Niners hire Jim O'Neil as DC

Originally posted by Crown:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by PacTiger:
Do you think Jim O Neil is capable of a top 10-5 defense? His numbers in cleveland were awful against the pass and run.

I see a lot of similarities between what JoN does and what ARI does, and ARI has been top10 (yards allowed) in 2 of the past 3 seasons. So the scheme (base 3-4, multiple fronts, high pressure, man coverage) can work. The big questions are can JoN teach/call a good game, and do the 49ers have the horses to execute the scheme? I don't know enough about CLE to determine if the players aren't good enough, if they weren't taught well, or if JoN didn't perform on gameday. Too many unknowns on this 2016 49er defense for me to make a prediction I'd be confident in. An improvement from bottom of the league (2015) to top10 would be amazing.

Additionally can they be disciplined and not fall apart in the 4th qtr like last year.

And Home vs. Away. Can the young bucks play just as well away as they do at home? Start to put it all together on a more consistent basis?

Originally posted by mojave45:
What is interesting to me was how much better they played at home vs road games. If you can play well at home that means there is some talent to work with. When you have a huge fall off in certain situations consistently, like road games, or 4th quarter situations, that leads me to believe they weren't prepared well, or just poorly coached. 4th quarter breakdowns could be conditioning or the DC not making required adjustments too. Again, coaching?

LOL. Just saw this AFTER I posted. I guess I agree.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by mojave45:

What is interesting to me was how much better they played at home vs road games. If you can play well at home that means there is some talent to work with. When you have a huge fall off in certain situations consistently, like road games, or 4th quarter situations, that leads me to believe they weren't prepared well, or just poorly coached. 4th quarter breakdowns could be conditioning or the DC not making required adjustments too. Again, coaching?

LOL. Just saw this AFTER I posted. I guess I agree.

Lol,it is rare enough anyone agrees with me, I will take it!

I still don't get why playing better at home means something....unless it means the refs are more home friendly. If you win on the road, you should win at home and vice versa. The line most give about winning at home means.....blah, blah, ....just leaves me cold.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

I still don't get why playing better at home means something....unless it means the refs are more home friendly. If you win on the road, you should win at home and vice versa. The line most give about winning at home means.....blah, blah, ....just leaves me cold.

Haha. True. It's typically a sign of youth. That certainly qualified last year.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I still don't get why playing better at home means something....unless it means the refs are more home friendly. If you win on the road, you should win at home and vice versa. The line most give about winning at home means.....blah, blah, ....just leaves me cold.

I think a lot of us believe that if you can play statistically better games at home, that means the talent is actually there or you couldn't do it. Playing well, or at least better during home games is usually an indicator that your road game preparations weren't well thought out and executed. Everything from when you travel, where, when, and how much you practice on a road trip actually matter. The feeling , at least in my mind is that the Dumsula era didn't do those things well, as with so many other things they did poorly. The practice themselves weren't run well to begin with. So, I believe, as do some others, that if you have competent coaching, with actual planning about travel, timing, when and where to stay or fly home during a road trip stretch, what time, what intensity, and how long you practice, and what you actually practice...those things can be improved. That and better preparation over all, should equate to better performance. Theoretically Doc. Theoretically.

Yeah, Mojave, I have heard that. I also have read that at home players pay more attn....a more meaningful concern to me is....just how much better is JoN than mangini?
Note: I absolutely hated the mangini hire, starting from day one. The guy is a self aggrandizement example if ever there was one. And his "MY D is so complicated that it takes TWO yrs to learn"....that kind of crap is just what one would expect from that fool, and we are way better this yr, without him. Wish he had been fired long ago.

Question is JoN...I have not reviewed tape like Thl has been doing, so have no real feel for the guy. I just know inherently, we are way better off with mangini gone, along with tomsul. My guess all along has been that chip is going to be VERY involved with D, eg, making game plans , changing game plans at halftime, maybe even making D playcalls. Maybe he does that, maybe not. But chip is NOT going to let his very talented O get screwed over by a DC who can't call a decent game. So whether JoN is a good DC or not, I firmly believe chip will be watching over and taking over at DC if needed.

