John Lynch - 49ers GM

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

What do you think they're doing differently than other teams that leads to injuries? You can say look at all these guys and how many injures we've had until you're blue in the face…doesn't mean anything if you can't point out what it is that they're doing differently then any other team.

What haven't they invested into? There hasn't been one fact leading to that hypothesis.

Guys like Jackson and Collins have had massive weight fluctuations throughout their careers…do you think that could play a part in their injuries and like others have said they get in football shape by playing football.

imo it's a multi layered issue, but fans don't like that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

What do you think they're doing differently than other teams that leads to injuries? You can say look at all these guys and how many injures we've had until you're blue in the face…doesn't mean anything if you can't point out what it is that they're doing differently then any other team.

What haven't they invested into? There hasn't been one fact leading to that hypothesis.

Guys like Jackson and Collins have had massive weight fluctuations throughout their careers…do you think that could play a part in their injuries and like others have said they get in football shape by playing football.

imo it's a multi layered issue, but fans don't like that.

the reality is nfl football is a contact sport, and we play very physical both sides of the ball, but ppl enjoy the tin foil hat..

btw, did we watch last night. we saw a QB1 exit after 2 passes on 5th snap, i saw aj brown exit, I'm sure both those fan bases are saying they are uniquely cursed when in reality this is football, it's how it has always been and how it will always be, unless the game goes to flag or 2 hand touch

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

Perhaps you could explain your last line, because without an explanation it looks like absolute garbage. How have the team ground up players?

What else can you call it? The proof is in the results. Just look at our recent draft history and specifically our recent d-line picks. Many of them had no significant injury history before we drafted them and yet almost all of them have struggled to stay healthy once they got here. Both of the d-linemen that we've taken in the 2nd round recently have torn their patellar tendons (most likely ending Drake Jackson's chance at a career). The entire league only averages 4 patellar tendon tears a year.

How long does this have to keep happening for it to not just be bad luck? We're doing something wrong systematically. I'm sure lots of people have other hypotheses on why it's happening, but it doesn't appear that the team has invested enough resources in figuring it out for whatever reason.

You have no idea and making up s**t.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

Perhaps you could explain your last line, because without an explanation it looks like absolute garbage. How have the team ground up players?

What else can you call it? The proof is in the results. Just look at our recent draft history and specifically our recent d-line picks. Many of them had no significant injury history before we drafted them and yet almost all of them have struggled to stay healthy once they got here. Both of the d-linemen that we've taken in the 2nd round recently have torn their patellar tendons (most likely ending Drake Jackson's chance at a career). The entire league only averages 4 patellar tendon tears a year.

How long does this have to keep happening for it to not just be bad luck? We're doing something wrong systematically. I'm sure lots of people have other hypotheses on why it's happening, but it doesn't appear that the team has invested enough resources in figuring it out for whatever reason.

You have no idea and making up s**t.

What am I making up? You keep saying that, but what am I making up? Here are the irrefutable facts: we've been the most injured team since 2014, and we've been one of the most injured teams every year of Kyle's tenure here except one (2023). If that doesn't concern or bother you, then maybe you're not as big of a fan of this team as you think you are.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

What do you think they're doing differently than other teams that leads to injuries? You can say look at all these guys and how many injures we've had until you're blue in the face…doesn't mean anything if you can't point out what it is that they're doing differently then any other team.

What haven't they invested into? There hasn't been one fact leading to that hypothesis.

Guys like Jackson and Collins have had massive weight fluctuations throughout their careers…do you think that could play a part in their injuries and like others have said they get in football shape by playing football.

imo it's a multi layered issue, but fans don't like that.

I don't know what we're doing differently, but it shouldn't be the fans responsibility to figure it out. Just attributing it all to bad luck when it's been happening for more than a decade is letting the team off the hook. I'm sure the problem is complex, but they're the only ones with the resources and access required to figure it out. We know they haven't invested enough into resolving the problem, because the problem still persists and we've seen zero improvements.

We haven't even changed our head S&C coach since 2019. In such a results based business, what other coach could have such poor results for so many years and keep their job?

