Week 4 2015: Thoughts after rewatching the game...

Great analysis Marvin. This was a very hard game to watch, and the reasons are getting old. For me, taking a panoramic view of this whole sh!t sandwich that the fans have been forced to eat, I cannot put much blame on Jimmie T. He was put in an impossible situation. The blame should sit right at the doorstep of York and Baalke. Say what you will about JH but the guy won, and was able to attract a very good staff. And IMHO that was all blown up for some of the most immature, silliest of reasons. From what I read JH wanted Kaep drafted, in the 1st no less. And it was JH who was able to get the most out of him and his talents. It's clear that all that left the day JH and his staff was ushered out the door. Now, without JH, surprise surprise, Kaep is struggling miserably. Plus, Baalke, over the last 5 drafts on a whole, hasn't really done a particularly good job. I mean, we have whole drafts where not one is on this current roster. We have drafted players who are sitting - healthy, Baalke guys - on the margins of the starting lineup, particularly on the O-line. Say what you will about retirements but Baalke hasn't drafted well at all, and the reality could be that JH, for all his flaws, was a good enough coach to coach around and hide Baalke's draft deficiencies. Without JH those deficiencies are being laid bare-ass naked for the world to see.

This game, and the other 2 losses, is a direct reflection of Baalke and York's handling of the team. They wanted JH out and they got it. They wanted a more agreeable coach and they got it. When is it safe to say that what they want isn't what this team needs?

To Baakle and York I have to ask:
Are you happy now? How green is the grass on this post-Harbaugh side?

Originally posted by OneMoreRing:

Sometimes

I also heard from reliable sources that the fight just a day earlier between Aldon and Kaep did happen, and that the FO and coaching staff contributed to it by constantly riding Kaep about being tougher and standing up more. Aldon is Bipolar and they pushed Kaep to confront him and the next day he drinks and loses it. Sounds nuts but this came from an agent involved. Maybe it's BS but the original source is a friend of mine who used to play pro ball and has connections

But whatever. Nothing is worse than watching Aldon run around in a Raider jersey knowing he was still eligible to play for the niners. Yes, it would have been crazy to have kept him, but crazy is better than 2-14 and another 9 year rebuild. Aldon is not sexual predator or a psycopath.

Sorry to hijack this thread, just so damn sick that we had only 3 good years and now back in the dumpster

no, if you want to be taken serious, you have to walk the talk. there is no way around it.
Aldon had multiple chances and failed.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Great analysis Marvin. This was a very hard game to watch, and the reasons are getting old. For me, taking a panoramic view of this whole sh!t sandwich that the fans have been forced to eat, I cannot put much blame on Jimmie T. He was put in an impossible situation. The blame should sit right at the doorstep of York and Baalke. Say what you will about JH but the guy won, and was able to attract a very good staff. And IMHO that was all blown up for some of the most immature, silliest of reasons. From what I read JH wanted Kaep drafted, in the 1st no less. And it was JH who was able to get the most out of him and his talents. It's clear that all that left the day JH and his staff was ushered out the door. Now, without JH, surprise surprise, Kaep is struggling miserably. Plus, Baalke, over the last 5 drafts on a whole, hasn't really done a particularly good job. I mean, we have whole drafts where not one is on this current roster. We have drafted players who are sitting - healthy, Baalke guys - on the margins of the starting lineup, particularly on the O-line. Say what you will about retirements but Baalke hasn't drafted well at all, and the reality could be that JH, for all his flaws, was a good enough coach to coach around and hide Baalke's draft deficiencies. Without JH those deficiencies are being laid bare-ass naked for the world to see.

This game, and the other 2 losses, is a direct reflection of Baalke and York's handling of the team. They wanted JH out and they got it. They wanted a more agreeable coach and they got it. When is it safe to say that what they want isn't what this team needs?

To Baakle and York I have to ask:
Are you happy now? How green is the grass on this post-Harbaugh side?

Bravo!

