QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by 49ers81:
I always find it amusing that fans and the pundit class always bring up guys like Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert when talking about prototypical QBs who have all of the physical qualities that Brock "lacks". And I always end up asking myself the same question, how many Super Bowls have those guys gotten to? How many Conference Championships have they won? And all of them have been in the league longer than Brock, and Allen and Jackson, at least, have had fairly decent teams around them. There's more to playing QB in the NFL than being 6'4" and having a big arm and the ability to run over, or around, defenders. Brock's story is still being written, but he's certainly accomplished more, in a shorter period of time, than any of those guys.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
If we're gonna go the route of "accomplishments" then Rex grossman, jimmy G, trent dilfer, Brad Johnson, Nick Foles, Flacco, Kap, Jake Delhomme, Neil O'Donnell, Chris Chandler etc are all "better" than Allen/jackson/herbert etc.

I mean is he saying he'd rather have Jimmy G over Josh Allen/Jackson or Herbert? Last I checked their stories are still being written as well.

Not sure why we have to make up these narratives to pump up our QB? It should be okay to acknowledge his deficiencies (and understand why some people talk about him a certain way) and also recognize he's got other great traits and is still a good QB

Yeah, it's a team sport. It takes a lot to reach the SB and various ways to do it, the qb doesn't do it on their own. Hell sometimes the qb doesn't have to do anything but not make mistakes. lol

ultimately, it's impressive for any starting qb to reach the SB, but that doesn't mean they're better players than others, necessarily.

if you put Josh Allen on the 2002 Bucs, 2000 ravens, 2012 49ers etc and the chances of winning the SB are exponentially improved to win that game.

I agree with that you're saying though. We don't need to tear down other qbs to make a case for why Brock is good. I think very highly of Brock but I also realize there are things he can't do and/or needs to improve upon.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Judging any qb solely off of their stats is disingenuous to their performance, IMO.

mahommes stats have declined but he's had an excellent defense and special teams around him. So they can have a mediocre offense and still always be in the game.

Brock made more mistakes than normal last year but I don't think he was anywhere near the main problem (or a problem at all) for the 49ers.

I've never seen a QB carry a team to success with the following:
1. Worst special teams in the league
2. one of the worst defenses, specifically run defense.
3. Plethora of injuries to key skill players
4. terrible skill player separation. Meaning every throw has to be perfect or it's at high risk of something bad happening. At best, an incompletion and little to zero YAC.

Brock made poor decisions and throws at times, no doubt, but the offense was CONSTANTLY in the hole cause of the ST and D. All season. Brock and a bunch of backups would have had to ball out to win more games. They were essentially left with no room for error - that stress and pressure usually makes offenses make more mistakes.

this whole conversation about Brock declining etc is much more complex than just his stats. Football is the ultimate team sport and every section of the team has big impacts on the other.

To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Yeah, it's a team sport. It takes a lot to reach the SB and various ways to do it, the qb doesn't do it on their own. Hell sometimes the qb doesn't have to do anything but not make mistakes. lol

ultimately, it's impressive for any starting qb to reach the SB, but that doesn't mean they're better players than others, necessarily.

if you put Josh Allen on the 2002 Bucs, 2000 ravens, 2012 49ers etc and the chances of winning the SB are exponentially improved to win that game.

I agree with that you're saying though. We don't need to tear down other qbs to make a case for why Brock is good. I think very highly of Brock but I also realize there are things he can't do and/or needs to improve upon.

Exactly. I like Brock as well, glad he's our starter. I can also reconize why he's not considered a prototypical elite level QB…like we don't have to pretend there lol. He was the last player picked in a draft because of it.

he's proving people wrong and is in the right place to succeed. Like you said we don't have to tear down other QBs because we want ours to look better. Who cares.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Judging any qb solely off of their stats is disingenuous to their performance, IMO.

mahommes stats have declined but he's had an excellent defense and special teams around him. So they can have a mediocre offense and still always be in the game.

