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Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

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Originally posted by genus49:
Good post. I understand where you're coming from BUT to play devil's advocate I would say I hope we don't see it that often because I hope we don't NEED to see it often.

Basically you want the peace of mind knowing that if things are falling apart that Jimmy can air it out and get us the W. That's certainly fair, everyone wants that peace of mind knowing their QB can get the W at the end. But if the team is playing good enough to not need those big passes to win then I have no issues with it.

And the fact that we have seen the throw to Kittle, the throw to Sanders vs the Rams certainly has given us enough glipses that he can get it done. Cuz you can pick ANY QB in the sport and regardless of who they are there have been games where they had the ball late with a chance to win the game/close the game out and they failed to make the play to do it.

That's exactly what I've been saying. The best way to win is NOT get behind. Pretty simple. But there are those times when your team will be behind late. We saw it against the Chiefs and we saw it at NO last year. We lost the SB but we won the NO game. How? Not from a great pass into the end zone to win the game. Not from a great throw 35 yards downfield along the sideline. It was a 3 yard pass from Jimmy that Kittle turned into a 38 yard gain woth one of the great efforts you'll ever see from a tight end. Then had 15 yards tacked on for a facemask penalty which set up a short FG to win. Yes we won that game but what if Kittle doesn't break all those tackles. What if there isn't a 15 yard penalty. That would leave 50 yards for Jimmy to make up with his arm and there was less than a minute. That's the situation where the big flashy play is often needed in games. I see them every week from more than one team.

The team might get better at those throws if they worked on them more. Right now there are 2 issues. Jimmy doesn't throw them enough to get a good feel for his receivers and the O line is so used to blocking for 2.5 seconds with the short game that they have a little trouble blocking for a deep pass. I don't think it's that the receivers aren't good enough. Aiyuk can get deep and so can Kittle. They just need to get them and Jimmy on the same page like that deep pass to Aiyuk last week. He was wide open and the pass drifted over his right shoulder which took him out of bounds. If the ball is thrown over his left shoulder he had a good chance of taking it in for a TD. It's a small correction that can only improve if they work on it.
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Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
This is correct. Flashy plays > wins to some people. Go root for Matt Ryan, Matt stafford, kyler murray, carson wentz. How many superbowls between them??

There isnt a single person on this board who would pick flashy plays over wins. Try harder.

Lies.

No. Its a stupid argument that people use against anyone who is critical of parts of Jimmys game. We are all 49er fans. The idea that people would want to see a few homerun throws at the expense of winning is laughable and idiotic.

Just because you believe something is laughable and idiotic doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Its not. You guys are interpreting it that way. No one would be good with losing if Jimmy threw a few bombs a game. I cant even fathom how anyone could possibly believe that.

Yeah, I mean, put it this way. Playoffs on the line in week 17. Your options are 500 passing yards with tons of deep touchdowns but lose in a shootout, or win with shorter efficient passing. No deep throws over 20 yards.

The choice is pretty obvious.

Not a single person on this board would choose 500 passing yards. Its an illogical argument that people are running with as fact. Its absolutely idiotic.

I can make an argument for preferring big bombs in a loss over watching a pop warner offense in a win. In the end, it's about being entertained. Whether the 49ers win or lose has zero impact in my real life.

Sure you can.

Problem here is you're talking about average fans that simply watch on tv and go to the games.

A bunch of guys committed to coming to message boards about their team every day certainly dont fit in the demographic you're talking about.

The fans that come on here want to be entertained with another Superbowl run and a chance at winning it if a more dynamic offense takes the field against us. This is why they're concerned early on in the season with trends. Painting it as something else is trying to sidestep what's obvious.

But with Jimmy playing QB there's no way they can get to the Super Bowl so don't you want to see big bombs and be entertained?

[ Edited by SkyZer0 on Oct 30, 2020 at 1:08 PM ]
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Originally posted by SkyZer0:


This is evidence that Kyle is holding back Jimmy. Jimmy was a student at "Throw It Deep University", he didn't attend "Throw It Intermediate University"

https://throwitdeep.com/2020/02/01/a-fantastic-story-of-the-little-guy-that-makes-it-big-how-jimmy-garoppolo-went-from-rolling-meadows-to-eastern-illinois-to-the-super-bowl/
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Right, which would be all fine and good of not the morning after a blowout win people were saying, "would still like to see Jimmy Air it out more deep down the sideline."

So, obviously winning in blowout fashion isn't enough.

If it were, all complaints should be shelved for a week and we all sit in the mutual admiration society happily enjoying handing Bill Belichick his worst loss in Foxborough. Ever.

This, 100%.
Originally posted by SkyZer0:


Nonsense....he's built that entire offensive philosophy due to the lack of ability from the QB....