Hey, maybe JoN is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The point is tho, if not, chip will be very involved in the D...so I don' think JoN is a make or break coach for us. Our backup is our HC/OC. Coach Walsh? He could coach every position on the field and could game call O as well as D. Not saying that is chip, but am reminding that having a HC call the D is not unheard of ...Bellichek, Lovie Smith...both do, as well as others. I'd bet that Ron Rivera does also. So to me, JoN is not a big concern for us.

At the very least, we know he will have great backup in case he can't do it. I just don't see chip hiring a guy who can't cut it, tho.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Yeah, Mojave, I have heard that. I also have read that at home players pay more attn....a more meaningful concern to me is....just how much better is JoN than mangini?
Note: I absolutely hated the mangini hire, starting from day one. The guy is a self aggrandizement example if ever there was one. And his "MY D is so complicated that it takes TWO yrs to learn"....that kind of crap is just what one would expect from that fool, and we are way better this yr, without him. Wish he had been fired long ago.

Question is JoN...I have not reviewed tape like Thl has been doing, so have no real feel for the guy. I just know inherently, we are way better off with mangini gone, along with tomsul. My guess all along has been that chip is going to be VERY involved with D, eg, making game plans , changing game plans at halftime, maybe even making D playcalls. Maybe he does that, maybe not. But chip is NOT going to let his very talented O get screwed over by a DC who can't call a decent game. So whether JoN is a good DC or not, I firmly believe chip will be watching over and taking over at DC if needed.

Hey, maybe JoN is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The point is tho, if not, chip will be very involved in the D...so I don' think JoN is a make or break coach for us. Our backup is our HC/OC. Coach Walsh? He could coach every position on the field and could game call O as well as D. Not saying that is chip, but am reminding that having a HC call the D is not unheard of ...Bellichek, Lovie Smith...both do, as well as others. I'd bet that Ron Rivera does also. So to me, JoN is not a big concern for us.

At the very least, we know he will have great backup in case he can't do it. I just don't see chip hiring a guy who can't cut it, tho.

I think Chip is very aware of what did, and didn't work in Philly. A d that he studied carefully what did and didn't work well for the 49ers last year. So far I see a highly organized team that ran the OTA's. I see far fewer leaks coming out if the FO. Other than Lynch, I see fewer distractions in the off season. This all tied together with the interviews I see of either Kelly or his team seem more competent in general. So a more structured, competent approach gives me some hope that the competence Wil find its way onto the field. Preparation will be improved, so the product should improve.

Bellichek, lovie and Rivera are all HC's that come from a defensive background so it's not really surprising if they are more involved with the play calling/game planning when it comes to the D when need be.

Idk i think if chip has to get involved with defensive game planning or calling plays then every coach on that side of the ball has failed or is just defective enough to always be just a position coach rather than a coordinator.

I'm not sure if any of chips success can be attributed to his hands on coaching or defensive background, if there is any substantial background to lean upon

Originally posted by Allx9er:
Bellichek, lovie and Rivera are all HC's that come from a defensive background so it's not really surprising if they are more involved with the play calling/game planning when it comes to the D when need be.

Idk i think if chip has to get involved with defensive game planning or calling plays then every coach on that side of the ball has failed or is just defective enough to always be just a position coach rather than a coordinator.

I'm not sure if any of chips success can be attributed to his hands on coaching or defensive background, if there is any substantial background to lean upon

Depends on the way Kelly sets up his coaches and system. He is very knowledgable about defense so his input might be extremely valuable to the DC.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Allx9er:

Bellichek, lovie and Rivera are all HC's that come from a defensive background so it's not really surprising if they are more involved with the play calling/game planning when it comes to the D when need be.

Idk i think if chip has to get involved with defensive game planning or calling plays then every coach on that side of the ball has failed or is just defective enough to always be just a position coach rather than a coordinator.

I'm not sure if any of chips success can be attributed to his hands on coaching or defensive background, if there is any substantial background to lean upon

Depends on the way Kelly sets up his coaches and system. He is very knowledgable about defense so his input might be extremely valuable to the DC.

Remember Chip explaining how he runs things on the offensive side to come up with game day plans? He was questioned about how the OC fit in when he actually called the plays? I don't expect the defensive side of the ball to run drastically different than that. He will have input, and will sign off on the game day plan. So I don't expect Jon to run off snd start doing his own thing entirely. And as noted, if you listen to some of Chips interviews, he is VERY knowledgeable about defense.