Brock made more mistakes than normal last year but I don't think he was anywhere near the main problem (or a problem at all) for the 49ers.

I've never seen a QB carry a team to success with the following:
1. Worst special teams in the league
2. one of the worst defenses, specifically run defense.
3. Plethora of injuries to key skill players
4. terrible skill player separation. Meaning every throw has to be perfect or it's at high risk of something bad happening. At best, an incompletion and little to zero YAC.

Brock made poor decisions and throws at times, no doubt, but the offense was CONSTANTLY in the hole cause of the ST and D. All season. Brock and a bunch of backups would have had to ball out to win more games. They were essentially left with no room for error - that stress and pressure usually makes offenses make more mistakes.

this whole conversation about Brock declining etc is much more complex than just his stats. Football is the ultimate team sport and every section of the team has big impacts on the other.

To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

I think in football, the qb gets too much credit and too much blame, most of the time. They're def the most important position on the team. It's extremely hard to win without good qb play, even if the rest of the roster is solid.

we had a lot of awesome players in 2023 but Brock also made a lot of awesome plays. The team was more cohesive - and honestly I think CMC was what made our offense as good as it was.

I think one of the funnest parts about football is how many variables are at play in every single down that impacts success or failure. You need a lot of things to go right for a play be a success and even more for a team to win a game, and even more to win the SB.

I think Brock is a good qb and will get better. I'm a big fan of him. I also realize that he can't win alone and needs the players around him to play well to give the team a chance to win. The players need good coaching and scheme to get the most out of them. The coaches need a great work environment to coach to their best ability from ownership etc etc.

overall, I'm really excited about Boyer and Saleh. I love some of the rookies we got. I'm really excited to see how these guys gel. Let's hope all phases of the team play at a high level and we are arguing about why we have so much success next season. lol not why we sucked. Haha

Originally posted by NYniner85:
To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

to me the story of 2023, and 2024 is about CMC as much as anything. career year 1 year, absent the next. notice how the team followed. not saying he's the only factor, but he's a major one. pretty absurd drop off in the ability of our backs on pass downs, from him to mason / IG.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's a qb award and our qb was putting up mvp numbers that year. People wanting their qb to win mvp isn't them thinking it's all him. I don't think anybody was claiming him to be an established elite qb in year 1 lol, it just gets under your skin when people use the word elite around his name, and he was putting up elite numbers

Mahomes can't put up the numbers he used to when he had better weapons. Doesn't mean he didn't deserve his mvps

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's a qb award and our qb was putting up mvp numbers that year. People wanting their qb to win mvp isn't them thinking it's all him. I don't think anybody was claiming him to be an established elite qb in year 1 lol, it just gets under your skin when people use the word elite around his name, and he was putting up elite numbers

Mahomes can't put up the numbers he used to when he had better weapons. Doesn't mean he didn't deserve his mvps

it's probably the dumbest award in sports. before brady went off with his late career stuff, this was round 2013, the NFL named jerry rice the #1 all time player. do you know how many NFL MVPs (not SB) he won? zero. in fact no WR in history has won MVP. keep in mind, a kicker won MVP. it's a clown award. it's reduced to pretty much what QB among the playoff teams is statting it up the most. the nfl would be much better served by doing a QB of the year award. then a separate NFL MVP award, among non QBs. it's easy to view last season, the most impactful player on that year, was not josh allen, it was without question saquon.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and it eat it too.

to me the story of 2023, and 2024 is about CMC as much as anything. career year 1 year, absent the next. notice how the team followed. not saying he's the only factor, but he's a major one. pretty absurd drop off in the ability of our backs on pass downs, from him to mason / IG.

