Deja Vu...2014 all over again...Yogi Berra | Page 3

pasodoc9er · 2015-08-30T09:36:06-07:00

That is exactly what Yogi would have said. Fri and Sat, there were at least 3 elite teams with the BIG RUSH on display....SEA, SD, and Denver, and there are a number of others. So the BIG RUSH is NOT something we will just see once or twice this yr. The 4 Suspects of deja vu 2014: 1. OL...Ok, Denver is elite with a BIG RUSH, the thing that just killed us last yr. Guys were coming around both ends of the OL like water around rocks in a river. And it wasn't just R side of OL, it was both. Last yr harbaw didn't realize this, but JT and staff do...but couldn't change the outcome. Yes, we dearly miss AD, way more than anyone thot we would. We have one starter out. True JT was trying to work everybody on OL to see who goes, who stays. But truth is , we are a woefully short of talent on this OL. Pears, Devey , Martin, Looney...nobody looked good. Some is due to not having good complimentary OL guys, but nobody looked good. Looks like we will be drafting OL with our first pick each of next 3 yrs...or should be. No more taking a mid round OL and thinking you are going to coach him up. We need first rounders....and 3 of them unfortunately 2. Opponents DL...there were 3 super Elite teams on display F & S, with the BIG RUSH. There are also more elites out there with BIG RUSH. If we don't get a better handle on this, our season is over before it starts. Point is , figure the RUSH from last nite to be the norm, not the exception. And Von Miller just killed us. 3. Kap...unh, oh. Sure looked reminiscent of last yr, and where did that experience with Kurt Warner go? He once again held the ball too long, was not seeing his receivers, and was taking sacks and hits instead of throwing ball away. It is obvious that kap needs way more time in PS...ie get him more snaps, and sooner than PS Game #3. HIs two long runs were spectacular...but his passing looked like last half of last yr. It appears he just can't get the ball gone in the 1.9 seconds he had. I still wonder if he understands ball has to come out immediately against the elites BIG RUSH. Sure doesn't look like it. It wasn't all on him tho due to .... 4. Coaching... Ok, harbaw is gone, along with his no O. We do not have enough talent on OL to protect kap. This game looked like an extension of last yr, but with different coaches. If kap takes a 5 or 3 step drop and the D is on him immediately, then Geep and JT should have been throwing quick hitters...as in bang, bang, ball is gone. And where were the release valves we were told we would see?. When kap gets nailed within 2 seconds after receiving the snap, then the ball has to come out with 1 step...or no steps. Snap it, receive it, pass it. We saw none of that. It is so simple. Ball has to be gone before BIG RUSH gets him. Zero steppers, and release valves out of backfield, or 1 step shots to WR, TE, or RB. 1.9 seconds is what Eli says is necessary to beat the BIG RUSH. That is what kap had last nite. So our quick hitters have to be done in under 1.9 seconds. Our OL just could not give kap any time. Beat that with coaching. Have ball gone before 1.9 seconds. And don't count on this OL to get kap any more than under 2 seconds protection. Coaching laid an egg in not calling for 1 steppers, or better, zero steppers. That implies that every receiver must be looking for the ball the moment the ball is snapped. We saw none of that. But put this shortcoming at feet of coaching.

Aug 31, 2015 at 11:01 AM

#31

susweel
Hall of Nepal
Posts: 122,009

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
It is funny how at end of last yr, everybody's main concern, or most of us anyway, was...the OL. Well, here we are, and sure enough, the OL is the bugaboo. True there were 9 other main problems, (incl a #2 QB which now seems fixed), but OL was always the real problem...and here we are. I still am holding out hope that once the OL is set, it doesn't look so bad, as the cuts will be done and we will know who our starters are. Once there, I can't help but believe the OL gets better. Playing a potential starter next to a guy who can't possibly make the team, just makes them both look bad. And some of that has definitely colored our opinions re: the OL to date.

The biggest problem is our draft picks Martin and Thomas have not developed as hoped and AD retiring but there was still some time to pick up another body or two at RT but we didn't.

Aug 31, 2015 at 11:20 AM

#32

Young2Rice
Veteran
Posts: 71,708

Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
It is funny how at end of last yr, everybody's main concern, or most of us anyway, was...the OL. Well, here we are, and sure enough, the OL is the bugaboo. True there were 9 other main problems, (incl a #2 QB which now seems fixed), but OL was always the real problem...and here we are. I still am holding out hope that once the OL is set, it doesn't look so bad, as the cuts will be done and we will know who our starters are. Once there, I can't help but believe the OL gets better. Playing a potential starter next to a guy who can't possibly make the team, just makes them both look bad. And some of that has definitely colored our opinions re: the OL to date.

The biggest problem is our draft picks Martin and Thomas have not developed as hoped and AD retiring but there was still some time to pick up another body or two at RT but we didn't.

Same with Looney. He looks whack.

