Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by Tman:
Now this was a big 3
I was thinking the other day that that team had arguably 4 guys on that team where you could say he was the greatest _____ ever.
(arguably)
Jordan was the greatest player ever.
Pippen was the greatest perimeter defender ever.
Rodman was the greatest rebounder ever.
Kerr was the greatest spot up shooter ever.
I guess you never heard of a guy named Wilt Chamberlain?
Tough to compare. Wilt played in an unathletic and short league that averaged 119 PPG while only shooting 41-42% from the field for most of his career.
How do you average 119 PPG while shooting 41%? By shooting a TON of shots. There were way, way more possessions in Wilt's era than there are now.
The average team in 1961 got 5,789 rebounds in a 79 game season. In 1991, the average team got 3,547. It's easy to outrebound a guy when there are 63% more available rebounds.
They shot all the fouls. What would now be ball out of bounds with :14 on the shot clock was 1 + 1 (make the first get a second). In the penalty a non shooting foul was 2 shots, like it is now. In the penalty a shooting foul was 3 to make 2. So even though there was no 3pt line, a lot of scoring was done with the clock stopped.
Wilt averaged 22.9 rebounds a game for a career while averaging 30.1 points. If he was like Rodman and just concentrated on rebounding he would have probably averaged 30 a game.
The foul rules are part of what created extra possessions (about 10 extra FTs per game) but they also took a lot more Field Goal Attempts (over 18 more per game. A lot of extra rebounds were created as a result.
The year Rodman averaged 18.7 RPG, the average team grabbed 43.7 boards per game. By comparison, the year that Wilt grabbed 27.2 RPG (his best) the average team grabbed 73.3 RPG.
How many more boards would Rodman have averaged if there were an extra 59 rebounds available every game? That year he grabbed 26.2% of the available rebounds when he was on the court, so if he continued that pace he would have added an extra 12.9 RPG to his total, putting him at 31.8 RPG. Being that he was getting his boards again bigger/stronger/faster opponents as well, I think you can make a good argument that Rodman is the greatest rebounder ever over Chamberlain.
And while he was no Wilt as an overall player, Rodman was a two-time DPOY and an excellent passer. Even until this day Tex Winter & Phil Jackson say that he picked the triangle offense quicker than any other player they ever coached. He was a brilliant player, it's just that since he didn't score people thought he was a one-trick pony. He was more than that, IMO.
Do the FG attempts today include 3-point attempts? If not then 1991 year only shot 10 less attempts per game than 61-62.
There's many things here that stats don't represent, as always:
1. 61-62: the game was played near or around the key, which results in more crowded space due to less players spacing behind a 3-point line. This causes less open shots and lower percentage with more "tips" or and quickly throwing it towards the basket. Current basketball players grab and "reset" the play which uses more clock.
2. Rodman's type of defense allowed him to seal off more effectively for the rebounds: He wasn't a shot-blocker which means his primary defense was his quickness and staying in front of the scorer and he could easily turn and seal off for the rebound. Wilt was also a shot blocker and a scorer and that would cause any player to not be in primary rebound position.
Ben Wallace was also a shot blocker and if he didn't focus on blocking shots, he would have been in much better position to get more rebounds.
Stats are all hunky dory but everyone who has seen both play knows who will get more rebounds. You put Shaq against Rodman in their prime and tell Shaq to primarily focus on keeping himself between the defender and the basket and he would dominate on the rebounds and defense.
Dennis Rodman is only considered a top level rebounder because that's all he focused on.
Also factor in that he wasn't the scorer getting the primary attention and he was playing with others who were being doubled allowing a lot of clean-up opportunities. Everyone and their momma were probably trying to box Wilt out.
[ Edited by Joecool on May 12, 2011 at 12:15 PM ]