CMC is what "unlocks" our offense, IMO. He is the player that makes it easier and more explosive for everyone else. CMC is about as complete of a RB as humanly possible - great blocker, great runner, great routes, great hands.

the stress he single handily puts on defenses makes it easier for everyone else on the field to thrive. Including Brock. He makes Kyle's job easier cause he can call plays with him that he can't get the same defensive stress with a normal RB.

brock is a big key to our offenses success but what made us explosive and unpredictable at the level we were is CMC. He makes it easier for the WR and TEs to get open cause there is a strong attention paid to CMC.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's a qb award and our qb was putting up mvp numbers that year. People wanting their qb to win mvp isn't them thinking it's all him. I don't think anybody was claiming him to be an established elite qb in year 1 lol, it just gets under your skin when people use the word elite around his name, and he was putting up elite numbers

Mahomes can't put up the numbers he used to when he had better weapons. Doesn't mean he didn't deserve his mvps

it's probably the dumbest award in sports. before brady went off with his late career stuff, this was round 2013, the NFL named jerry rice the #1 all time player. do you know how many NFL MVPs (not SB) he won? zero. in fact no WR in history has won MVP. keep in mind, a kicker won MVP. it's a clown award. it's reduced to pretty much what QB among the playoff teams is statting it up the most. the nfl would be much better served by doing a QB of the year award. then a separate NFL MVP award, among non QBs. it's easy to view last season, the most impactful player on that year, was not josh allen, it was without question saquon.

It is what it is. When a teams qb is in contention they want their guy to win (unless they are a hater)

You didn't see half the Ravens fanbase crying about how Henry (who put up more combined yards this year than cmc did in 23) should be mvp instead of Lamar

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
It is what it is. When a teams qb is in contention they want their guy to win (unless they are a hater)

You didn't see half the Ravens fanbase crying about how Henry (who put up more combined yards this year than cmc did in 23) should be mvp instead of Lamar

i want the guy most deserving to win, and i don't want QBs getting all the glory, they already get most of it. i felt in 2023 it was CMC. 2021 when cooper kupp was uncoverable and won triple crown, he should have been MVP. naturally QBs are more important to team success, so it's not apples to apples. they should have their own award. that would solve the issue you talk about.

Originally posted by genus49:
To be fair I hate how some in our fanbase put down QBs for not getting to the SB when they have to go up against the same team we lost to, to get there.

Personally I put more emphasis on how QBs perform in the playoffs because I believe that's when there's more pressure and you're facing the best teams for the most part. That's why I'm so high on Brock. It wasn't always perfect but there was never a game where he looked lost or shell shocked.

However Josh Allen and Lamar are easily in the elite category for me. I'm VERY particular in regards to that elite label so to me there is a group at the top with Mahomes, Allen and Lamar. Joe Burrow is on the outside looking in in his own category.

I do think Justin Herbert is an excellent QB BUT his playoff performances are hard to overlook.

I think there is something to the styles makes fights type of thing. Where we're a lot better vs teams who play heavy zone(look at the Chicago game last year) vs teams who can play heavy press. I don't think that's a Purdy issue either. That's more of our personnel and OL situation though Brock's arm limitations are more likely to come up against that type of defense since the windows are usually smaller and throwing with anticipation is harder. I'm hoping we take a step forward in being able to play better vs those defenses.

Excited to see our young WRs show what they can do but would've loved to add some size out there cuz I do think Brock prefers his receivers on the larger size.

And how have Allen and Jackson performed in the playoffs? Seems to me that has been their Achillies heel ever since they've been in the league. Some people seem to think that I'm knocking these guys or saying that Brock's lack of measurables aren't a thing. It would be great if he were three inches taller and had a bit more velocity on his throws, but the argument seems to be that because Allen, Jackson, and Herbert have all of the physical tools and can throw the ball 60 yards downfield that qualifies as them as elite, even though they have yet to accomplish that other phony metric that people like to throw around in here, which is, "Oh, he's an okay QB but he can't "carry" his team to wins.

