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Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
With Coach Walsh, at 2-14 we were almost always in most of those game...ie, we had a shot at winning. Think back to this season and last half of 2014....when we lost, we weren't even close to being in it. This yr, against the NYG, we had a shot. But every other game we had no chance of winning. So let's not use BW as someone to compare to. It's like nite and day. We are now back to yr 2003, looking at picking half azzed guys as OC or HC, when what we really need is expert help in making this decision. Jed and family needs to be out of the picking coaches or GMs business. That isn't his forte. He needs to sign the checks. Meantime, get a VP of football ops (Phoenix's idea) who makes all the football decisions, and get football gurus to make the choice for this VP . (Use dungy, gruden, pioli, parcells, casserly, et al as your advisors for your VP of footbal ops) and then go from there.

This was true even in the worst seasons at the start. I don't think there were more than 2 or 3 games that were close to blowouts in all of '79 and '80.
all losses are bad losses but you guys are right,, when you are at a point where you are not even competitive ,,, well then you need to have a massacre and dump them all. if this keeps up NO ONE keeps their job

This is a dumpster fire of huge proportions...even Ronnie Lott, who was on Murph and Mac, this morning, he said it was such a disaster that he had no idea where to start with this mess. Someone with half a brain needs to be brought in to infuse new ideas in this mess or we will be looking at dog crap for a decade.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Being bad is one thing. Not being competitive is another. And based on that. after Hyde went down, our RB didn't deserve to be out there. Our QB didn't deserve to be out there. Our C, RG and RT definitely did not deserve to be out there. Our LBs in pass coverage didn't deserve to be out there. Our DBs didn't look like they deserved to be out there. Our DC definitely did not deserve to be out there. Neither did out OC. And our HC... again, didn't deserve to be out there. So JT made some changes. Hooray, but where were they 4 weerks ago ? I am fine with the way it finallyt worked out, but what took so much time? Just how badly did guys need to play to get yanked? And that is why JT is on the list. Good choice, but way too late. At least changes DID get made.

Ditto.However, add to the mix that the front office not only failed to provide players of starter quality (see C, RG, RT for example), but their backups were apparently perceived as so bad, that they failed/refused to sub them in when performances were so abysmal. AND, They continue to keep many of the underperformers in! Our issues extend well beyond player shortcomings, to the coaches, all the way to the top.
I think we have the Center, he just needs to get healthy.

Offense
RT: definitely need
RG: not hard to find so not worried
Center: we have the Center, he just needs to get healthy.
Defense:
ILB: Wilhoite = no
DL: we are simply young and will get better.

Other than that, we do not have a huge drop in talent compared to other teams.


Now for the big one and this will not change: Ownership =
Damn! Ronnie Lott! Everyone keeps talking about how we need a Football Man between the owner and the GM. Why didn't I think of him?

Now my mind is made up. Bring back Ronnie.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by Blindfury:
Originally posted by TheXFactor:
Baalke may not be the best with drafting offense. But he did get Hyde.

And hyde is running into a brick wall. Too bad Baalke didn't bother putting the right line in front of him.
you must have missed the memo,, its ok cuz we have a qb who can at least get rid of the ball quicker before the pass rush kills him. problem solved. my head hurts so bad
Originally posted by English:
Damn! Ronnie Lott! Everyone keeps talking about how we need a Football Man between the owner and the GM. Why didn't I think of him?

Now my mind is made up. Bring back Ronnie.

Paraage never gonna let that spot go.
Originally posted by English:
Damn! Ronnie Lott! Everyone keeps talking about how we need a Football Man between the owner and the GM. Why didn't I think of him?

Now my mind is made up. Bring back Ronnie.

He is a hard worker and as sharp as a tack, a titan on the field and a seasoned businessman...I'm in!
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by Blindfury:
Originally posted by TheXFactor:
Baalke may not be the best with drafting offense. But he did get Hyde.

And hyde is running into a brick wall. Too bad Baalke didn't bother putting the right line in front of him.
you must have missed the memo,, its ok cuz we have a qb who can at least get rid of the ball quicker before the pass rush kills him. problem solved. my head hurts so bad

Not sure it'll matter, they're definitely going to blitz the s**t out of the o-line on Sunday.

