in technique, the trajectory also seems somewhat flatter than most other QBs' throws without much air under the ball. Ideally, I would imagine you would want the ball to land close to vertical as possible which makes it far easier for the receiver to catch without having to extend the body in a big way. Because Kaep's ball trajectory tends to be flatter, as such the ball tends to land in a much shallower angle with the ball almost going away from the receiver which makes it harder to catch. If you look at Russell Wilson's deep balls, they tend to be high balls with more of an inverted U-shaped trajectory. Flacco's deep balls are the same.

Like I said, I don't know whether it is a technique or tendency issue. It could also be an issue of touch. Personally, I would like to see a higher ball from Kaep for those deep throws as I believe it will help to increase the completion % of such big plays.

Any thoughts ?

I agree. When the deep ball noses over right into the hands of a WR I get a semi. RW throws a sexy deep ball.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/videos/Russell-Wilson-on-the-art-of-the-deep-ball/da86da75-ccdf-4e53-b59f-06638962d1cf

Kaep doesn't arc it too much right now, but lets not get crazy.

According to PFF, Kaepernick has the highest completion % in the NFL on passes over 20 yards. He HAS been able to show touch on passes (and I could show you had my Kaep vid on youtube not been pulled by the NFL). Two passes come to mind in particular...in his first start vs the Bars on monday night he threw what might be one of the prettiest passes I've ever seen. Into tight coverage, over the receivers shoulder, running away from him....perfect placement to Kyle Williams. That throw just made my jaw drop.

The second was vs the Packers to Vernon Davis. Deep pass. As Aikman said "he couldn't have placed it better if he'd ran up and handed it to him".

No, he doesn't have that rainbow pass right now, but he's one of the most ACCURATE deep ball throwers I've ever seen. He just doesn't throw jump balls.

against the packers his pass as he was rolling out to frank gore that turned into a huge gain was also a pass that had great touch on it. it came right after his pick 6 too.

Also, the pass to Delani Walker vs. the Patriots (which was his 3rd read) was lofted over the trailing safety. Delani took a weird angle to the ball, which is why he fell over during the catch, but it resulted in a TD.

Now, on the flip side, against SEA, he threw a 'loft' to VD and VD got hit big by Chancellor (I think it was him). If that ball had more velocity, it would have been a TD, not an incompletion.

And other example, vs. NE his TD to Crabtree between 2 defenders (30yd pass) had to be a frozen rope to get pass coverage, which he did and it was a perfect pass.

My point is, he does have the ability to loft passes, but his decision making on when to throw the fastball vs. the changeup is the real key.
Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Now, on the flip side, against SEA, he threw a 'loft' to VD and VD got hit big by Chancellor (I think it was him). If that ball had more velocity, it would have been a TD, not an incompletion.

And other example, vs. NE his TD to Crabtree between 2 defenders (30yd pass) had to be a frozen rope to get pass coverage, which he did and it was a perfect pass.

My point is, he does have the ability to loft passes, but his decision making on when to throw the fastball vs. the changeup is the real key.

Right. I think he was purposely taking something off that pass to Davis in Seattle. When he has more confidence that Davis can handle his fastballs, that one gets there long before Chancellor can react which is what he did with Crabtree in NE. That's the real value of those fastballs - they put the safeties in a very risky position - if the safety goes one way just a little, he has no chance to get back to a pass going the other way.
Another Seattle fan chiming in on this one.

This is a really crazy, and interesting debate. I can't recall a similar situation where two teams could have a debate where each fan base is 100% behind their teams QB and wouldn't trade for the other teams under any circumstance. Perhaps New England & Indy with Manning vs. Brady for all those years? We also have a similar debate with our coaching staffs, which makes this even more interesting.

As for the QB debate, SF fans want to talk about Kaepernicks athletic ability and potential. Seattle fans want to talk about Wilsons elusiveness, work ethic, and intangibles.

SF fans want to compare Kaepernicks 1st 10 games to Wilsons 1st 10 games. Seattle fans want to point out Kaepernick had over a year to learn the offense, and got playing time prior to taking over as a starter.

