49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Giedi:
The fact that we didn't even attempt to draft an edge rusher is a big disappointment for me, and for the team to pick a guy who's not going to play at 100% for the next two years is on Saleh

This is ridiculous lol.

Giedi, you're losing it, bro.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think a DC's job is based more on finding defensive talent than scheming talent.

Uh, what?

Defense is more talent based than scheme based. You can scheme zone defense, but if you don't have the horses up front to have a decent run defense - you can't even get to the zone blitz schemes. You can scheme slants and dogs, but if you don't have Linebackers and D Linemen that are agile, mobile, and hostile, they won't be worth much. Scheme is important, don't get me wrong, but I think a DC's job is finding defensive talent, developing said talent, vs scheming the defense with the players they have. (for example) One reason Fangio was such a good DC is because Fangio and Co. were able to get a guy like Aldon. Conversely a guy like Dom Capers, a great coach that can scheme, but he never could find the horses to run a decent run defense.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Giedi:
The fact that we didn't even attempt to draft an edge rusher is a big disappointment for me, and for the team to pick a guy who's not going to play at 100% for the next two years is on Saleh

This is ridiculous lol.

Giedi, you're losing it, bro.

No problem Hero! You da Best!

Oh by the way...

[Wikipedia] Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

Coordinators don't draft players. There's no discussion to be had here.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Re: whether we keep Saleh or not after this yr, of course, it depends on what kind of a D he puts out there. I am pretty certain that Kyle and JL are the ones who make the decision on picks but hope they listen to their DC. More than that, i believe they are truly the "It" when it comes to who picks players. There may be other input, but ultimately they make the decision in my mind.

That said, there is something else in play here, which i have posted previously. And that is, maybe kyle DIDN'T want a Wade Philips or equally good DC. My guess is that kyle wanted his OWN DC and he wanted a guy who was a good position coach, but NOT a previous DC. EVerything on this team has kyle's And john's fingerprints on it...why shouldn't that include kyles' DC?

I believe he wanted a guy who was talented, smart, a true hard worker like kyle, but not yet finished out as a starting DC. KYle wanted to put his imprint on HIS DC. Think about everything else he has done. It is all kyle's way. I think this is a bit of overkill on his part, as i would have loved Wade Phillips to come here. As it turned out, neither he nor fangio nor any other superstar DC was available. All the better for kyle. He just wanted a smart, loyal , able coach, who he could mold into the DC of his own making. This way there never will be a dispute over what type of D kyle wants. He is having it formed as we speak.

As for getting an ER, i think after Chubb, it was him or no one. And we went no one, relying on the in house talent we have at present. But passing on OBO and the like, was surprising. The only thing that seems logical is that with Landry( that may have been medical), and later OBO and like picks, JL didn't think we were improving on talent we currently had on the squad. Or another way of looking at that may be that JL and kYle don't KNOW what is on the squad, and rather than pick a similar talent, they passed. Still and all, to get an IR pick ....i don't get that. That is betting on the come like Baalke managed to do yrly, and it bit us in the azz. I would hope that is the first and last picks we see like that.

One of the big UGLIES we had when JL and kyle signed on , was an IR that averaged what ...22 or 24 guys per season? Cripes it was awful. And they went about getting rid of that. Only to go and sign one themselves. Well, they have proved to be a lot smarter than i am...but that signing was , well...ponderous.

I am gonna go out on a limb here, but I think KYLE would have loved Wade Phillips or another high quality SB winning DC.
Obviously going to the SB limited his choices

Agree, I think that was a big problem right there. I think he's addressed that a little bit by hiring Chris Kiffen. I'm still pulling for Saleh, I think he's just not aggressive enough, or his schemes are still more read and react than a true Seifert/Carroll 4-3 under. I still think he can get the job done as DC. I was impressed with his acquisition of Day and Cassius in the latter half of the season, but I am still very disappointed they chose Kentavius instead of risking a pick on a possible LEO.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Coordinators don't draft players. There's no discussion to be had here.

Oh, and Kyle had no say on offense in Atlanta?

Input and final call are the not the same.

All coaches--even the positional--provide input. Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch make the final call.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Input and final call are the not the same.

All coaches--even the positional--provide input. Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch make the final call.

My simple point is that Saleh just didn't *input* strongly enough on the LEO side unfortunately. Don't get me wrong though, ShanaLynch is in the mix for my disappointment too. Edge rusher is the second most important position on a football team, and for the front office to *not* at least draft the *best* potential LEO in a weak LEO draft is still a failure as far as I'm concerned from a talent acquisition standpoint. We all know about the All ACL team under Baalke, and the results it had. I'm just ticked off they went ahead and did that again.

Originally posted by Giedi:

I think a DC's job is based more on finding defensive talent than scheming talent. Both Tomsula and Fangio were able to find undrafted and low round players and turn them into starter and higher level players. We didn't even get a free agent undrafted LEO after the draft. It may be that Saleh's already plateaued - I'm hoping not, but we shall see.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

I am gonna go out on a limb here, but I think KYLE would have loved Wade Phillips or another high quality SB winning DC.

Vic Fangio was available this off-season. Kyle passed.

It's safe to say Kyle believes in Saleh. Unless the defense takes a step backward, Saleh is going nowhere.

So only Vic, and since he didn't take Vic he didn't want anybody?