Our o-line is good at making even the most pedestrian pass rushers look like LT in his prime.
[ Edited by itlynstalyn on Nov 6, 2015 at 10:02 AM ]
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by English:
Damn! Ronnie Lott! Everyone keeps talking about how we need a Football Man between the owner and the GM. Why didn't I think of him?

Now my mind is made up. Bring back Ronnie.

He is a hard worker and as sharp as a tack, a titan on the field and a seasoned businessman...I'm in!
and bring back willis or someone who can teach these guys to tackle. sloppy sloppy
  • 4ML
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Originally posted by TheXFactor:
Originally posted by boast:
Originally posted by Boagrius49:
Originally posted by boast:
reality check...


Bill Walsh was 2-14 in first year. most of you guys would be calling for his firing had the WZ existed back then.

Sure, some people might. But, what if Harbaugh went 2-14 in his first year? I think most rational people would give him the benefit of the doubt. You know why? He's done it before. Walsh also won at Stanford. Tomsula hasn't won/done anything to give us hope, IMO.

the WZ would give someone the benefit of the doubt?????? lol. are you new here?

exactly, only 20% of the Zone is actually rational.

This...the rational ones on this site also predicted Tomsula will be a solid to great hire. Yeup...they're the rational ones.


It's hilarious that this group keeps labeling everyone irrational when they have been so wrong about this hire.

...and let's not intentionally make stuff up. Nolan did get benefit of doubt. So did Singletary during his first year. You don't get benefit of doubt when you take a perfectly fine team and turn it into a joke.
[ Edited by 4ML on Nov 6, 2015 at 10:55 AM ]
Originally posted by 4ML:
This...the rational ones on this site also predicted Tomsula will be a solid to great hire. Yeup...they're the rational ones.


It's hilarious that this group keeps labeling everyone irrational when they have been so wrong about this hire.

...and let's not intentionally make stuff up. Nolan did get benefit of doubt. So did Singletary during his first year. You don't get benefit of doubt when you take a perfectly fine team and turn it into a joke.
So you're saying after all these losses the niners are still a perfectly fine team? Who's the irrational one, dude? Bill Polian stated on NFL radio he doesn't remember as disastrous an offseason for a team like the one the Niners just endured when it came to losing players.
  • 4ML
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Originally posted by kem99:
Originally posted by TheXFactor:
This thread is a direct result of all these "fans" wanting to boycott the season.

Reality check

Losses:
1) Justin Smith- we all knew would be hanging it up soon. Can't replace the best 3-4 DE in the NFL. (before Watt)
2) Aldon Smith- absolute steal in the draft, he ruined his own career. Baalke had to cut him.
3) Chris Culliver- not worth 9 mill a year. Situation almost exactly like Goldson.
4) Cox- sucks we lost him, but he got 5 mill a year, not sure if he's worth that either.
5) A.Davis- huge loss, great RT, not Baalke's fault
6) Boreland- see A.Davis
7) Crabtree - everyone wanted him gone anyway. Never lived up to his potential.
8) Iupati- got way overpaid, and still not a great pass protector.
9) Gore - heartbreak,but he wanted to play for a contender
10) Willis - another huge loss, in talent and leadership, not Baalke's fault
11) RayMac - solid starter, knucklehead. out of Baalke's control
12) Dan Skuta- solid tackler, spot starter. Left for 4 mill per @ Jax

______________________________________________________

Now add losing Bethea for the season, Boldin being hurt, Hyde getting hurt, Kilgore getting hurt, Bush on IR, and Bowman being slow to return to form.

Tell me this, how the f*ck can any team come back from all that and be good in 1 year? We were always f*cked for 2015.

Harbaugh was an a$$hole, and in 2014 the offense was a joke, he had no answers. Putting up with him when we were winning is one thing, but 2014 was a major step backwards.

Most of you fans have your expectations way too high. Let this be a reality check.



There is no question that the deck was stacked against the 49ers as a result of the unexpected retirements of Willis, Borland and Davis and then Aldon Snith getting in trouble again and being released...however...

1. The 49ers knew Justin Smith was going year to year and we were told that they were prepared for his departure. Also, as great as Smith was, because of the wear and tear on his body, he wasn't playing as much and his level had dropped off, though he was still playing at a good level.

2. The 49ers plan out their salary cap and contract situations 2-3 years in advance, so they knew what would be happening with the likely loss of Culliver and Cox. On the scale of problems, this isn't that big of a deal.