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
What am I making up? You keep saying that, but what am I making up? Here are the irrefutable facts: we've been the most injured team since 2014, and we've been one of the most injured teams every year of Kyle's tenure here except one (2023). If that doesn't concern or bother you, then maybe you're not as big of a fan of this team as you think you are.

those aren't facts, it's very subjective what counts as injury or not, for example if your backup QB3 like Rourke is out does that count as an injury? should it count? i just googled most injured team since 2014 and it said this: 1. Total Games Lost (The Giants)

looks like giants are most injured, even using your cherry picked 'since 2014'

or look at darnold last night, he started the game so do you count that as an injury or not? he didn't miss the game technically, yet he played 5 snaps...

so it looks very manufactured and fans who want to grasp for straws will cling to any "report" that shows their team is 'most injured', every team deals with injury every season that's nfl football, most injured is an opinion you have to create some criteria to be objective and 2 ppl can look at it objectively and count different stuff and come up with totally different results, that means this ain't factual in the least..

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
It doesn't matter who they draft if they can't keep these guys healthy. Alfred Collins could have been a slam-dunk perennial all-pro caliber player and it wouldn't matter if his patellar tendon is torn. Looking at the last several DL we've drafted, I feel sorry for them. This franchise has systematically ground them up and given them no shot at developing.

What do you think they're doing differently than other teams that leads to injuries? You can say look at all these guys and how many injures we've had until you're blue in the face…doesn't mean anything if you can't point out what it is that they're doing differently then any other team.

What haven't they invested into? There hasn't been one fact leading to that hypothesis.

Guys like Jackson and Collins have had massive weight fluctuations throughout their careers…do you think that could play a part in their injuries and like others have said they get in football shape by playing football.

imo it's a multi layered issue, but fans don't like that.

the reality is nfl football is a contact sport, and we play very physical both sides of the ball, but ppl enjoy the tin foil hat..

btw, did we watch last night. we saw a QB1 exit after 2 passes on 5th snap, i saw aj brown exit, I'm sure both those fan bases are saying they are uniquely cursed when in reality this is football, it's how it has always been and how it will always be, unless the game goes to flag or 2 hand touch

It's frustrating and I get fans being upset about it….and yes we watched multiple players get hurt just last night.

You have other teams that have had a massive amount of injuries the past 5 seasons like NYG, Panthers, Texans, Bucs etc….what's their problem?

like I said it's a multilayered issue. One dudes injury isn't based off the same thing for another guy's injury. We have massive humans smashing into each other and falling on each other…Our ligaments aren't meant to handle the stuff they do daily at their size/speed.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I don't know what we're doing differently, but it shouldn't be the fans responsibility to figure it out. Just attributing it all to bad luck when it's been happening for more than a decade is letting the team off the hook. I'm sure the problem is complex, but they're the only ones with the resources and access required to figure it out. We know they haven't invested enough into resolving the problem, because the problem still persists and we've seen zero improvements.

We haven't even changed our head S&C coach since 2019. In such a results based business, what other coach could have such poor results for so many years and keep their job?

You act like we're the only team that deals with injuries…and that's simply not the truth.

you're forming some sort of hypothesis based off emotions.

invest in what? How about the players invest in their own health in recovery on top of what SF provides? Why is Derrick Henry who plays a position you usually fall off a cliff at 30 still killing it? Why is he never getting hurt when RBs around the league do every week? The guy takes care of his body, it's his investment to continue to play/make money.

these players need to be better on their own as well….Collins shows up out of shape and fat what does he think is gonna happen? I'll bet money he showed up at like 350lbs. Shocking his ligament didn't hold up

you can invest in every ice bath, PT, cryo freeze chamber, red light bed…s**t isn't gonna matter if the player doesn't hold himself accountable to be ready for f**king go.