SF fans seem to think Wilson will "come back to earth next year." Seattle fans seem to think Kaepernick will "come back to earth next year."

I personally think everyone is correct. I am in Wilsons camp though. I suspect if I were a SF fan () I'd be in Kaepernicks camp. This obviously isn't an argument that can be won or lost on here though.

My perspective, and what put me in Wilsons camp eventually, is why I am so high on him now and looking down the road. I think you have to compare how they both came to their teams, and what they've done since getting there. Kaepernick was drafted in the 2nd round I believe?? With the talk, as I recall, of him becoming the eventual starter. I don't recall how he played in pre-season as a rookie, I just seem to remember Harbaugh giving Smith a vote of confidence, and didn't really hear much from Kaepernick until he started getting some snaps throughout this last season, then eventually taking over after Smith was injured. This obviously isn't meant as a slight to Kaepernick, players are drafted where they're drafted, and they do with what they can with the opportunities they're given. He was given an opportunity when the starter got hurt, and he didn't give it back up. To the point that the team was willing to trade away the previous starter.

Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round, was viewed as a potential solid back up, and a change of pace guy by just about everyone, "that may some day become a starter in this league," but was viewed by most teams to be too short to have any true success. I personally was pretty high on Flynn, and hoped they would name him the starter out of training camp. I thought he played well enough in the pre season to win the job. I was impressed with Wilson in the pre season, but thought it was a huge mistake when they named him the starter. By week 2 or 3, I was screaming that they had to go to Flynn or this season would be a loss. However, watching Wilson over the course of the season, watching interviews, his demeanor, and reading about how he conducted himself and played as the QB, regardless of being a rookie, where he was drafted, or what the circumstances were in a game, I eventually completely did a 180 on him. I have been a die hard fan, bordering on obsessive, since this teams inception. I have watched a lot of bad football, and a little good football. Seattle has never had a player like Wilson. He has what Joe Montana, and Michael Jordan had. They had, and he has an inate ability to win. Period. For a player to come in and win the starting job as a rookie, win over his teamates, and win in this league, win on the road in the playoffs (almost back to back), and mount the comebacks he did throughout the season is nothing short of remarkable.

To me that's what it comes down to. Perhaps Kaepernick has it too, but what I did see is Kaepernick look rattled in Seattle, and he seemed to struggle making adjustments at the line resulting in TO's or a lot of delay penalties. Maybe I'm overblowing it, but I never saw Wilson rattled. Ever. Not down by 14 on the road at Washington in the playoffs, and not down by 20 on the road at Atlanta in the playoffs. He is freaky calm. And wierd/good things happen when he has the ball in his hands. I couldn't be more thrilled to have him as my teams QB, or more impressed with the scouting/coaching staff seeing it in him and having the huevos to start him and ride it out with him.

As I said, this is my view as a Seattle fan. I thinks it is pretty freakin awesome that our teams are continuing to build on a pretty fun rivalry. We had a little rivalry with the Rams when we were on our run in the early 2000's, but it's nice to develop some hate for another team in the division too.
Originally posted by GNielsen:
Originally posted by NinerBuff:

Now, on the flip side, against SEA, he threw a 'loft' to VD and VD got hit big by Chancellor (I think it was him). If that ball had more velocity, it would have been a TD, not an incompletion.

And other example, vs. NE his TD to Crabtree between 2 defenders (30yd pass) had to be a frozen rope to get pass coverage, which he did and it was a perfect pass.

My point is, he does have the ability to loft passes, but his decision making on when to throw the fastball vs. the changeup is the real key.

Right. I think he was purposely taking something off that pass to Davis in Seattle. When he has more confidence that Davis can handle his fastballs, that one gets there long before Chancellor can react which is what he did with Crabtree in NE. That's the real value of those fastballs - they put the safeties in a very risky position - if the safety goes one way just a little, he has no chance to get back to a pass going the other way.

