General NBA Playoff Discussion

Maybe mid level was too strong. Occasional all-star? You can't blame him for the Orlando debacle though, he ran in to the unstoppable buzzsaw of the Dream. LOL, hoinestly even I think that series would have been a whole lot different if even one of those free throws goes in.

Originally posted by TX9R:
Maybe mid level was too strong. Occasional all-star? You can't blame him for the Orlando debacle though, he ran in to the unstoppable buzzsaw of the Dream. LOL, hoinestly even I think that series would have been a whole lot different if even one of those free throws goes in.

I don't think that series would have gone too differently even if Anderson makes his free throws. Dream & Co. were vets that knew how to get it done.

FWIW...Eddie Jones was a 3 time all-star. Penny was a 4 time all star, and Van Exel made an ASG as well. He had chances with less, but Shaq never got it done with anyone but HOF-level wings. And Penny was well on his way to that status before injuries derailed his career.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TheSixthRing:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Someone pointed this out on another forum. Do you realize that unless Boston pulls out a miraculous comeback, this will be the first time since Jordan retired that neither Shaq, Kobe, nor Duncan will be in the Finals?

1999-Duncan
2000- Kobe/Shaq
2001- Kobe/Shaq
2002- Kobe/Shaq
2003- Duncan
2004- Kobe/Shaq
2005- Duncan
2006- Shaq
2007- Duncan
2008- Kobe
2009- Kobe
2010- Kobe

2000 - 2001 should only show as "Shaq".

I never understood why Shaq never got the "never won without..." crap. It's not like he ever won without a first-ballot/no-brainer HOF guard next to him. And Penny was well on his way to being the same thing before he got hurt after Shaq left.

Maybe because the teams he left pretty much crumbled afterwards. During his peak years, I'm convinced you could have pretty much any mid level wing, some good role players and he still would have collected a few rings. Look at when he came along, all the great centers were aging and there just wasn't anyone who could stay with him.

Orlando was a playoff team after Shaq left. Obviously they weren't as good, but they didn't crumble until Penny's injuries started happening. When he left the Lakers, half the team left with him. Gary Payton, Karl Malone, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Horace Grant & Kareem Rush left that year too. The Lakers went into complete rebuilding mode.

Shaq DID have mid-level wings and good role players around him from 96-99. Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Elden Campbell & a young Kobe...and he didn't even get to the Finals.

He also had a star wing in Orlando (Penny) & good role players (Horace Grant, Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson) and didn't do squat there either.

Well, he did lead them to the NBA Finals, albeit getting swept by the Rockets.

Yes, but TX's point was that he would have collected a few rings with mid-level wings and good role players, and I don't think that's the case being that he only even made the Finals once with players that fit that exact description.

It was Dirk. Dude was unguardable on DJK Wurzburg, regardless if it was Snetchel, Gunter, Ludwig or Vilhelm on him...

^

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TX9R:
Maybe mid level was too strong. Occasional all-star? You can't blame him for the Orlando debacle though, he ran in to the unstoppable buzzsaw of the Dream. LOL, hoinestly even I think that series would have been a whole lot different if even one of those free throws goes in.

I don't think that series would have gone too differently even if Anderson makes his free throws. Dream & Co. were vets that knew how to get it done.

FWIW...Eddie Jones was a 3 time all-star. Penny was a 4 time all star, and Van Exel made an ASG as well. He had chances with less, but Shaq never got it done with anyone but HOF-level wings. And Penny was well on his way to that status before injuries derailed his career.

Wow Van Excel made an ASG? Must have been a down year. Jones did make a few, after he left LA and also in a down era, his numbers weren't that great and only once did he average even 20 points. Even you have to admit the timing was good, the post Jordan-era was the post-a-lot-of-really-good players era, look at the Spurs team that won it all in 99. That was arguably the s**ttiest era the NBA ever had. I stand by my opinion that he would have got it done then with a lesser player than Kobe.

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TX9R:
Maybe mid level was too strong. Occasional all-star? You can't blame him for the Orlando debacle though, he ran in to the unstoppable buzzsaw of the Dream. LOL, hoinestly even I think that series would have been a whole lot different if even one of those free throws goes in.

I don't think that series would have gone too differently even if Anderson makes his free throws. Dream & Co. were vets that knew how to get it done.

FWIW...Eddie Jones was a 3 time all-star. Penny was a 4 time all star, and Van Exel made an ASG as well. He had chances with less, but Shaq never got it done with anyone but HOF-level wings. And Penny was well on his way to that status before injuries derailed his career.