There's no electrical substation at MetLife, yet those f**kers are hurt more than anyone.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-yZQHx7IIdM&pp=ygUgR2VvcmdlIGtpdHRsZSBzZWxsaW5nIG1pa2UgZXZhbnM%3D

Sure sounds like a team that takes care of its players. But it doesn't fit Rings Yorks are cheap narrative.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I don't know what we're doing differently, but it shouldn't be the fans responsibility to figure it out. Just attributing it all to bad luck when it's been happening for more than a decade is letting the team off the hook. I'm sure the problem is complex, but they're the only ones with the resources and access required to figure it out. We know they haven't invested enough into resolving the problem, because the problem still persists and we've seen zero improvements.

We haven't even changed our head S&C coach since 2019. In such a results based business, what other coach could have such poor results for so many years and keep their job?

You act like we're the only team that deals with injuries…and that's simply not the truth.

you're forming some sort of hypothesis based off emotions.

invest in what? How about the players invest in their own health in recovery on top of what SF provides? Why is Derrick Henry who plays a position you usually fall off a cliff at 30 still killing it? Why is he never getting hurt when RBs around the league do every week? The guy takes care of his body, it's his investment to continue to play/make money.

these players need to be better on their own as well….Collins shows up out of shape and fat what does he think is gonna happen? I'll bet money he showed up at like 350lbs. Shocking his ligament didn't hold up

you can invest in every ice bath, PT, cryo freeze chamber, red light bed…s**t isn't gonna matter if the player doesn't hold himself accountable to be ready for f**king go.

There's no electrical substation at MetLife, yet those f**kers are hurt more than anyone.

I mean, going off of AGL (Adjusted Games Lost), we've had roughly 35% more games lost by starters than the league average over the last 12 years, almost 100 more games than the 2nd place team, and close to double the amount of games as the Rams. That seems pretty significant.

Article detailing AGL from 2021:
https://www.ninersnation.com/2021/6/9/22525254/49ers-terrible-injury-luck-continues-2020-nfl-offseason

AGL from 2012-2021 (#2 behind Washington during that time and we've since surpassed them):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1daD7BaSXtAtbk-wdUNunK_JRHcw7WCU_DaFKyi9OsRs/edit?usp=drivesdk

AGL from 2022 & 2023 (our only healthy year):

https://ftnfantasy.com/nfl/texans-lead-2023-agl-numbers-with-ol-injury-record

AGL from 2024 (disaster):

https://ftnfantasy.com/nfl/2024-agl-49ers-get-smacked-down-by-injuries

AGL from 2025 (top 5 again):

https://ftnfantasy.com/nfl/adjusted-games-lost-2025-no-team-suffered-like-the-cardinals

Is AGL the only way to measure injuries? No, obviously not, but it's a well thought out measurement and as good as any. It's unlikely we're not near the top using any method. Pretending that every team has the same level of injuries or that this problem hasn't been around for over a decade just doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd be really curious how most teams draft process works, between the scouts/coaches/front office etc. With us, it seems to me like the coaches have a huge say in who gets drafted.

For example, Our LB coach with Dugger. I wonder if the process was that a scout loved dugger and some other guys, then showed the position coach, then they lobbied for them with the front office. or is it just the coaches look over players and find the ones they "love" and they push that, then the front office takes that into account and the scout report?

Idk, but i've said it for years - it's odd we typically draft really well in the late rounds but poorly in the first 3 rounds (Super hit or miss with players). that is statistically wild over a 10 year period. I'd love to know what they do different with their process from the first few rounds to the second part. If they do anything different at all, idk.

I get that most draft picks across the league will suck or not make it, every team misses on most of their picks, but I find the niners turnouts to be so odd.

Yeah it would be interesting to see how it all goes down on another team…this is just a total guess but we seem to throw BPA in the trash the first 3 rds. Heavily geared towards need and positional value. Like they would draft the 9th ranked DE over the 3rd ranked IOL. I think as you go into day 3 of the draft we're not seeing as much reaching and it's more BPA…shocking the results equal more hits, even if most of those hits aren't at premium positions most times.

BPA is different for every team, though. No team is using media created BPA lists. So there's zero way to know whether they disregard BPA or not, because nobody but they know who they consider BPA.