I agree about Vernon's hands on downfield balls, he has always had suspect hands. Where Crabs does have much better hands. Maybe that played into it. I still think there's room for improvement. That, and sometimes taking a little off on short passes, (a la Frank Gore vs. GB) which was a perfect pass that resulted in a huge 3rd down conversion.
Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
You know, I just went through some of this thread and I have come to the conclusion that I hate you. You know, like dog poop that gets on your shoe and you can't really get it all off, that kind of hate. All the best, and please don't drive too fast; I would hate to read about your recent death on one of our highways!

Go Frickin Niners~!

hmmm, sorry to hear that.. guess we won't be hanging out any time soon.. how will i get through the day?
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by HUGGY:
Originally posted by Rascal:
I would like to to focus more on the way they throw the ball if I may. I have been paying very close attention to Kaep's tendencies and I would like to see whether you might have noticed the same.

What I've found is Kaep tends to throw the ball with a much flatter trajectory. For short to intermediate distance passes it makes perfect sense as they are darts type throws. The ball essentially shoots passed tight windows and so forth. However, for the deeper passes and in particular fades, I don't know whether it is by tendency or lacking in technique, the trajectory also seems somewhat flatter than most other QBs' throws without much air under the ball. Ideally, I would imagine you would want the ball to land close to vertical as possible which makes it far easier for the receiver to catch without having to extend the body in a big way. Because Kaep's ball trajectory tends to be flatter, as such the ball tends to land in a much shallower angle with the ball almost going away from the receiver which makes it harder to catch. If you look at Russell Wilson's deep balls, they tend to be high balls with more of an inverted U-shaped trajectory. Flacco's deep balls are the same.

Like I said, I don't know whether it is a technique or tendency issue. It could also be an issue of touch. Personally, I would like to see a higher ball from Kaep for those deep throws as I believe it will help to increase the completion % of such big plays.

Any thoughts ?

I agree. When the deep ball noses over right into the hands of a WR I get a semi. RW throws a sexy deep ball.

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-photos/videos/Russell-Wilson-on-the-art-of-the-deep-ball/da86da75-ccdf-4e53-b59f-06638962d1cf

Kaep doesn't arc it too much right now, but lets not get crazy.

According to PFF, Kaepernick has the highest completion % in the NFL on passes over 20 yards. He HAS been able to show touch on passes (and I could show you had my Kaep vid on youtube not been pulled by the NFL). Two passes come to mind in particular...in his first start vs the Bars on monday night he threw what might be one of the prettiest passes I've ever seen. Into tight coverage, over the receivers shoulder, running away from him....perfect placement to Kyle Williams. That throw just made my jaw drop.

The second was vs the Packers to Vernon Davis. Deep pass. As Aikman said "he couldn't have placed it better if he'd ran up and handed it to him".

No, he doesn't have that rainbow pass right now, but he's one of the most ACCURATE deep ball throwers I've ever seen. He just doesn't throw jump balls.

against the packers his pass as he was rolling out to frank gore that turned into a huge gain was also a pass that had great touch on it. it came right after his pick 6 too.

Also, the pass to Delani Walker vs. the Patriots (which was his 3rd read) was lofted over the trailing safety. Delani took a weird angle to the ball, which is why he fell over during the catch, but it resulted in a TD.

Now, on the flip side, against SEA, he threw a 'loft' to VD and VD got hit big by Chancellor (I think it was him). If that ball had more velocity, it would have been a TD, not an incompletion.

And other example, vs. NE his TD to Crabtree between 2 defenders (30yd pass) had to be a frozen rope to get pass coverage, which he did and it was a perfect pass.

My point is, he does have the ability to loft passes, but his decision making on when to throw the fastball vs. the changeup is the real key.


Yep, that was why I questioned whether it is a case of technique or tendency (in your term decision making). I don't know whether you might agree, Kaep's natural tendency is to throw the fast ball in a lot of cases. And because of that, in some cases it had caused picks or near picks. As for his lofts, I still think there is much room for improvement as it will require more touch than sheer power and speed which he has in spades.
Originally posted by maltz88:
To me that's what it comes down to. Perhaps Kaepernick has it too, but what I did see is Kaepernick look rattled in Seattle, and he seemed to struggle making adjustments at the line resulting in TO's or a lot of delay penalties. Maybe I'm overblowing it, but I never saw Wilson rattled. Ever. Not down by 14 on the road at Washington in the playoffs, and not down by 20 on the road at Atlanta in the playoffs. He is freaky calm. And wierd/good things happen when he has the ball in his hands. I couldn't be more thrilled to have him as my teams QB, or more impressed with the scouting/coaching staff seeing it in him and having the huevos to start him and ride it out with him.