Unfortunately Jed is fine with fielding the worst team in the league. All he see's are profits since the seats have already been sold. Firing Harbaugh and hiring a cheap Tomsula meant a bigger profit. Jed is very happy with his green pasture.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Great analysis Marvin. This was a very hard game to watch, and the reasons are getting old. For me, taking a panoramic view of this whole sh!t sandwich that the fans have been forced to eat, I cannot put much blame on Jimmie T. He was put in an impossible situation. The blame should sit right at the doorstep of York and Baalke. Say what you will about JH but the guy won, and was able to attract a very good staff. And IMHO that was all blown up for some of the most immature, silliest of reasons. From what I read JH wanted Kaep drafted, in the 1st no less. And it was JH who was able to get the most out of him and his talents. It's clear that all that left the day JH and his staff was ushered out the door. Now, without JH, surprise surprise, Kaep is struggling miserably. Plus, Baalke, over the last 5 drafts on a whole, hasn't really done a particularly good job. I mean, we have whole drafts where not one is on this current roster. We have drafted players who are sitting - healthy, Baalke guys - on the margins of the starting lineup, particularly on the O-line. Say what you will about retirements but Baalke hasn't drafted well at all, and the reality could be that JH, for all his flaws, was a good enough coach to coach around and hide Baalke's draft deficiencies. Without JH those deficiencies are being laid bare-ass naked for the world to see.

This game, and the other 2 losses, is a direct reflection of Baalke and York's handling of the team. They wanted JH out and they got it. They wanted a more agreeable coach and they got it. When is it safe to say that what they want isn't what this team needs?

To Baakle and York I have to ask:
Are you happy now? How green is the grass on this post-Harbaugh side?

Fair points. I like that Baalke is a cold and calculating talent evaluator. In most sports, I think the wheelers and dealers tend to get themselves in trouble. I agree that his drafts, present and future, will ultimately define his tenure, however good or bad. He's the personnel guy, so he holds the ultimate responsibility.

That said, I don't think it's fair to say Harbaugh didn't contribute to the current talent level. Baalke doesn't hold each draftee's hand; it's a process that requires coaches to develop the players. This isn't to say Harbaugh is a bad coach. I just think he was wholly focused on the win-now. Good staffs win. Great staffs keep an eye on the present and the future (ala Bill Walsh's approach to handling rookies).
For me, the three points that come to mind are:
1. Harbaugh constantly rode the veterans at the expense of their health and PT for younger players. Maybe the pounding would have gotten to those retirees anyway, but it's hard to conclusively rate the failed prospects if they rarely played or got pre-empted by a week-to-week veteran FA signing.
2. Kaep. He was probably pressed into duty too fast. It appears that they got around this by having the coaches disseminate play information, to the detriment of clock management. Now, we have a 5th year qb that isn't reading defenses all that well. What did he learn the first four years? It's not like Baalke told the coaches not to develop him. I hope the light goes off, but I'm not optimistic at this point. The franchise qb is probably the single most important cog to any plan, even if he's just a game manager.
3. Reid. Maybe it's Mangenius' system, but he's really regressed. Did Harbaugh force the trade up because he liked Reid since his Stanford recruiting days? I know Reid isn't a key piece like a franchise qb, but I wonder if this was one instance where Jed told Baalke to acquiesce Harbaugh.

To Baakle and York I have to ask: Are you happy now? How green is the grass on this post-Harbaugh side?

They probably knew this was a rebuild year with Kaep as the main decision point. I'm sure Willis/AD/Cowboy's health was no secret in the facility.
It also isn't exactly post-Harbaugh if they are still dealing with the shell of a qb he left them.


In summary, I don't think Harbs was the long-term answer at this time. But, I am not 100% sold on Baalke either. He really needs to nail the next few drafts (if he's around). So far, I think Tomsula and co. are showing signs of grooming the youngsters. If this fails though, Baalke definitely gets the blame for a failed second window of contention.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

One of the really telling moments was on the sideline late in the game. Kap had just thrown a terrible pass, maybe it was the interception, and he was sitting there with Logan and Gabbert just staring at the sheet. No one was saying anything until Blaine pointed something out to Logan, seemingly to break the awkward staring silence. There was just this feeling of no confidence from anyone there. A QB has to be able to break from being rattled. A short memory is what makes good QBs goodand bad QBs really terrible, but at least they're consistent and you know where their place is. Kap is clearly rattled from poor oline play. It happened last year after a decent start to the season and it's happening again. I get that you can't trust your oline to provide a pocket, but you have to not let that force you to lose all confidence and play scared. This may be his achilies heal. If he can find some mental fortitude to take a beating but deliver the football and give this team a chance, he may stick around. But if he can't, then he'll be as worthless as the oline in front of him, and that will guarantee suckage.