Right, but I agree with NY that we seem to take a worse ranked position of need over BPA in the first couple rounds. I get that the reality of the draft is you can't always do BPA cause of needs etc, but it's usually best practice.

who knows, hopefully stuff gets better. our last few drafts have had some good players who've contributed. If we can get 2-3 quality players a draft, that's a solid draft. you hope you get better but the reality is that most selections amount to literally nothing, for every team.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
I don't know what we're doing differently, but it shouldn't be the fans responsibility to figure it out. Just attributing it all to bad luck when it's been happening for more than a decade is letting the team off the hook. I'm sure the problem is complex, but they're the only ones with the resources and access required to figure it out. We know they haven't invested enough into resolving the problem, because the problem still persists and we've seen zero improvements.

We haven't even changed our head S&C coach since 2019. In such a results based business, what other coach could have such poor results for so many years and keep their job?

You act like we're the only team that deals with injuries…and that's simply not the truth.

you're forming some sort of hypothesis based off emotions.

invest in what? How about the players invest in their own health in recovery on top of what SF provides? Why is Derrick Henry who plays a position you usually fall off a cliff at 30 still killing it? Why is he never getting hurt when RBs around the league do every week? The guy takes care of his body, it's his investment to continue to play/make money.

these players need to be better on their own as well….Collins shows up out of shape and fat what does he think is gonna happen? I'll bet money he showed up at like 350lbs. Shocking his ligament didn't hold up

you can invest in every ice bath, PT, cryo freeze chamber, red light bed…s**t isn't gonna matter if the player doesn't hold himself accountable to be ready for f**king go.

There's no electrical substation at MetLife, yet those f**kers are hurt more than anyone.

I mean, going off of AGL (Adjusted Games Lost), we've had roughly 35% more games lost by starters than the league average over the last 12 years, almost 100 more games than the 2nd place team, and close to double the amount of games as the Rams. That seems pretty significant.

Article detailing AGL from 2021:
https://www.ninersnation.com/2021/6/9/22525254/49ers-terrible-injury-luck-continues-2020-nfl-offseason

AGL from 2012-2021 (#2 behind Washington during that time and we've since surpassed them):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1daD7BaSXtAtbk-wdUNunK_JRHcw7WCU_DaFKyi9OsRs/edit?usp=drivesdk

AGL from 2022 & 2023 (our only healthy year):

https://ftnfantasy.com/nfl/texans-lead-2023-agl-numbers-with-ol-injury-record

AGL from 2024 (disaster):

https://ftnfantasy.com/nfl/2024-agl-49ers-get-smacked-down-by-injuries

AGL from 2025 (top 5 again):

https://ftnfantasy.com/nfl/adjusted-games-lost-2025-no-team-suffered-like-the-cardinals

Is AGL the only way to measure injuries? No, obviously not, but it's a well thought out measurement and as good as any. It's unlikely we're not near the top using any method. Pretending that every team has the same level of injuries or that this problem hasn't been around for over a decade just doesn't make sense to me.

This article shows that SF isn't even in the top 5

https://www.ingame.com/most-injured-nfl-teams-and-players/

Again I don't disagree that we've dealt with a ton injuries, man I live in NY and listen to every Giant fan complain about how injury prone they are…same s**t different team/fan base.

it isn't a hey we don't have enough cryo chambers compared to the Rams….theres multiple layers to every single injury, there is no smoking gun to all of it.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Right, but I agree with NY that we seem to take a worse ranked position of need over BPA in the first couple rounds. I get that the reality of the draft is you can't always do BPA cause of needs etc, but it's usually best practice.

who knows, hopefully stuff gets better. our last few drafts have had some good players who've contributed. If we can get 2-3 quality players a draft, that's a solid draft. you hope you get better but the reality is that most selections amount to literally nothing, for every team.

Also we can pretend that every team's "big board" is massively different…but overall it's not. The guys that we all project going high, usually goes high.