Sorry but your wrong.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ninernoise.com/2017/01/21/49ers-lose-gus-bradley-defensive-coordinator-hired-chargers/amp/


Again, I believe that Kyle would have taken Wade if he had the chance.

Yes I understand Saleh isn't going anywhere. Wouldn't make sense to break up continuity.
I'd have liked an experienced DC.
Glad your happy with what we have.
👍

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

So only Vic, and since he didn't take Vic he didn't want anybody?

Sorry but your wrong.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ninernoise.com/2017/01/21/49ers-lose-gus-bradley-defensive-coordinator-hired-chargers/amp/


Again, I believe that Kyle would have taken Wade if he had the chance.

Yes I understand Saleh isn't going anywhere. Wouldn't make sense to break up continuity.
I'd have liked an experienced DC.
Glad your happy with what we have.
👍

With how attached he is to the scheme, on offense and defense there is no reason to believe that Phillips who is equally wedded to his 3-4 scheme was ever an option. They pursued Bradley as defensive coordinator and when that fell through they went after one of his understudies.

Kyle has consistently and strongly stated his support for Saleh and the current defensive scheme and given his reasoning for both so its pretty clear that neither are going anywhere, anytime soon.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

So only Vic, and since he didn't take Vic he didn't want anybody?

Sorry but your wrong.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ninernoise.com/2017/01/21/49ers-lose-gus-bradley-defensive-coordinator-hired-chargers/amp/


Again, I believe that Kyle would have taken Wade if he had the chance.

Yes I understand Saleh isn't going anywhere. Wouldn't make sense to break up continuity.
I'd have liked an experienced DC.
Glad your happy with what we have.
👍

With how attached he is to the scheme, on offense and defense there is no reason to believe that Phillips who is equally wedded to his 3-4 scheme was ever an option. They pursued Bradley as defensive coordinator and when that fell through they went after one of his understudies.

Kyle has consistently and strongly stated his support for Saleh and the current defensive scheme and given his reasoning for both so its pretty clear that neither are going anywhere, anytime soon.

Ya ok, didn't I just say that?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Giedi:

I think a DC's job is based more on finding defensive talent than scheming talent. Both Tomsula and Fangio were able to find undrafted and low round players and turn them into starter and higher level players. We didn't even get a free agent undrafted LEO after the draft. It may be that Saleh's already plateaued - I'm hoping not, but we shall see.

The secret to the Tampa 2 system? There really isn't one.
Less is more in this case. The brilliance of the scheme lies in its simplicity. What the Tampa 2 teams have figured out is that it isn't what they're doing, as much as it is who is doing it and how.
[…]
"There's no magic formula," Dungy said. "We don't do a whole lot, other than play hard and play well. Whether it's Pittsburgh or Tampa or Chicago or here, we're going to be fundamentally sound and try not to give up big plays and play hard and play smart. It's that more so than the X's and O's."
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2271514

Tony Dungy was hired in the mid 1980s as a defensive assistant under Noll in Pittsburgh. From 1984-1988, Tony Dungy was Chuck Noll's defensive coordinator, tweaking the Cover Two zone the Steelers used to try and fit a changing league.
http://americanfootball.wikia.com/wiki/Tony_Dungy

"It's amazing how, of the defenses I've been in, this by far is the simplest, and it has been the most effective. I think sometimes coaches can make things too complicated. It's not rocket science. It's football."
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/515036678/Dungys-defense-is-a-real-hit.html

There is nothing fancy about the Seattle defense. It has relative simple schemes with a simple philosophy. In the words of defensive coordinator Dan Quinn: "Let's get our cleats in the grass and go attack people."
[…]
Ham and Wagner [former steel curtain players] said they see similarities to their defense with the Seahawks. They mentioned a fierce pass rush; smart, quick linebackers who make plays all over the field; and an aggressive secondary led by a shutdown cornerback, Blount for the Steelers and Richard Sherman for Seattle. The Seahawks secondary is so good and so tough that it has its own nickname — Legion of Boom. That's pretty cool.

"Their defense is probably the closest I've seen to us in a long time in design and performance," Wagner said. "I like what they do. They're fun to watch.
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2015/01/29/Ron-Cook-Steel-Curtain-vs-Seattle-s-defense/stories/201501290216

.

Originally posted by Giedi:
My simple point is that Saleh just didn't *input* strongly enough on the LEO side unfortunately. Don't get me wrong though, ShanaLynch is in the mix for my disappointment too. Edge rusher is the second most important position on a football team, and for the front office to *not* at least draft the *best* potential LEO in a weak LEO draft is still a failure as far as I'm concerned from a talent acquisition standpoint. We all know about the All ACL team under Baalke, and the results it had. I'm just ticked off they went ahead and did that again.

It's certainly among the most important, but this statement if probably a stretch. Obviously QB is #1 by miles. Not coincidentally, OT is often regarded as #2. On the defensive side, analytics are suggesting that pass coverage is actually more impactful than pass rush, though, granted, there are a lot of variable at play there.

That said, I too wish we'd drafted an Edge Rusher. But I am getting curious to see what the team can do with a Thomas/Mitchell/Buck/AA base-down front four.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:
Ya ok, didn't I just say that?

You said this.

"Again, I believe that Kyle would have taken Wade if he had the chance."

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that this was never the case just looking at what Kyle has had said since he joined the 49ers.