Exactly right all the greats, in any sport, have the mentality that the next one is going in, or will be a completion.

You need that self confidence that no matter what just happened your good enough to rectify it next chance you get.

Its that swagger that pisses people off. All successful people have that inner confidence, it comes off as arrogance and rubs people the wrong way but so be it.


Its sad to think last year we were all blasting our offense for kicking feild goals and now im sure everyone here would take 5 fgs and a touchdown per game.

Great analysis as per usual marv.

My question is if this continues who does jed blame. He obviously isnt the type of man to say "hey i picked tomsula the blame is on me, i should be sacked but im the owner so we move on and try again"

I can see baalke being made the scapegoat here. I think its clear he didnt want tomsula, even in the introductory presser he looked like he was amused with how tomsula was speaking. But jed needs to blame someone and baalke is the only other person who we would see as having a hand in the hiring process.

I've rewatched a few of the offensive drives to see how things went, and I'm coming round to it being on Kaep more than anything.

Yes, the O-Line is pretty diabolical, but Kaep just holds on to the ball too long, and won't pull the trigger. He has receivers open, and quick options, and half the time he looks, but just won't make the throw. No anticipation, and no awareness.

The defense knows this, so they just pin their ears back, and know he's never going to make the quick throws to make them pay for it. I've always thought he was going to progress and become a great QB, but that seems very unlikely now.

Go watch the Broncos Vikings game. Denver were constantly in the backfield, but Bridgewater was able to make quick decisions, and get the ball out. Yeah, they didn't win, but kept it competitive. CK would have just taken sack after sack.

Originally posted by Method:

Here's why I want to move on from kap:



Points Per Game

Completely unacceptable.

Takes a whole team to score points (including coaching staff) not just a QB....More problems in SF then just the QB.

Originally posted by zonkers:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Great analysis Marvin. This was a very hard game to watch, and the reasons are getting old. For me, taking a panoramic view of this whole sh!t sandwich that the fans have been forced to eat, I cannot put much blame on Jimmie T. He was put in an impossible situation. The blame should sit right at the doorstep of York and Baalke. Say what you will about JH but the guy won, and was able to attract a very good staff. And IMHO that was all blown up for some of the most immature, silliest of reasons. From what I read JH wanted Kaep drafted, in the 1st no less. And it was JH who was able to get the most out of him and his talents. It's clear that all that left the day JH and his staff was ushered out the door. Now, without JH, surprise surprise, Kaep is struggling miserably. Plus, Baalke, over the last 5 drafts on a whole, hasn't really done a particularly good job. I mean, we have whole drafts where not one is on this current roster. We have drafted players who are sitting - healthy, Baalke guys - on the margins of the starting lineup, particularly on the O-line. Say what you will about retirements but Baalke hasn't drafted well at all, and the reality could be that JH, for all his flaws, was a good enough coach to coach around and hide Baalke's draft deficiencies. Without JH those deficiencies are being laid bare-ass naked for the world to see.

This game, and the other 2 losses, is a direct reflection of Baalke and York's handling of the team. They wanted JH out and they got it. They wanted a more agreeable coach and they got it. When is it safe to say that what they want isn't what this team needs?

To Baakle and York I have to ask:
Are you happy now? How green is the grass on this post-Harbaugh side?

Fair points. I like that Baalke is a cold and calculating talent evaluator. In most sports, I think the wheelers and dealers tend to get themselves in trouble. I agree that his drafts, present and future, will ultimately define his tenure, however good or bad. He's the personnel guy, so he holds the ultimate responsibility.