3. Losing Crabtree hasn't been a big issue. Yes, he's having a bit of a revival in Oakland but it probably wouldn't have happened here and most would probably rather take their chances with T. Smith over Crabtree.

4. The 49ers had themselves covered for the loss of Gore with Hyde. The bigger problem is the choices made behind Hyde -- Bush hurt most of last year and is now an older RB, Hunter got released at the end of TC, Davis hasn't shown much so suddenly what was a deep position now isn't because of the personnel decisions for the back-up RB's.

5. Davis temporarily "retiring" after the draft was a huge blow but, the 49ers would have been in the same spot if say...Davis got hurt in OTA's (like Crabtree) or in the pre-season. Going back to before the 2014 season, it was considered unlikely that the 49ers would be able to resign Iupati, so the 49ers had plenty of opportunity to prepare for those losses and the best they could do was trade their 5th string TE for a back-up OG (Devey) and sign a journeyman OL (Pears) who is probably better at OG than OT at this point. Martin was a 2nd round pick and has been the worst C in the league. Thomas was hailed as Iupati's replacement and can't even be active for game days. The 49ers have been "searching" for that 3rd OT for the last couple of years and were never able to find one. Sorry, but you can't blame the OL's collapse totally on Davis retiring.

6. There's no doubt Harbaugh was difficult to deal with but you don't let a coach who is 44-19-1 and 5-3 in the playoffs walk where every other coaching choice you've made during your ownership has been a disaster. You complain about 2014 being a "major step backward", but the 49ers were 8-8 (despite the Jed York created distractions), which was the most successful year since the Yorks hired their first HC other than Harbaugh's 3 previous years. Yes, the offense had its problems in 2014 but it was still much better than the alternative Jed came up with.

If Jed was going to part ways with Harbaugh, he had to get it right and he failed miserably. Everyone knows that Tomsula is overmatched. There's a reason Chyst went 15 years between gigs as an OC. There's a reason Logan was a radio talk show host. Is there any other team that would hire Chyst as their OC? No. The Cardinals talked after thumping the 49ers about how easy the 49ers offensive scheme was to diagnose. Is there any other team that would hire Logan as their QB coach? No. While more likely, there also doesn't seem to be any other team that would have hired Mangini as their DC either.

There's been plenty of complaints about Harbaugh's staff on this board, but, all I heard during his tenure was that it was one of the top staffs in the NFL. It's obvious that Tomsula's staff is at or near the bottom and most, if not all, of Harbaugh's assistants that left, got gobbled up pretty quickly by other teams, including Roman.

If the point of your post was that no one should have expected 12-4 and a return to the NFC Championship Game, then, yes, you're right. 8-8 or even 7-9 given the off-season issues if Kap improved and the young players improved. 2-6 with the worst offense in the league (that is on par with the Jim Hostler led offense of 2007), perhaps the worst OL in the NFL (certainly at least from C, RG and RT) and having caused your franchise QB to become "mentally locked up"? That's the reality and its not acceptable when you ran off one of the best coaches in the league, hand picked his successor and promised this was a "reload" and not a rebuild.

Right guard (Devay) ranks last in performance in the NFL. Tiller ranks in the middle of the pack.

Reality Check: Start Tiller, bench Devay...
  • 4ML
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Originally posted by InTherapySinceDonahu:
Originally posted by 4ML:
This...the rational ones on this site also predicted Tomsula will be a solid to great hire. Yeup...they're the rational ones.


It's hilarious that this group keeps labeling everyone irrational when they have been so wrong about this hire.

...and let's not intentionally make stuff up. Nolan did get benefit of doubt. So did Singletary during his first year. You don't get benefit of doubt when you take a perfectly fine team and turn it into a joke.
So you're saying after all these losses the niners are still a perfectly fine team? Who's the irrational one, dude? Bill Polian stated on NFL radio he doesn't remember as disastrous an offseason for a team like the one the Niners just endured when it came to losing players.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. We won 8 games last season (lost 3 games we could have won) with bunch of major injuries, leaks in the media, and with a target on our back as one of the contenders.

There have been very few injuries this year (till last week or so when Hyde, Bush, and Bethea went down), no media leaks (till someone who likes Baalke leaked that he didn't want Tomsula) and our opponents have known all along that they didn't need to give 100% on every play to win games against us this season.