SF is consistently going against the grain and reaching more than anyone else…the results overall for those picks have been pretty bad. Read the damn room. You want Nick Martin? well move down a f**k ton or understand he's more than likely gonna be there a rd or 2 later. They did that with Kittle…. Theres no way you have Martin graded that high and need him that bad, that you have to take him over Xavier Watts or Jared Wilson. If that's the case then they're just bad at evaluating talent…which might just be the case.

At least with the Strib pick they knew they could move down multiple times before drafting him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Also we can pretend that every team's "big board" is massively different…but overall it's not. The guys that we all project going high, usually goes high.

SF is consistently going against the grain and reaching more than anyone else…the results overall for those picks have been pretty bad. Read the damn room. You want Nick Martin? well move down a f**k ton or understand he's more than likely gonna be there a rd or 2 later. They did that with Kittle…. Theres no way you have Martin graded that high and need him that bad, that you have to take him over Xavier Watts or Jared Wilson. If that's the case then they're just bad at evaluating talent…which might just be the case.

At least with the Strib pick they knew they could move down multiple times before drafting him.

Literally a script that would just pick the BPA from any consensus board, would do better drafting in early rounds than what this regime has done.

The most frustrating thing to me is that they don't really learn, and also that every time they need to replace/upgrade a position and they hand-pick a "replacement" player, they strike out so bad its crazy. Im talking not like a player who is merely middle of the pack starter, I mean like unstartable, extremely mediocre or out of the league player type of stuff.

Kinlaw was an heir to Buckner. Borderline starter and may have some material on Adam Peters.
Trey Lance was supposed to be an upgrade from Jimmy. Guy you paid kings ransom for. Not an NFL starter.
Jayir Brown was hand picked as a FS of the future. Barely an NFL starter due to other bad safeties on the roster
Drake Jackson was supposed to be the bend/speed rusher of the future. Done.
Latu was supposed to be the backup receiving TE. Out of the league in two years.

all of these were specific drafts at specific spots to address the needs/replace existing players. all have failed spectacularly. What's the last time they drafted for need and they got a guy and he was just good right away? Stribling might be one right now, hopefully. But it's like damn, bro.

and when we view the best hits, most of these are back of the draft, drafted not with expectations of replacing guys and groomed, but more of a "has upside, we'll let him sink or swim" approach.
Purdy wasnt selected in the 7th to be a starting QB
Kittle wasnt thought of a franchise level TE in the 5th, they wanted his blocking and saw upside in athleticism
Even Warner was more of a LB/S project they wanted to undertake, not some envisioned rock in the center of their defense. That rock was supposed to be Reuben Foster earlier when they got him in the 1st

That's the whole BPA/trait approach that worked for them. Its so weird that they don't do it for early rounds when it produces success at later rounds. Once again, they seem to value system over players and their evaluations of early rounds to address needs has not been good at all. But I dont think theyre aware of this either, because if they were they shouldve gone all-in like Rams, said eff them picks and mortgage future for immediate success.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Right, but I agree with NY that we seem to take a worse ranked position of need over BPA in the first couple rounds. I get that the reality of the draft is you can't always do BPA cause of needs etc, but it's usually best practice.

who knows, hopefully stuff gets better. our last few drafts have had some good players who've contributed. If we can get 2-3 quality players a draft, that's a solid draft. you hope you get better but the reality is that most selections amount to literally nothing, for every team.

Also we can pretend that every team's "big board" is massively different…but overall it's not. The guys that we all project going high, usually goes high.

SF is consistently going against the grain and reaching more than anyone else…the results overall for those picks have been pretty bad. Read the damn room. You want Nick Martin? well move down a f**k ton or understand he's more than likely gonna be there a rd or 2 later. They did that with Kittle…. Theres no way you have Martin graded that high and need him that bad, that you have to take him over Xavier Watts or Jared Wilson. If that's the case then they're just bad at evaluating talent…which might just be the case.

At least with the Strib pick they knew they could move down multiple times before drafting him.

I think coaches should coach and scouts should scout. it's two different skill sets and I think (with good intention) we try to overlap them and make the most of it - but i think it hurts us a lot. let the scouts do their job and let the coaches coach them up.