That said, I don't think it's fair to say Harbaugh didn't contribute to the current talent level. Baalke doesn't hold each draftee's hand; it's a process that requires coaches to develop the players. This isn't to say Harbaugh is a bad coach. I just think he was wholly focused on the win-now. Good staffs win. Great staffs keep an eye on the present and the future (ala Bill Walsh's approach to handling rookies).
For me, the three points that come to mind are:
1. Harbaugh constantly rode the veterans at the expense of their health and PT for younger players. Maybe the pounding would have gotten to those retirees anyway, but it's hard to conclusively rate the failed prospects if they rarely played or got pre-empted by a week-to-week veteran FA signing.
2. Kaep. He was probably pressed into duty too fast. It appears that they got around this by having the coaches disseminate play information, to the detriment of clock management. Now, we have a 5th year qb that isn't reading defenses all that well. What did he learn the first four years? It's not like Baalke told the coaches not to develop him. I hope the light goes off, but I'm not optimistic at this point. The franchise qb is probably the single most important cog to any plan, even if he's just a game manager.
3. Reid. Maybe it's Mangenius' system, but he's really regressed. Did Harbaugh force the trade up because he liked Reid since his Stanford recruiting days? I know Reid isn't a key piece like a franchise qb, but I wonder if this was one instance where Jed told Baalke to acquiesce Harbaugh.

To Baakle and York I have to ask: Are you happy now? How green is the grass on this post-Harbaugh side?

They probably knew this was a rebuild year with Kaep as the main decision point. I'm sure Willis/AD/Cowboy's health was no secret in the facility.
It also isn't exactly post-Harbaugh if they are still dealing with the shell of a qb he left them.


In summary, I don't think Harbs was the long-term answer at this time. But, I am not 100% sold on Baalke either. He really needs to nail the next few drafts (if he's around). So far, I think Tomsula and co. are showing signs of grooming the youngsters. If this fails though, Baalke definitely gets the blame for a failed second window of contention.

1st.
I never said that Harbaugh didn't contribute to the current talent level. As I said, HE wanted Kaep very bad. While I cannot blame him for wanting a guy that he thinks fits his system I can fault him for drafting a guy that nobody can coach but him.

2nd.
When you speak of JH "rode the veterans", which I agree that he and Fangio did. But could it be that the "talent" that Baalke was drafting was just so piss-poor or injured, or otherwise needing of developmental attention, that JH & Company felt the need to field the players that best gave the team the best chance to win while those players "developed" or healed? Furthermore, could it be said that Baalke's draft philosophy leans heavy (way too heavy) on "developing" by the coaches because his eye for talent, given the last 5 drafts, is pedestrian at best? It seems to me that what he's doing is simply throwing numbers at position problems (for example, WR and CB) with mid and low round players (stockpiling draft picks) and expecting the coaching staff to just "coach them up", regardless of the talent level of the player. And with the departure of JH and retirements, in particular Anthony Davis, Baalke's draft strategy is being exposed.

And 3rd
I don't think Reid has regressed at all. Mangini is asking him, among other players (like Brooks cover Larry Fitzgerald) to do things out of their skill-set. Nobody looks good doing that.

Bottom line, JH was a long-term answer, that is until ego and immaturity got in the way of Baalke and York.

Thanks Marvin, you could have blasted Kap but you didn't. When a pro QB can't make a sideline throw how long do you stay with him? With his elongated throwing motion he telegraphs his throws. Yes, Kap can be fixed, get him the best OL in the game and the Niner D from 3 years ago.

Originally posted by zonkers:

To Baakle and York I have to ask: Are you happy now? How green is the grass on this post-Harbaugh side?

They probably knew this was a rebuild year with Kaep as the main decision point. I'm sure Willis/AD/Cowboy's health was no secret in the facility.
It also isn't exactly post-Harbaugh if they are still dealing with the shell of a qb he left them.

In summary, I don't think Harbs was the long-term answer at this time. But, I am not 100% sold on Baalke either. He really needs to nail the next few drafts (if he's around). So far, I think Tomsula and co. are showing signs of grooming the youngsters. If this fails though, Baalke definitely gets the blame for a failed second window of contention.

