2016 NBA Offseason Discussion Thread

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I meant your list and my list werent that far off, not that your list wasnt that far off of the correct answer.....lol

And people sleep on George. He is a star.

I dont disagree at all that Paul George is a great player. I just doubt many would list him ahead of Kawhi. But rankings are always subjective. I root for the guy especially given that horrific injury he suffered.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

I meant your list and my list werent that far off, not that your list wasnt that far off of the correct answer.....lol

And people sleep on George. He is a star.

I dont disagree at all that Paul George is a great player. I just doubt many would list him ahead of Kawhi. But rankings are always subjective. I root for the guy especially given that horrific injury he suffered.

I'm more surprised that Draymond Green is ranked ahead of Kawhi on anyone's list. Kawhi is like a much more athletic Draymond Green who is better at almost every aspect of the game including defense. He's also try top scoring option on his team (or #2 behind Aldridge) while Draymond Green can spend the majority of his energy on defense. In no universe would I even consider putting Draymond Green ahead of Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi is the best player on one of the top 3 teams in the league. Draymond is at best the 3rd best player on his team, but more likely 4th behind Klay Thompson who is extremely valuable for his ability to play off ball, stretch out defenses, and defend.

In my opinion, Kawhi is in the top 5. It's very close between Durant, Kawhi, and Westbrook. Kawhi is the best defender of the 3 and has improved a lot on offense (he was one of better 3 point shooters in the league last year). Saying he's outside of the top 10 is absurd.

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by jrg:

Cleveland Cavaliers coach Ty Lue has agreed to a five-year, $35M extension, league sources tell @TheVertical.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojVerticalNBA) July 25, 2016

Daaamn...he cashed in big time. LeBron should get 90% of that pie tbh

Eh...he deserves it. He out-coached Kerr in the last 3 games.

I remember when posters were dogging the Lue hiring.

Pretty quiet now

lol this. Dude is a pretty good coach. Even though Cavs lost more games under him...I saw very positive changes. It took some time to get the whole team on same page...and mid-April...he had everyone pulling in same direction.

Loved the hiring from the get-go. Brought the right mind-set to the team. Deserves his contract.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
If OKC finishes a top 2 or 3 team in the West and Westbrook leads the league in scoring I do believe he will be right there in the voting. I actually think that Kawhi could win it if SA has another year like last year and he leads the Spurs to another WCF.

Most overrated player in the league. Its crazy how dude went from one of the most underrated players in the world to the most overrated in such a short time. Crazy.

Still a beast though. Top 12 player in the league.

Really? The most overrated player in the league? When you are the 2 time defensive player of the year, average 21 pts per game, 7 rebounds, and by far the best player on the 3rd best team in basketball I dont see how he can be overrated. I put him as a top 8 player minimum.

I think top 8 is fair...but yes, he's over-rated if ppl think he's top 3 player or even close to that.

I'll take 5 players ahead of him right now...easily.

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
CP3

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
I'm more surprised that Draymond Green is ranked ahead of Kawhi on anyone's list. Kawhi is like a much more athletic Draymond Green who is better at almost every aspect of the game including defense. He's also try top scoring option on his team (or #2 behind Aldridge) while Draymond Green can spend the majority of his energy on defense. In no universe would I even consider putting Draymond Green ahead of Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi is the best player on one of the top 3 teams in the league. Draymond is at best the 3rd best player on his team, but more likely 4th behind Klay Thompson who is extremely valuable for his ability to play off ball, stretch out defenses, and defend.

In my opinion, Kawhi is in the top 5. It's very close between Durant, Kawhi, and Westbrook. Kawhi is the best defender of the 3 and has improved a lot on offense (he was one of better 3 point shooters in the league last year). Saying he's outside of the top 10 is absurd.

Kawhi is great in the Spurs system that only requires him to do what he is good at. I give him a lot of credit for taking the open and semi-open 3s and taking the right shots and playing amazing defense. Pop teams are usually elite on defense because he's the best coach...hands down.