....or so I'm told.
Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Originally posted by Jiks:
Who TF cares about air yards if what we're doing is successful?! I will never get it besides the fact that most that don't like the west coast style admit to... it's just not exciting. That's all it really comes down to. I mean who doesn't want bombs and 60+ yarders? It's cool but it's not madden.

I believe to be successful in this league, your quarterback needs to be able to win you games.. you need chunk plays, big yardage at a time especially in two minute drills or clutch situations.

Jimmy cant make those throws. Its going to bite us, it already has.

Except when he does make those throws...
Originally posted by genus49:
I don't know about others but I'm quite aware of what air yards mean which is why i typically say air yards or yac yards...i don't give a flying fart.

Do we even know who keeps track of this stuff? Cuz I'd love to see the full list.

Well I thought so lol...no reason to keep bringing up all people want is bombs (I know it's not just you). You know what that stat means.

It's next gen stats...which is run by NFL.com.

What's wrong with having both? (in bold)

Originally posted by genus49:
To me it easily makes sense why we're low in air yards and like I said a few times in here it's not just to protect Jimmy. It's because it also protects our OL and also utilizes the strengths of our pass catchers which is YAC.

Johnydel addressed it as well as did some others - our receiving core for the most part is still inexperienced. While talented the route running isn't there yet.

It's pretty logical to me with all the things involved we are having success going the low air yard option.

1. Jimmy G can use his quick release to get the ball out quickly and there's less for him to worry about(quick decisions help)
2. Our OL doesn't have to block as long. Ball comes out quick and even if they're beaten the ball is hopefully out
3. Defense much harder to play these days and tackling is sloppy all over for the most part - get the ball to your YAC kings and let them work
4. Higher % throws vs low % throws

Considering the roster we had going into this season certainly points me towards thinking we're actually closer to Kyle's offense of preference than one that has a lot more down the field throws.

Think about it - Deebo, Hurd, Kittle, Jordan Reed, Jennings all big bruisers known for their YAC. Even Aiyuk who is likely our best deep threat guy these days made his money at ASU with his YAC.

Don't forget I'm the guy who desperately wanted Ruggs in the draft...so I was all for opening things up but if you remember from those conversations I said it wasn't just his ability to get the ball deep but his ability to threaten teams with it. Aiyuk isn't on that level but hopefully he turns into a guy who at least makes teams worry about it. We don't need Jimmy to throw it deep at the same clip as Wilson/Mahomes to get the offense to scare teams all over the field.

I'm not saying it's all on Jimmy, sure he needs to build more of a connection with Aiyuk and that looks promising. His IAY (avg intended air yards) last yr was 3rd worst as well though (that's with Sanders too). I get the OL isn't a top 10 pass-blocking OL. There's a TON of QBs with bad OL play that are avging almost 3 yards more per attempt though. I bring up ATL and they were the 23rd ranked pass-blocking unit in 2016 (according to FOs). Ryan was avging 9 passing air yards per attempt. Jimmy is avging 6.2 (6.5 last yr).

I just want a more complete passing game. Yes we have YAC monsters at some point there's gonna be a team that can tackle and play great man coverage. Our defense isn't gonna be able to shut down every offense like last yr.....and it's not about just throwing it deep, I'm talking throwing the ball forward at least at avg rate lol. I'm talking about not being the #1 QB who throws short of 1st downs markers . Let's start there lol.

End of the day this is probably the scheme Kyle feels confrontable running with Jimmy. Get the ball out of our QBs hands quickly and let others make plays. I mean do you need to pay a QB $28M to do that? It's a reasonable question...We know Kyle can't win with UDFA level QB play BUT imagine what he can do with top end QB talent

This next month or so is gonna be telling on how Jimmy is as a QB. Our D is like last yr, he's gonna have to move the ball with his arm a little more. I'm excited to see what he's got
[ Edited by NYniner85 on Oct 30, 2020 at 1:37 PM ]
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Originally posted by eastie:
Originally posted by DaBeegDeek:
Originally posted by Jiks:
Who TF cares about air yards if what we're doing is successful?! I will never get it besides the fact that most that don't like the west coast style admit to... it's just not exciting. That's all it really comes down to. I mean who doesn't want bombs and 60 yarders? It's cool but it's not madden.

I believe to be successful in this league, your quarterback needs to be able to win you games.. you need chunk plays, big yardage at a time especially in two minute drills or clutch situations.

Jimmy cant make those throws. Its going to bite us, it already has.

Except when he does make those throws...
Originally posted by thl408:


Simply type the letter(s) to save time in your response:
a) meh over the middle, between the numbers
b) meh, it was a tie game, not down by two touchdowns
c) meh, Rams defense was not good on that play
d) meh, didn't lead the WR for yards after catch
e) meh, that was so last season
f) meh, it wasn't 3rd and 20
g) meh, it wasn't 4th down
h) meh, he didn't scramble around first
i) meh, Wade Phillips is a crap DC and got let go after the season
j) just meh

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Originally posted by NYniner85:
Well I thought so lol...no reason to keep bringing up all people want is bombs (I know it's not just you). You know what that stat means.