As I said, this is my view as a Seattle fan. I thinks it is pretty freakin awesome that our teams are continuing to build on a pretty fun rivalry. We had a little rivalry with the Rams when we were on our run in the early 2000's, but it's nice to develop some hate for another team in the division too.

1st off, welcome and good post.

You were right that Kaep did look flustered against SEA, but that was the only time that happened. Like Wilson, he had several instances where he could have faltered and he stepped up...

  • After NE had an all-time comeback with Brady, he calmly goes out and throws a game-winning TD.
  • After throwing a very ill-advised pass on his 2nd attempt in the playoffs, he comes back and has a performance for the ages.
  • Being down 17 on the road in ATL, comes back and has a flawless 2nd half (if Crabtree doesn't fumble on the 1/2 yard line, he would have had a perfect QB rating)
  • Being down 28-6 in the SUPERBOWL, stages a huge comeback, that unfortunately came up 5 yards short, but given they were down 22 points, it was still pretty f-ing impressive.

So, back to your comment, yes he did have a bad game, and he does struggle with making adjustments and getting plays in on time (hopefully remedied this offseason). But those are really the only 2 blemishes on his resume.

I am a die-hard 49ers fan, but I will be the first to admit that Wilson is right now, a top 10, if not top 5 QB in the league. He has everything you want (minus size, which as we know may be overblown). But Kaep has more potential, and that's hard to argue too. Who knows who will be better. It will probably come down to who avoids the serious injuries more. Hopefully both guys can have long careers, but given their style of plays, and the fact that most QBs have serious injuries in their careers, a lot will come down to luck too
Originally posted by maltz88:
Another Seattle fan chiming in on this one.

This is a really crazy, and interesting debate. I can't recall a similar situation where two teams could have a debate where each fan base is 100% behind their teams QB and wouldn't trade for the other teams under any circumstance. Perhaps New England & Indy with Manning vs. Brady for all those years? We also have a similar debate with our coaching staffs, which makes this even more interesting.

As for the QB debate, SF fans want to talk about Kaepernicks athletic ability and potential. Seattle fans want to talk about Wilsons elusiveness, work ethic, and intangibles.

SF fans want to compare Kaepernicks 1st 10 games to Wilsons 1st 10 games. Seattle fans want to point out Kaepernick had over a year to learn the offense, and got playing time prior to taking over as a starter.

SF fans seem to think Wilson will "come back to earth next year." Seattle fans seem to think Kaepernick will "come back to earth next year."

I personally think everyone is correct. I am in Wilsons camp though. I suspect if I were a SF fan () I'd be in Kaepernicks camp. This obviously isn't an argument that can be won or lost on here though.

My perspective, and what put me in Wilsons camp eventually, is why I am so high on him now and looking down the road. I think you have to compare how they both came to their teams, and what they've done since getting there. Kaepernick was drafted in the 2nd round I believe?? With the talk, as I recall, of him becoming the eventual starter. I don't recall how he played in pre-season as a rookie, I just seem to remember Harbaugh giving Smith a vote of confidence, and didn't really hear much from Kaepernick until he started getting some snaps throughout this last season, then eventually taking over after Smith was injured. This obviously isn't meant as a slight to Kaepernick, players are drafted where they're drafted, and they do with what they can with the opportunities they're given. He was given an opportunity when the starter got hurt, and he didn't give it back up. To the point that the team was willing to trade away the previous starter.

Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round, was viewed as a potential solid back up, and a change of pace guy by just about everyone, "that may some day become a starter in this league," but was viewed by most teams to be too short to have any true success. I personally was pretty high on Flynn, and hoped they would name him the starter out of training camp. I thought he played well enough in the pre season to win the job. I was impressed with Wilson in the pre season, but thought it was a huge mistake when they named him the starter. By week 2 or 3, I was screaming that they had to go to Flynn or this season would be a loss. However, watching Wilson over the course of the season, watching interviews, his demeanor, and reading about how he conducted himself and played as the QB, regardless of being a rookie, where he was drafted, or what the circumstances were in a game, I eventually completely did a 180 on him. I have been a die hard fan, bordering on obsessive, since this teams inception. I have watched a lot of bad football, and a little good football. Seattle has never had a player like Wilson. He has what Joe Montana, and Michael Jordan had. They had, and he has an inate ability to win. Period. For a player to come in and win the starting job as a rookie, win over his teamates, and win in this league, win on the road in the playoffs (almost back to back), and mount the comebacks he did throughout the season is nothing short of remarkable.

To me that's what it comes down to. Perhaps Kaepernick has it too, but what I did see is Kaepernick look rattled in Seattle, and he seemed to struggle making adjustments at the line resulting in TO's or a lot of delay penalties. Maybe I'm overblowing it, but I never saw Wilson rattled. Ever. Not down by 14 on the road at Washington in the playoffs, and not down by 20 on the road at Atlanta in the playoffs. He is freaky calm. And wierd/good things happen when he has the ball in his hands. I couldn't be more thrilled to have him as my teams QB, or more impressed with the scouting/coaching staff seeing it in him and having the huevos to start him and ride it out with him.

As I said, this is my view as a Seattle fan. I thinks it is pretty freakin awesome that our teams are continuing to build on a pretty fun rivalry. We had a little rivalry with the Rams when we were on our run in the early 2000's, but it's nice to develop some hate for another team in the division too.

Good post.

To address a few of the things you said...

1) Obviously we are SF fans and you are a Seattle fan and we are more apt to like out own QBs. I do honestly believe tho (just as I'm sure you do) that I'd pick our guy.

2) If you think SF fans are only excited about Kaeps "athletic ability and potential", then you are missing the boat. The running ability? Awesome. The huge arm? Fantastic. Here's the thing tho....neither of those are his best attribute. His best attribute is his NERVE. He doesn't rattle. You say he was rattled in Seattle? No, he wasn't. The issue he had with getting the ball off is more complicated than that.

The 49ers offense is set to ALWAYS take all the time off the clock. They will set...look at the D...make some shifts...and try to force the D to declare all before the snap of the ball. What happened in Seattle has more to do with not getting the play in with enough time to get everything done. Does Kaep have something to do with that? To be fair, yes, but it wasn't nearly as simple as "he got rattled".

To illustrate my point about his nerve, he nearly knocked off Boise St. in his first college start. He lost....but the score was like 67-65 or something like that. He later went on to BEAT Boise St. Now if you know nothing about college football (not saying you don't...I honestly don't know), you'd say "So?". Boise St is the King of that level of college football. Beating them was ENORMOUS.

In his first PRO start, he went against a Bears D that was supposedly among the best in the NFL. The game was setup as a clash of titans....and then they both lost their QBs. in that first pro game under the lights (Monday Night Football), he had a QB rating over 130 and threw one of the prettiest passes I've ever seen (50+ yarder to Kyle Williams. He then went into the Superdome and beat at that time "the hottest team in the NFL". He later went into New England IN DECEMBER and threw 4 TDs.

When the playoffs rolled around everyone thought he would get crushed by the pressure. He started that game with a pick 6 and the media was like "see, he's gonna crack". Instead, He passed for 263 yards, threw 2 TDs, ran for 181 yards and scored 2 more times on the ground. It was one of the more impressive playoff games in playoff history.

He then got down by 17 in Atlanta and never blinked. He took them all the way back. Even when Crabtree fumbled on the one, he never gave up and just kept on trucking.

In the Super Bowl he was down by 22 point...and. never. gave. up. He had them 5 yards from the largest comeback in Super Bowl history. I dion't think people understand this one. He started in teh Super Bowl in his TENTH CAREER START and nearly pulled off the biggest comeback that game has ever seen. The Super Bowl has made HOF QBs wilt under the pressure (see Elway, John), yet this kid in the tenth start was unfazed by it.