Great post! This is where I'm at as well.

Coaching/development/philosophy/scheme/game planning/execution is an end-point to evaluating a GM often and that's a tough spot to be in. But he promoted and hired these coaches too. An example of this is how is DeMarco Murray looking under a new system and OL? Obviously that's not a talent issue is it? We saw what Mangini did after two back-to-back fails against the Steelers and Cards. He rethought his philosophy and changed his scheme. He asked his OLB's to primarily rush again which lead to a very frustrated Rodgers and 3 sacks by them. A GM can not control that. For all we know, Geep and Mangini, having seen first hand, the issues with the offense and defense, told Baalke all he wanted to hear...then reinforced it in training camp...then went full potato once the season started. They too are feeling their way through being 'the man.' But at the end of the day, it does drop on Baalke's doorstep.

Youngsters are starting to play well now so that's encouraging (2014 and 2015 drafts).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by zonkers:

To Baakle and York I have to ask: Are you happy now? How green is the grass on this post-Harbaugh side?

They probably knew this was a rebuild year with Kaep as the main decision point. I'm sure Willis/AD/Cowboy's health was no secret in the facility.
It also isn't exactly post-Harbaugh if they are still dealing with the shell of a qb he left them.

In summary, I don't think Harbs was the long-term answer at this time. But, I am not 100% sold on Baalke either. He really needs to nail the next few drafts (if he's around). So far, I think Tomsula and co. are showing signs of grooming the youngsters. If this fails though, Baalke definitely gets the blame for a failed second window of contention.

Great post! This is where I'm at as well.

Coaching/development/philosophy/scheme/game planning/execution is an end-point to evaluating a GM often and that's a tough spot to be in. But he promoted and hired these coaches too. An example of this is how is DeMarco Murray looking under a new system and OL? Obviously that's not a talent issue is it? We saw what Mangini did after two back-to-back fails against the Steelers and Cards. He rethought his philosophy and changed his scheme. He asked his OLB's to primarily rush again which lead to a very frustrated Rodgers and 3 sacks by them. A GM can not control that. For all we know, Geep and Mangini, having seen first hand, the issues with the offense and defense, told Baalke all he wanted to hear...then reinforced it in training camp...then went full potato once the season started. They too are feeling their way through being 'the man.' But at the end of the day, it does drop on Baalke's doorstep.

Youngsters are starting to play well now so that's encouraging (2014 and 2015 drafts).

So Baalke gets a mulligan for the 2011, 2012, and 2013? Not to mention that we've have 5 starters from the 2014 and 2015 drafts, only two of which I can say I'm really excited about (Lynch and Armstead). Tartt isn't a starter, but I'm on record as stating that he should over Bethea. Ward was over drafted in my mind. And for a first rounder he's under-performed.

For all of those on here who are jumping on Chryst for being too vanilla or playcalling being suspect.

Has ANYONE stopped to think that maybe he can't stay in rhythm because his offensive line continues to commit senseless penalties that kill any momentum and drive the team back repeatedly???

How can you catch a flow as a playcaller when your offense can't stop drawing yellow laundry???

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
So Baalke gets a mulligan for the 2011, 2012, and 2013? Not to mention that we've have 5 starters from the 2014 and 2015 drafts, only two of which I can say I'm really excited about (Lynch and Armstead). Tartt isn't a starter, but I'm on record as stating that he should over Bethea. Ward was over drafted in my mind. And for a first rounder he's under-performed.

Nobody is giving anybody a pass. I made a point about how so far, through 4 games, we're starting to see some talent emerge. If you want to revisit 2011, 2012 and 2013, there is a Baalke thread for that. But I'm pretty sure Harbaugh, nor anybody, was complaining about "the deepest roster in football" during that 3-year run.

Like even right now, our only real big holes on talent is the OL (duh), QB's head/vision and perhaps (this is a huge one though) and another pass rusher (although both Lynch and Brooks had 2 sacks each last game with the scheme change; although one was thrown out thanks to Wilhoite's critical penalty). And then upgrade where/if you can in the draft (tons of picks)/FA (tons of $).

