Installing Kelly's offense

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
The big drawback to all this is that there is player testimony that in the later stages of a game, defenses are able to key onto formations and know what play they are about to see.

This NOW this an interesting point and it makes a ton of sense. Hopefully, in order for the defender to see and recognize what's coming by late in the game, it's b/c the offense has had so much success with it it's a moot point (i.e the game's already over). Or "mute" point if you aren't hearing that.

I believe that defensive player who said that, was on the losing end of that game

Originally posted by thl408:
When Chip was being rumored to the 49ers, my biggest concern was that NFL defenses don't fall for simple playbooks, run at a fast pace. So much film study before and during the game allows defenses to key what Chip's offense is doing. I talked myself out of this concern because Chip is an innovator and is always looking for ways to stay a leg up. If he comes into SF doing exactly what he did in PHI, the offense isn't going to yield good results imo. Maybe against bad defenses they will have success, but not against good ones. In the PHI at SF game in 2014, Bethea was on record saying he knew what plays were coming.

Scary to think about. I hope him going out and diversifying his coaching staff to gather a long list of specialist coaches plus several offense game plan minds to sound board off, is a sign of him evolving, like you said. But these are very valid concerns. I had mine as well.

nice to see the guys stressing the importance of being in good shape for this change on both sides of the ball. and unlike players we have had in years past like boone.. no one is b***hing about it. they are talking about it in a good way. to bad some posters can not take a que from the players who are actually on the front lines

Originally posted by mojave45:
Interesting what Torrey Smith had to say about the uptempo. He said (paraphrasing) that because they no longer have to jog back and forth to the huddle, receiving the play right on the line, that they get a chance to catch their breath that way. Little issues that the players are noticing, and liking about this offense.

Yup. There's a difference between no huddle and hurry up. Chip doesn't always go hurry up, but he almost always goes no huddle. They just lineup quickly (no huddle), but stand there, in formation, receiving the playcall from the sidelines.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by BillWalshField:

Celek said the big concern though. It's a simpler offense. Much easier for defenses to figure out.

That is where the precision part comes in. Execute with precision and you'll be fine, otherwise better defenses will eat your lunch.

Its like the Colts of the 00's, what they ran on offense was fairly simple but with Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne...etc....they executed at such at a high level that their offense was still extremely difficult to stop.

Did you know that Peyton and Wayne would stay after practice every day and run 60 pass routes to make sure their timing was exact. That's what dedication sounds like.

TEMPO.... TEMPO.....TEMPO

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by BillWalshField:

Celek said the big concern though. It's a simpler offense. Much easier for defenses to figure out.

That is where the precision part comes in. Execute with precision and you'll be fine, otherwise better defenses will eat your lunch.

Its like the Colts of the 00's, what they ran on offense was fairly simple but with Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne...etc....they executed at such at a high level that their offense was still extremely difficult to stop.

Did you know that Peyton and Wayne would stay after practice every day and run 60 pass routes to make sure their timing was exact. That's what dedication sounds like.

Kaepernick and Crabtree used to do the same. They'd practice 65 corner EZ fade routes daily after practice.

Bwahahaha

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
The big drawback to all this is that there is player testimony that in the later stages of a game, defenses are able to key onto formations and know what play they are about to see.

This NOW this an interesting point and it makes a ton of sense. Hopefully, in order for the defender to see and recognize what's coming by late in the game, it's b/c the offense has had so much success with it it's a moot point (i.e the game's already over). Or "mute" point if you aren't hearing that.

I believe that defensive player who said that, was on the losing end of that game

That would be pretty arrogant of the player to lose the game, then say the offense they just played against was predictable.

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/12/22/10636432/chip-kelly-offense-eagles-cardinals-patrick-peterson-quote-defense
"Chip Kelly's offense is too predictable" is a sentiment that's popped up a number of times following losses during his Eagles tenure. It happened after the Eagles-49ers game in 2014. It also happened earlier this season when Josh Huff said the Cowboys called out the Eagles' plays before the ball was snapped. Following Philadelphia's 40-17 loss to the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday night, Patrick Peterson echoed the same refrain.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Mike Davis said he loves this offense too.

As Niners816 noted above, the OFFENSE isn't simple

But it is simple. That has never been in debate. The essence of the offense is that all your guys are on the same page, executing well and the increased tempo leads to mistakes on the part of the defense which your players then take advantage of for big gains.

Playcalling wise it is pretty vanilla so execution and precision become eben more vital.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
The big drawback to all this is that there is player testimony that in the later stages of a game, defenses are able to key onto formations and know what play they are about to see.