Wow Van Excel made an ASG? Must have been a down year. Jones did make a few, after he left LA and also in a down era, his numbers weren't that great and only once did he average even 20 points. Even you have to admit the timing was good, the post Jordan-era was the post-a-lot-of-really-good players era, look at the Spurs team that won it all in 99. That was arguably the s**ttiest era the NBA ever had. I stand by my opinion that he would have got it done then with a lesser player than Kobe.

Well heck, Pau Gasol's only average 20 ppg once, and that hasn't stopped people from contending that he's some amazing player.

Jones made two of his ASG's in LA, alongside Shaq. He was also one of the best perimeter defenders in the league for a good 6-8 year stretch.

Perhaps Shaq could've gotten it done with lesser talent than Kobe or Wade, but he never did even though he had the opportunity. Heck...the Lakers barely got it done in 2000 & 2002. I don't think they beat either Portland or Sacramento with a lesser player than Kobe.

I'd agree that from about 95-02 was one of the weaker stretches in NBA history though.

[ Edited by LA9erFan on May 10, 2011 at 12:26:46 ]

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TX9R:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TX9R:
Maybe mid level was too strong. Occasional all-star? You can't blame him for the Orlando debacle though, he ran in to the unstoppable buzzsaw of the Dream. LOL, hoinestly even I think that series would have been a whole lot different if even one of those free throws goes in.

I don't think that series would have gone too differently even if Anderson makes his free throws. Dream & Co. were vets that knew how to get it done.

FWIW...Eddie Jones was a 3 time all-star. Penny was a 4 time all star, and Van Exel made an ASG as well. He had chances with less, but Shaq never got it done with anyone but HOF-level wings. And Penny was well on his way to that status before injuries derailed his career.

Wow Van Excel made an ASG? Must have been a down year. Jones did make a few, after he left LA and also in a down era, his numbers weren't that great and only once did he average even 20 points. Even you have to admit the timing was good, the post Jordan-era was the post-a-lot-of-really-good players era, look at the Spurs team that won it all in 99. That was arguably the s**ttiest era the NBA ever had. I stand by my opinion that he would have got it done then with a lesser player than Kobe.

Well heck, Pau Gasol's only average 20 ppg once, and that hasn't stopped people from contending that he's some amazing player.

Jones made two of his ASG's in LA, alongside Shaq. He was also one of the best perimeter defenders in the league for a good 6-8 year stretch.

Perhaps Shaq could've gotten it done with lesser talent than Kobe or Wade, but he never did even though he had the opportunity. Heck...the Lakers barely got it done in 2000 & 2002. I don't think they beat either Portland or Sacramento with a lesser player than Kobe.

I'd agree that from about 95-02 was one of the weaker stretches in NBA history though.

Pau's value is greatly inflated by the lack of bigs today. It's not that he's great, he's just one of the current best in a weak field. I coulda swore EJ was in CHA, but you would know better than I. Lastly it Kobe wasn't the difference against Sac, everyone knows it was the refs. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Originally posted by TX9R:
Pau's value is greatly inflated by the lack of bigs today. It's not that he's great, he's just one of the current best in a weak field. I coulda swore EJ was in CHA, but you would know better than I. Lastly it Kobe wasn't the difference against Sac, everyone knows it was the refs. Sorry, couldn't resist.

EJ was in Charlotte and made his other ASG when he was there. He had some good years in Miami too.

Strip club to retire Rodman's jersey

Lol, Rodman

I can't believe Juwan Howard is still playing. Lol

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Strip club to retire Rodman's jersey

Of all the athletes I've ever met, meeting him (& the Bad Boys) back in '88, while in high school, was one of the most enjoyable, funnest experiences ever. The fact that I snuck into the locker room tunnels before the games really contributed the that; especially when Rodman, himself, said: "You don't belong back here." And I replied, "What do you care?"
He gave me his autograph immediately after he stopped laughing. Nothing but love for Old School Dennis (& the Bad Boys).

Now this was a big 3

Originally posted by Tman:
Now this was a big 3

I was thinking the other day that that team had arguably 4 guys on that team where you could say he was the greatest _____ ever.

(arguably)

Jordan was the greatest player ever.
Pippen was the greatest perimeter defender ever.
Rodman was the greatest rebounder ever.
Kerr was the greatest spot up shooter ever.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Tman:
Now this was a big 3

I was thinking the other day that that team had arguably 4 guys on that team where you could say he was the greatest _____ ever.

(arguably)

Jordan was the greatest player ever.
Pippen was the greatest perimeter defender ever.
Rodman was the greatest rebounder ever.
Kerr was the greatest spot up shooter ever.

I guess you never heard of a guy named Wilt Chamberlain?