He can not run an offense. He is not a play-maker. He does not take over games as frequently as players in top 5 do. I can't put him in top 5 over guys who are multi-dimensional AND can win games pretty much all by themselves. Elite player...just not in top 5.

Had Spurs won 58 games...no one would have thought of him as a top 5 player. Team success should not play that big of a factor.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Kawhi is great in the Spurs system that only requires him to do what he is good at. I give him a lot of credit for taking the open and semi-open 3s and taking the right shots and playing amazing defense. Pop teams are usually elite on defense because he's the best coach...hands down.

He can not run an offense. He is not a play-maker. He does not take over games as frequently as players in top 5 do. I can't put him in top 5 over guys who are multi-dimensional AND can win games pretty much all by themselves. Elite player...just not in top 5.

Had Spurs won 58 games...no one would have thought of him as a top 5 player. Team success should not play that big of a factor.

Just my 2 cents.

Pretty much my thoughts on him. Good player, but he's so good because he's a perfect fit in Pops system. That's not saying he's not a great talent, just that he excels in the system.

I'm not the biggest NBA nut but per my opinion

Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Durant
Klay
Cousins
Davis
Kawhi

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

I'm more surprised that Draymond Green is ranked ahead of Kawhi on anyone's list. Kawhi is like a much more athletic Draymond Green who is better at almost every aspect of the game including defense. He's also try top scoring option on his team (or #2 behind Aldridge) while Draymond Green can spend the majority of his energy on defense. In no universe would I even consider putting Draymond Green ahead of Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi is the best player on one of the top 3 teams in the league. Draymond is at best the 3rd best player on his team, but more likely 4th behind Klay Thompson who is extremely valuable for his ability to play off ball, stretch out defenses, and defend.

In my opinion, Kawhi is in the top 5. It's very close between Durant, Kawhi, and Westbrook. Kawhi is the best defender of the 3 and has improved a lot on offense (he was one of better 3 point shooters in the league last year). Saying he's outside of the top 10 is absurd.

Kawhi is great in the Spurs system that only requires him to do what he is good at. I give him a lot of credit for taking the open and semi-open 3s and taking the right shots and playing amazing defense. Pop teams are usually elite on defense because he's the best coach...hands down.

He can not run an offense. He is not a play-maker. He does not take over games as frequently as players in top 5 do. I can't put him in top 5 over guys who are multi-dimensional AND can win games pretty much all by themselves. Elite player...just not in top 5.

Had Spurs won 58 games...no one would have thought of him as a top 5 player. Team success should not play that big of a factor.

Just my 2 cents.

He's definitely not as good offensively as Westbrook or Durant, but there's no one in the league I'd rather have guarding Lebron James. He's much better than he was back in 2014 when he went toe to toe with Lebron and won Finals MVP.

Leonard was a 50%, 44%, 87% shooter last year averaging almost 2 made 3's a game. Compare that to Draymond Green who was 49%, 39%, and 70% with fewer attempts that were even more open. Green plays in the easiest offensive system to score in because Curry and Thompson command all the attention from defenses. Leonard shooting 87% from the line has nothing to do with Pop's system - he's turned himself into one of the better shooters in the league. Leonard also only averaged 1.5 turnovers a game last year which is remarkable for someone with a 26% usage rate.

There's no way I'd put anyone other than Lebron, Curry, Durant, and Westbrook ahead of Leonard. It's laughable that someone ranked Draymond Green ahead of him. Kawhi was a huge part of the reason the Spurs won 67 games. If anything, people are giving Draymond Green too much credit for the Warriors wins last year because they had two other top 10-12 players contributing to those wins while Kawhi is the only top 10 player on his team.

Kawhi takes games over through his play on. both ends of the floor. He's a huge part of the reason the Spurs are one of the most efficient defensive teams in the league. He and Danny Green are two of the only guys on that team I consider plus defenders and he's turned himself into one of the most efficient offensive players in the league.