Let me ask you...is there a player you can positively point to who is playing much better this season because of this coaching staff? As far as I see - all the vets have regressed and 2nd year players have shown little to no progress - when they should be significantly better.
[ Edited by 4ML on Nov 6, 2015 at 11:37 AM ]
Originally posted by kem99:
1. The 49ers knew Justin Smith was going year to year and we were told that they were prepared for his departure. Also, as great as Smith was, because of the wear and tear on his body, he wasn't playing as much and his level had dropped off, though he was still playing at a good level.
drafted Carradine two years ago and AA this year, respectively. Would have liked us picking another 34-DE last year though.

2. The 49ers plan out their salary cap and contract situations 2-3 years in advance, so they knew what would be happening with the likely loss of Culliver and Cox. On the scale of problems, this isn't that big of a deal.
So???

3. Losing Crabtree hasn't been a big issue. Yes, he's having a bit of a revival in Oakland but it probably wouldn't have happened here and most would probably rather take their chances with T. Smith over Crabtree.
True....So?

4. The 49ers had themselves covered for the loss of Gore with Hyde. The bigger problem is the choices made behind Hyde -- Bush hurt most of last year and is now an older RB, Hunter got released at the end of TC, Davis hasn't shown much so suddenly what was a deep position now isn't because of the personnel decisions for the back-up RB's.
With Hyde going into this season as a clear-cut starter the need was of low priority ovr. Bush, imho, was not penciled in as a primary Hyde-backup anyway. Sure, one should count in Bush injury-proneness but you simply cannot plan for Hyde's AND Davis' injury timeouts. This is way too much to ask.

5. Davis temporarily "retiring" after the draft was a huge blow but, the 49ers would have been in the same spot if say...Davis got hurt in OTA's (like Crabtree) or in the pre-season. Going back to before the 2014 season, it was considered unlikely that the 49ers would be able to resign Iupati, so the 49ers had plenty of opportunity to prepare for those losses and the best they could do was trade their 5th string TE for a back-up OG (Devey) and sign a journeyman OL (Pears) who is probably better at OG than OT at this point. Martin was a 2nd round pick and has been the worst C in the league. Thomas was hailed as Iupati's replacement and can't even be active for game days. The 49ers have been "searching" for that 3rd OT for the last couple of years and were never able to find one. Sorry, but you can't blame the OL's collapse totally on Davis retiring.
1) Pears is ok as a backup.
2) Wanted to get an OT-backup badly but it is still a difference between an injured Davis compared to a left one. In former case the need is of low priority again whereas in latter scenario you clearly need a starter NOW.

6. There's no doubt Harbaugh was difficult to deal with but you don't let a coach who is 44-19-1 and 5-3 in the playoffs walk where every other coaching choice you've made during your ownership has been a disaster. You complain about 2014 being a "major step backward", but the 49ers were 8-8 (despite the Jed York created distractions), which was the most successful year since the Yorks hired their first HC other than Harbaugh's 3 previous years. Yes, the offense had its problems in 2014 but it was still much better than the alternative Jed came up with.
We were 8-8 thanks to the D only. Kaepernick regressed even more and Harbaugh was a year away from free agency. A decision needed to be made.

If Jed was going to part ways with Harbaugh, he had to get it right and he failed miserably. Everyone knows that Tomsula is overmatched. There's a reason Chyst went 15 years between gigs as an OC. There's a reason Logan was a radio talk show host. Is there any other team that would hire Chyst as their OC? No. The Cardinals talked after thumping the 49ers about how easy the 49ers offensive scheme was to diagnose. Is there any other team that would hire Logan as their QB coach? No. While more likely, there also doesn't seem to be any other team that would have hired Mangini as their DC either.
According to your logic guys like Gruden, Dungy etc. suck.
The offense was apparently simplified thanks to Kaep's limitations that existed last year as well. If two coaches cannot handle that, then perhaps the talent is too limited.

There's been plenty of complaints about Harbaugh's staff on this board, but, all I heard during his tenure was that it was one of the top staffs in the NFL. It's obvious that Tomsula's staff is at or near the bottom and most, if not all, of Harbaugh's assistants that left, got gobbled up pretty quickly by other teams, including Roman.
Roman is responsible for the rushing offense only. Anyone else? Fangio and Donnatell, liked both of them but let's face the facts:
points per game, Bears: 28.9, 29th (49ers: 25.9, 23rd)
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