I don't think anyone would argue that Dan Marino was one of the most "Elite" QBs to play the game in terms of his ability to theow the ball, and I wouldn't argue that at all, but what did he actually end up accomplishing for the team's legacy beyond putting up some great numbers? And, yes, when judging QBs accomplishments matter, but they're not the only consideration. I don't think anyone is going to mistake guys like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer for elite QBs because they won Super Bowls, but for one season they played well enough to get the job done, which is more than Allen and Jackson have managed.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Judging any qb solely off of their stats is disingenuous to their performance, IMO.

mahommes stats have declined but he's had an excellent defense and special teams around him. So they can have a mediocre offense and still always be in the game.

Brock made more mistakes than normal last year but I don't think he was anywhere near the main problem (or a problem at all) for the 49ers.

I've never seen a QB carry a team to success with the following:
1. Worst special teams in the league
2. one of the worst defenses, specifically run defense.
3. Plethora of injuries to key skill players
4. terrible skill player separation. Meaning every throw has to be perfect or it's at high risk of something bad happening. At best, an incompletion and little to zero YAC.

Brock made poor decisions and throws at times, no doubt, but the offense was CONSTANTLY in the hole cause of the ST and D. All season. Brock and a bunch of backups would have had to ball out to win more games. They were essentially left with no room for error - that stress and pressure usually makes offenses make more mistakes.

this whole conversation about Brock declining etc is much more complex than just his stats. Football is the ultimate team sport and every section of the team has big impacts on the other.

To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Personally I felt stronger about Brock's future after last season. 2023 just showed me he's able to get us to the end if we have a team around him.

Last year showed me that when things are pretty sh*tty he's still going to perform. It may not be MVP talks level play or even willing the team to the playoffs but he didn't crumble out there and had the defense or special teams not been extra special both in some personnel/injuries as well as coaching then we're in the playoffs in all likelihood even with all the disaster on offense.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
To play devils advocate a little, a ton of folks in here were giving Brock the majority of the credit for 2023. Bringing up every amazing stat and talking about MVP voting…calling him elite and here's the numbers to back it up.

The following yr we saw what we saw and a lot of folks blaming everything around him and talked about it being the ultimate team sport.

for me I don't understand why it's gotta be so dramatic one way or the other? Can't have your cake and eat it too.

to me the story of 2023, and 2024 is about CMC as much as anything. career year 1 year, absent the next. notice how the team followed. not saying he's the only factor, but he's a major one. pretty absurd drop off in the ability of our backs on pass downs, from him to mason / IG.

There was a lot more happening last year on offense than just no CMC. He was obviously a critical piece of the offense but that's also on Kyle for putting a lot of his eggs in that one basket. The red zone offense was atrocious early in the season. If not for George I don't know how bad we'd be there overall.

Originally posted by 49ers81:
And how have Allen and Jackson performed in the playoffs? Seems to me that has been their Achillies heel ever since they've been in the league. Some people seem to think that I'm knocking these guys or saying that Brock's lack of measurables aren't a thing. It would be great if he were three inches taller and had a bit more velocity on his throws, but the argument seems to be that because Allen, Jackson, and Herbert have all of the physical tools and can throw the ball 60 yards downfield that qualifies as them as elite, even though they have yet to accomplish that other phony metric that people like to throw around in here, which is, "Oh, he's an okay QB but he can't "carry" his team to wins.

I don't think anyone would argue that Dan Marino was one of the most "Elite" QBs to play the game in terms of his ability to theow the ball, and I wouldn't argue that at all, but what did he actually end up accomplishing for the team's legacy beyond putting up some great numbers? And, yes, when judging QBs accomplishments matter, but they're not the only consideration. I don't think anyone is going to mistake guys like Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer for elite QBs because they won Super Bowls, but for one season they played well enough to get the job done, which is more than Allen and Jackson have managed.

one of the most confusing posts of all time right here. dilfer didn't play 'well enough' to get the job done. that's like saying scott burrell played well enough for chicago bulls to win rings. no, jordan played well enough. burrell happened to be on the team with jordan. that's what happened. dilfer happened to be on a team with ray lewis and that defense. he didn't do anything man.