Don't trust me on this one? How about Terrell Suggs.
Also...work ethic. The due was back in Atlanta 1.5 weeks after the Super Bowl. Why? He was working out with NFL rookies who were preparing for the draft. He took a few of his SF WRs with him including 1st rounder AJ Jenkins.
3) Kaep was a 2nd round pick (and the 49ers traded up to get him), but the reason he didn't start as a rook was that he was RAW. He played his entire college career in the Pistol and hadn't taken a snap from center since high school. He flashed in the preseason of his rookie year, but he was never going to be the starter. Alex Smith had organized workouts with the team to install the offense during the lockout. That Lockout is another reason why Kaep never really had a chance as a rook. Once Alex came in....they went 13-3. You're first move after going 13-3 and almost going to the SB typically isn't to replace the starter.
It was pretty clear tho in the offseason that the 49ers viewed kaep as the long term answer. They flirted with Manning who would only play for a few years and eventually signed Alex to a contract that made it easy to let him walk. They knew what they had in Kaep, but they didn't know he was ready.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Apr 8, 2013 at 11:11 AM ]
This is a little off topic, but related in that it has to do with receptions. Vernon Davis has never laid out for a ball in his life. When he is sprinting downfield and a pass comes falling out of the sky or zipping by for that matter Vernon does not dive to make the catch. He has an extremely UPRIGHT running posture where he almost looks stiff. I have seen many passes over the years drop two feet out of his reach where he made no effort to EXTEND to get the ball.
As a long time beach volleyball tournament player I excelled at defense and that requires full-sprint dives with full body extension. Fail to do that and you simply do not reach countless balls.
Injuries from diving are rare. If you want evidence of the effectiveness of laying out for passes just watch any football game. Someone will be doing it successfully. Coach the receivers to dive for balls!
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
I agree about Vernon's hands on downfield balls, he has always had suspect hands. Where Crabs does have much better hands. Maybe that played into it. I still think there's room for improvement. That, and sometimes taking a little off on short passes, (a la Frank Gore vs. GB) which was a perfect pass that resulted in a huge 3rd down conversion.


I wouldn't say Vernon has suspect hands. That 60 mph fast ball does take some getting used to if it broke Randy's finger twice. But, I do agree that he can take a little off for those short passes.

Honestly, Kaep's fast ball has become somewhat infamous amongst the receiving corp. Think about how many people have spoken about it already ? Randy, Vernon and Frank. I think it was Kyle who said during practice, the receivers would literally count their turns to catch the ball, in that they would line up in the queue accordingly with a preference of catching it from Alex and Scott thereby avoiding Kaep's throws.Vernon said when he uses the Jug machine, he has to turn it all the way up to 100 to prepare himself for Kaep's throws. But, that's OK, they are getting used to it by now. They should all be fine when this season starts. I just want Kaep to perfect on his fades.
Originally posted by NinerBuff:
Also, the pass to Delani Walker vs. the Patriots (which was his 3rd read) was lofted over the trailing safety. Delani took a weird angle to the ball, which is why he fell over during the catch, but it resulted in a TD.

Now, on the flip side, against SEA, he threw a 'loft' to VD and VD got hit big by Chancellor (I think it was him). If that ball had more velocity, it would have been a TD, not an incompletion.

And other example, vs. NE his TD to Crabtree between 2 defenders (30yd pass) had to be a frozen rope to get pass coverage, which he did and it was a perfect pass.

My point is, he does have the ability to loft passes, but his decision making on when to throw the fastball vs. the changeup is the real key.

Totally agree that this ball should have been fired in there. Said it at the time of the play. But at the same time, if Vernon doesnt do that jumpy catchy thing that he doesn, its also a touchdown (or at the very least, a big completion).
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by ChipDouglas510:
What I really want to know is who would win in a knife fight...

Wilson would bring a blade that is slightly shorter than other successful knives, Kap brings the bazooka attached to his right shoulder... Game over!

"I see you brought a swiss army knife to a bazooka fight..."