What would be interesting is if there was a draft for all players in the league. How would they be picked with obviously age and upside being huge factors. I think Towns would be the unanimous first pick. After him I am not quite sure what the order would be.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

What would be interesting is if there was a draft for all players in the league. How would they be picked with obviously age and upside being huge factors. I think Towns would be the unanimous first pick. After him I am not quite sure what the order would be.

I think the number 1 pick would still be Lebron. He makes any team a title contender. He's still clearly in his prime and would probably give said team a 3-4 year window to win a title.

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
What would be interesting is if there was a draft for all players in the league. How would they be picked with obviously age and upside being huge factors. I think Towns would be the unanimous first pick. After him I am not quite sure what the order would be.

I think the number 1 pick would still be Lebron. He makes any team a title contender. He's still clearly in his prime and would probably give said team a 3-4 year window to win a title.

Wow. I know Lebron is the best player in the world but he is 31 and Towns is 20 and true centers are so hard to find. Have to disagree on this one.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
What would be interesting is if there was a draft for all players in the league. How would they be picked with obviously age and upside being huge factors. I think Towns would be the unanimous first pick. After him I am not quite sure what the order would be.

I think the number 1 pick would still be Lebron. He makes any team a title contender. He's still clearly in his prime and would probably give said team a 3-4 year window to win a title.

Wow. I know Lebron is the best player in the world but he is 31 and Towns is 20 and true centers are so hard to find. Have to disagree on this one.

If the goal is to win an NBA Championship (which I'm guessing it is) then Lebron is still the guy, despite age. He alone makes any team a title contender immediately and that's the most you can ask of from any player. KAT will never have that same effect because really who ever has aside from the greats?

That being said KAT is awesome and love his game (and he can hit FTs!) but even taking age into account he would probably be #3 for me in this draft behind James and Anthony Davis. Davis was a better prospect and is currently a better player (of course he has years in the league on him). He also is only a couple years older than KAT.

Lol u take LeBron #1 no questions asked.

If we keep players locked into their current contracts, I'd go with Towns because he's on a rookie deal and will be a restricted free agent following that deal, so he'd be forced to stay with whatever team drafts him after his rookie deal was up. 7-8 guaranteed years of Towns trumps <=5 guaranteed years of anyone else. Lebron has a one year $30 million player option and then he can go wherever he wants. Towns' contract is much more valuable. Anthony Davis is only 2.5 years older, but he's been in the league 3 years longer and already played out his rookie deal and signed a new contract.

If we supposed everyone gets the same contract for 4-5 years which is followed by unrestricted free agency, then there's an argument for Lebron or Curry because it's hard to say another player will be better than them on average over the next 5 years. Durant, Westbrook, Leonard, and Davis are also guys I'd consider because unrestricted free agents are more likely to re-sign with their existing team than any individual new team once their contract is up and I expect some of them to be better than Lebron in 5 years. Lebron has been the best player in the league the past 9 seasons, but he's getting old and likely won't be the best player in the league 2-3 years from now.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
If we keep players locked into their current contracts, I'd go with Towns because he's on a rookie deal and will be a restricted free agent following that deal, so he'd be forced to stay with whatever team drafts him after his rookie deal was up. 7-8 guaranteed years of Towns trumps <=5 guaranteed years of anyone else. Lebron has a one year $30 million player option and then he can go wherever he wants. Towns' contract is much more valuable. Anthony Davis is only 2.5 years older, but he's been in the league 3 years longer and already played out his rookie deal and signed a new contract.

If we supposed everyone gets the same contract for 4-5 years which is followed by unrestricted free agency, then there's an argument for Lebron or Curry because it's hard to say another player will be better than them on average over the next 5 years. Durant, Westbrook, Leonard, and Davis are also guys I'd consider because unrestricted free agents are more likely to re-sign with their existing team than any individual new team once their contract is up and I expect some of them to be better than Lebron in 5 years. Lebron has been the best player in the league the past 9 seasons, but he's getting old and likely won't be the best player in the league 2-3 years from now.

I was basing my ranking of Towns on current contracts and age. Based on that I would take Towns 1st and probably Davis 2nd.