This NOW this an interesting point and it makes a ton of sense. Hopefully, in order for the defender to see and recognize what's coming by late in the game, it's b/c the offense has had so much success with it it's a moot point (i.e the game's already over). Or "mute" point if you aren't hearing that.

I believe that defensive player who said that, was on the losing end of that game

That would be pretty arrogant of the player to lose the game, then say the offense they just played against was predictable.

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/12/22/10636432/chip-kelly-offense-eagles-cardinals-patrick-peterson-quote-defense
"Chip Kelly's offense is too predictable" is a sentiment that's popped up a number of times following losses during his Eagles tenure. It happened after the Eagles-49ers game in 2014. It also happened earlier this season when Josh Huff said the Cowboys called out the Eagles' plays before the ball was snapped. Following Philadelphia's 40-17 loss to the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday night, Patrick Peterson echoed the same refrain.

He's probably too arrogant to change it.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
The big drawback to all this is that there is player testimony that in the later stages of a game, defenses are able to key onto formations and know what play they are about to see.

This NOW this an interesting point and it makes a ton of sense. Hopefully, in order for the defender to see and recognize what's coming by late in the game, it's b/c the offense has had so much success with it it's a moot point (i.e the game's already over). Or "mute" point if you aren't hearing that.

I believe that defensive player who said that, was on the losing end of that game

That would be pretty arrogant of the player to lose the game, then say the offense they just played against was predictable.

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2015/12/22/10636432/chip-kelly-offense-eagles-cardinals-patrick-peterson-quote-defense
"Chip Kelly's offense is too predictable" is a sentiment that's popped up a number of times following losses during his Eagles tenure. It happened after the Eagles-49ers game in 2014. It also happened earlier this season when Josh Huff said the Cowboys called out the Eagles' plays before the ball was snapped. Following Philadelphia's 40-17 loss to the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday night, Patrick Peterson echoed the same refrain.

I didn't see this one, but i did see one where a DB had a INT but the result was a loss

this play will win us Championships I feel it!

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Mike Davis said he loves this offense too.

As Niners816 noted above, the OFFENSE isn't simple

But it is simple. That has never been in debate. The essence of the offense is that all your guys are on the same page, executing well and the increased tempo leads to mistakes on the part of the defense which your players then take advantage of for big gains.

Playcalling wise it is pretty vanilla so execution and precision become eben more vital.

The article linked in the OP had Celek saying the offense was simple. It shows up on film from PHI. It's not a volume playbook from what I can see. At least not what they install on a week to week basis. I see the same play ran 3-5 times within a game. The play designs itself is fine. It's not 'simple' in its design. It's simple regarding volume. Meaning they run the same plays numerous times per game.
"This offense, I think personally, is easy to learn, once you get it down," tight end Garrett Celek said. "There's a reason we can go so fast. It's a simple offense. Once it clicks, we can just go, go, go."

Originally posted by jerseyniner49:

this play will win us Championships I feel it!

but jed aint gonna pay for all that printer toner and poster board.

Originally posted by thl408:
The article linked in the OP had Celek saying the offense was simple. It shows up on film from PHI. It's not a volume playbook from what I can see. At least not what they install on a week to week basis. I see the same play ran 3-5 times within a game. The play designs itself is fine. It's not 'simple' in its design. It's simple regarding volume. Meaning they run the same plays numerous times per game.
"This offense, I think personally, is easy to learn, once you get it down," tight end Garrett Celek said. "There's a reason we can go so fast. It's a simple offense. Once it clicks, we can just go, go, go."

And there is nothing wrong with doing that, I've posted the same quote from Tom Moore countless times on here but after being asked why the offense at Indy was so effective in spite of teams being keyed in on what was coming most of the time, his response was "If we are both trying to get to the airport, and you know exactly where the airport is, and I think I know where the airport is, which one of us gets there first?"


The offense has the advantage in knowing the playcall and where the ball is supposed to go, the defense may THINK they know where the ball is going but if the offense executes at a high level with precision, they should win the majority of the time.


There's nothing wrong with having a pared down playbook. Sometimes if you have too many plays and your scheme is too complex it becomes a major issue keeping all the players on the same page, guys knowing where to line up, blocking assignments being followed properly....etc. The issued with a pared down playbook is that your margin for error is lower. The offense has to be on the same page all the time because the defense likely has at least some idea of what is coming.

A receiver running the wrong route, a QB holding on to the football too long and not leading the receiver, these are especially fatal flaws. Everything needs to move with speed and precision for the offense to keep working. That is a lot more easily said and done when you have Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne, or Tom Brady and Wes Welker for example.