Like with the Ravens, this is a turnover year (after their Superbowl). Clearly.

The rest of the 2014 and 2015 picks just need to continue to develop like they are. I'm rewatching the game right now as we speak and I'm very very encouraged by the defensive game plan and how the players executed it. I think Mangini finally got it (fingers crossed). I don't like seeing TJE and Lemonier out there (and no Harold) but they didn't seem to hurt us. Ward, Tartt, Acker, Brock, Reaser, Johnson, etc. all had blanket coverage all day. AA, Dial/Carradine and Williams all looked good. Some conservative, hesitant play by Reid and Bethea but it's starting to look like Mangini's game plans put a lot on the S's (thinking a lot) along with Bowman (blue dot).

Offense? Boldin, T.Smith and Ellington? Shoot, that's a terrific lineup. We could be using Ellington the same way GB moved Cobb around all over the field to create mismatches. But we don't. We have one of the best deep threats in the game and have targeted him, on realistic attempts, what 3 times all year? Boldin is still running go-routes and stupid fades in the EZ. We used Hyde, what, 9 times last game? Remember 3 TE's? Running to the right (weak side). McDonald should only be out there blocking (amazing drive blocks this game esp. in the open field for CK...go watch) yet he's out there to bail out CK on a critical 3rd and 9 instead of Celek/Bell, etc. Just a lot of odd stuff with the offense right now and it's not making life easy for CK. But he's a hot mess right now too. I'm not so sure he isn't psychologically damaged at this point. He's just broken down completely, it appears. 2 years of running for your life and just learning how to be a pocket passer this off season behind the worst OL in the game will do that to a guy, I guess?

Originally posted by reasonable1:
For all of those on here who are jumping on Chryst for being too vanilla or playcalling being suspect.

Has ANYONE stopped to think that maybe he can't stay in rhythm because his offensive line continues to commit senseless penalties that kill any momentum and drive the team back repeatedly???

How can you catch a flow as a playcaller when your offense can't stop drawing yellow laundry???

Man, I'm watching the game again right now...killer calls. First, the Wilhoite call after a 3 and out and sack by Brooks. Then, next series we're down 0-7. Offense has to press, 3rd and 2, and CK gets called for drawing Raji off. Now, instead of 1st down, it's 3rd and 7 and we come up a yard short. Punt. Shank.

These little things are just killers esp. re: momentum. And we seem to get a lot of holding calls in the RZ too or at the worst times.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by reasonable1:

For all of those on here who are jumping on Chryst for being too vanilla or playcalling being suspect.

Has ANYONE stopped to think that maybe he can't stay in rhythm because his offensive line continues to commit senseless penalties that kill any momentum and drive the team back repeatedly???

How can you catch a flow as a playcaller when your offense can't stop drawing yellow laundry???

Man, I'm watching the game again right now...killer calls. First, the Wilhoite call after a 3 and out and sack by Brooks. Then, next series we're down 0-7. Offense has to press, 3rd and 2, and CK gets called for drawing Raji off. Now, instead of 1st down, it's 3rd and 7 and we come up a yard short. Punt. Shank.

These little things are just killers esp. re: momentum. And we seem to get a lot of holding calls in the RZ too or at the worst times.

The awful thing is that killer officiating blunders like that are so horrific for us now because we're just not in a good place to overcome them. If we get screwed, it's like, "Well that's it, guess we're not scoring this drive." Or "Well, guess we're not getting a first down now." And it's like we're helpless.

I do believe we'll see improvement. 4 games is way too early, especially without Kilgore. This new offense and blocking scheme isn't going to come together that quickly. I want to see what we look like in game 6-8, but I'm impatient as all get-out. I can't handle the waiting, but I know it's something we've just got to deal with.

The positive we saw is that the team DOES seem capable of making corrections -- the defense was incredible considering what Rodgers has done to other teams and how bad our D was for two straight weeks. So perhaps the Offense is next to follow when it comes to making a leap in improvement.