It's next gen stats...which is run by NFL.com.

What's wrong with having both? (in bold)

I'm not saying it's all on Jimmy, sure he needs to build more of a connection with Aiyuk and that looks promising. His IAY (avg intended air yards) last yr was 3rd worst as well though (that's with Sanders too). I get the OL isn't a top 10 pass-blocking OL. There's a TON of QBs with bad OL play that are avging almost 3 yards more per attempt though. I bring up ATL and they were the 23rd ranked pass-blocking unit in 2016 (according to FOs). Ryan was avging 9 passing air yards per attempt. Jimmy is avging 6.2 (6.5 last yr).

I just want a more complete passing game. Yes we have YAC monsters at some point there's gonna be a team that can tackle and play great man coverage. Our defense isn't gonna be able to shut down every offense like last yr.....and it's not about just throwing it deep, I'm talking throwing the ball forward at at least and avg rate lol. I'm talking about not being the #1 QB who throws short of 1st downs. Let's start there lol.

End of the day this is probably the scheme Kyle feels confrontable running with Jimmy. Get the ball out of our QBs hands quickly and let others make plays. I mean do you need to pay a QB $28M to do that? It's a reasonable question...We know Kyle can't win with UDFA level QB play BUT imagine what he can do with top end QB talent

This next month or so is gonna be telling on how Jimmy is as a QB. Our D is like last yr, he's gonna have to move the ball with his arm a little more. I'm excited to see what he's got

lol wut

Originally posted by thl408:
This is evidence that Kyle is holding back Jimmy. Jimmy was a student at "Throw It Deep University", he didn't attend "Throw It Intermediate University"

https://throwitdeep.com/2020/02/01/a-fantastic-story-of-the-little-guy-that-makes-it-big-how-jimmy-garoppolo-went-from-rolling-meadows-to-eastern-illinois-to-the-super-bowl/

Yes he's not holding Jimmy back... Jimmy was who he was before he ever got here,... as has been mentioned before recently.

He does keep things in check to mask deficiencies, though. But that's what good coaches do.
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
That's exactly what I've been saying. The best way to win is NOT get behind. Pretty simple. But there are those times when your team will be behind late. We saw it against the Chiefs and we saw it at NO last year. We lost the SB but we won the NO game. How? Not from a great pass into the end zone to win the game. Not from a great throw 35 yards downfield along the sideline. It was a 3 yard pass from Jimmy that Kittle turned into a 38 yard gain woth one of the great efforts you'll ever see from a tight end. Then had 15 yards tacked on for a facemask penalty which set up a short FG to win. Yes we won that game but what if Kittle doesn't break all those tackles. What if there isn't a 15 yard penalty. That would leave 50 yards for Jimmy to make up with his arm and there was less than a minute. That's the situation where the big flashy play is often needed in games. I see them every week from more than one team.

The team might get better at those throws if they worked on them more. Right now there are 2 issues. Jimmy doesn't throw them enough to get a good feel for his receivers and the O line is so used to blocking for 2.5 seconds with the short game that they have a little trouble blocking for a deep pass. I don't think it's that the receivers aren't good enough. Aiyuk can get deep and so can Kittle. They just need to get them and Jimmy on the same page like that deep pass to Aiyuk last week. He was wide open and the pass drifted over his right shoulder which took him out of bounds. If the ball is thrown over his left shoulder he had a good chance of taking it in for a TD. It's a small correction that can only improve if they work on it.

This. Is a damn good post. The bold is the part I agree with the most.

The situation he brings up from NO last year is an excellent point as to why lacking a vertical passing game is gonna bite us in the ass eventually.
[ Edited by PuckFarag10 on Oct 30, 2020 at 1:33 PM ]
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Originally posted by random49er:
Originally posted by thl408:
This is evidence that Kyle is holding back Jimmy. Jimmy was a student at "Throw It Deep University", he didn't attend "Throw It Intermediate University"

https://throwitdeep.com/2020/02/01/a-fantastic-story-of-the-little-guy-that-makes-it-big-how-jimmy-garoppolo-went-from-rolling-meadows-to-eastern-illinois-to-the-super-bowl/

Yes he's not holding Jimmy back... Jimmy was who he was before he ever got here,... as has been mentioned before recently.

He does keep things in check to mask deficiencies, though. But that's what good coaches do.

He is holding Jimmy back. Jimmy graduated from Throw it Deep University. You yourself say he doesn't throw it deep. If Jimmy wanted to throw it short and intermediate all day then he would have gone to Throw It Intermediate University.
Have we agreed on if Jimmy is good yet?
Originally posted by thl408:
lol wut

Wut
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