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Allx9er:

Bellichek, lovie and Rivera are all HC's that come from a defensive background so it's not really surprising if they are more involved with the play calling/game planning when it comes to the D when need be.

Idk i think if chip has to get involved with defensive game planning or calling plays then every coach on that side of the ball has failed or is just defective enough to always be just a position coach rather than a coordinator.

I'm not sure if any of chips success can be attributed to his hands on coaching or defensive background, if there is any substantial background to lean upon

Depends on the way Kelly sets up his coaches and system. He is very knowledgable about defense so his input might be extremely valuable to the DC.

Remember Chip explaining how he runs things on the offensive side to come up with game day plans? He was questioned about how the OC fit in when he actually called the plays? I don't expect the defensive side of the ball to run drastically different than that. He will have input, and will sign off on the game day plan. So I don't expect Jon to run off snd start doing his own thing entirely. And as noted, if you listen to some of Chips interviews, he is VERY knowledgeable about defense.

All offensive minded coaches are going to also have a strong foundation in defense. Have to know about defense before trying to come up with ways to attack defenses. This is why in the Coverages and Concepts thread, I went through the coverages before listing the route combinations.

Chip did start off on the defensive side of the ball, then went on to become an "offensive minded" coach. I'm sure Chip will give his input towards the defensive game plan each week and not be completely hands off. He seems too involved for it to be any other way. I hope the dynamics between Chip and JoN is a good one.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Allx9er:
Bellichek, lovie and Rivera are all HC's that come from a defensive background so it's not really surprising if they are more involved with the play calling/game planning when it comes to the D when need be.

Idk i think if chip has to get involved with defensive game planning or calling plays then every coach on that side of the ball has failed or is just defective enough to always be just a position coach rather than a coordinator.

I'm not sure if any of chips success can be attributed to his hands on coaching or defensive background, if there is any substantial background to lean upon

Depends on the way Kelly sets up his coaches and system. He is very knowledgable about defense so his input might be extremely valuable to the DC.

Remember Chip explaining how he runs things on the offensive side to come up with game day plans? He was questioned about how the OC fit in when he actually called the plays? I don't expect the defensive side of the ball to run drastically different than that. He will have input, and will sign off on the game day plan. So I don't expect Jon to run off snd start doing his own thing entirely. And as noted, if you listen to some of Chips interviews, he is VERY knowledgeable about defense.

All offensive minded coaches are going to also have a strong foundation in defense. Have to know about defense before trying to come up with ways to attack defenses. This is why in the Coverages and Concepts thread, I went through the coverages before listing the route combinations.

Chip did start off on the defensive side of the ball, then went on to become an "offensive minded" coach. I'm sure Chip will give his input towards the defensive game plan each week and not be completely hands off. He seems too involved for it to be any other way. I hope the dynamics between Chip and JoN is a good one.

Originally posted by thl408:
All offensive minded coaches are going to also have a strong foundation in defense. Have to know about defense before trying to come up with ways to attack defenses. This is why in the Coverages and Concepts thread, I went through the coverages before listing the route combinations.

Chip did start off on the defensive side of the ball, then went on to become an "offensive minded" coach. I'm sure Chip will give his input towards the defensive game plan each week and not be completely hands off. He seems too involved for it to be any other way. I hope the dynamics between Chip and JoN is a good one.

Exactly! Walsh wrote his thesis at SJU about defense, and the idea that a great coach would be so channeled to one area is just not realistic. When you google coaches you can see just how diverse their experience is...even assistants.

Well, now that we have had a love in, a rare one at that, re: D coaching, the remaining issue is the D players. I guess the fact that only one is out 4 games is a whole lot better than 2 accused wife beaters, one for discharging a pistol in a public place, and another messing around with someone else's GF, we have had a pretty mild and laid back OAT camp.

In thinking back to the last 5 yrs, when there was total non structure here, we were at a our worst and same can be said for actions of players. When we were at our best, we had a relatively tranquil OAT camp. No secret that Chip is a no nonsense guy and if you want to play for him, pay attn, practice well, and learn like crazy. We are barely into his tenure here, but I like it already. Idle minds on a football team...are not a good thing. Same can be said for physical activity also. There is a quantum leap in professionalism from last yr to this....as would be expected.

A focused team is always better than one not so. Which makes last yr all that more awful. Glad it is in the rear view mirror.