On the otherside, Tank isn't beasting like we hoped and Armstead and Ward are running with the 3rd stringers well into the 4th quarter of preseason games.

The CBs look solid and the OLB should be ok but not stellar. Safties are great.
Bow is the best player on the field.

[ Edited by Young2Rice on Aug 31, 2015 at 11:22 AM ]

Aug 31, 2015 at 11:22 AM

#33

Baldie
Veteran
Posts: 25,401

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
How the hell did we expect a head coach with no offense experience and very little head coaching experience and no coordinating experience to fix the offense.

Then we group him with an inexperienced offensive coordinator who hasn't done it in a decade and was belowaverage the two years he did do it.

And our top 5 GM though this was a good idea? Thiught this was going to work?

Our offense is in the hands of Geep and thats pretty much it.

This is going to be UGLY.

But at the end of the day....York is making money on the new stadium and SB 50 will be in town this season. I have faith as I do at the beginning of every season but like you said, this might get ugly. I honestly thought they would go with an OC as HC.

Aug 31, 2015 at 11:25 AM

#34

Baldie
Veteran
Posts: 25,401

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
It is funny how at end of last yr, everybody's main concern, or most of us anyway, was...the OL. Well, here we are, and sure enough, the OL is the bugaboo. True there were 9 other main problems, (incl a #2 QB which now seems fixed), but OL was always the real problem...and here we are. I still am holding out hope that once the OL is set, it doesn't look so bad, as the cuts will be done and we will know who our starters are. Once there, I can't help but believe the OL gets better. Playing a potential starter next to a guy who can't possibly make the team, just makes them both look bad. And some of that has definitely colored our opinions re: the OL to date.

The biggest problem is our draft picks Martin and Thomas have not developed as hoped and AD retiring but there was still some time to pick up another body or two at RT but we didn't.

The fact that the niners still have like $13 mil (I think this is the figure) in cap space at this point tells me they don't want to spend the money. I dunno if that figure includes Aldon's release either.

Aug 31, 2015 at 11:28 AM

#35

susweel
Hall of Nepal
Posts: 122,009

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
It is funny how at end of last yr, everybody's main concern, or most of us anyway, was...the OL. Well, here we are, and sure enough, the OL is the bugaboo. True there were 9 other main problems, (incl a #2 QB which now seems fixed), but OL was always the real problem...and here we are. I still am holding out hope that once the OL is set, it doesn't look so bad, as the cuts will be done and we will know who our starters are. Once there, I can't help but believe the OL gets better. Playing a potential starter next to a guy who can't possibly make the team, just makes them both look bad. And some of that has definitely colored our opinions re: the OL to date.

The biggest problem is our draft picks Martin and Thomas have not developed as hoped and AD retiring but there was still some time to pick up another body or two at RT but we didn't.

The fact that the niners still have like $13 mil (I think this is the figure) in cap space at this point tells me they don't want to spend the money. I dunno if that figure includes Aldon's release either.

This and letting go of Stevie Johnson looks to be head scratcher considering we have no 3rd wr. Don't know what the top 5 gm was thinking.

Aug 31, 2015 at 11:34 AM

#36

blm7754
Veteran
Posts: 2,785

This is preseason.... how are you supposed to evaluate offensive linemen if the plays call for the ball to be gone in under 2 seconds?

I agree that we are short of talent on the OL. But when OL is the position group you are most evaluating in preseason, why would you expect to see schemes that take the pressure off of the OL?

I'm not saying that we will magically be great on offense come regular season. But we will use scheme to take pressure off of the OL. However, scheming makes assumptions. In order to take pressure off traditional OL pass blocking, you need to be able to create throwing lanes. Receivers need to get open quickly. QB needs to find them and release quickly.

We won't know what our REAL problems are until week 4 or 5.

Aug 31, 2015 at 11:36 AM

#37

Baldie
Veteran
Posts: 25,401

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Baldie:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
It is funny how at end of last yr, everybody's main concern, or most of us anyway, was...the OL. Well, here we are, and sure enough, the OL is the bugaboo. True there were 9 other main problems, (incl a #2 QB which now seems fixed), but OL was always the real problem...and here we are. I still am holding out hope that once the OL is set, it doesn't look so bad, as the cuts will be done and we will know who our starters are. Once there, I can't help but believe the OL gets better. Playing a potential starter next to a guy who can't possibly make the team, just makes them both look bad. And some of that has definitely colored our opinions re: the OL to date.

The biggest problem is our draft picks Martin and Thomas have not developed as hoped and AD retiring but there was still some time to pick up another body or two at RT but we didn't.

The fact that the niners still have like $13 mil (I think this is the figure) in cap space at this point tells me they don't want to spend the money. I dunno if that figure includes Aldon's release either.

This and letting go of Stevie Johnson looks to be head scratcher considering we have no 3rd wr. Don't know what the top 5 gm was thinking.

Well I don't care that Stevie was released, I'd rather have Torrey over Stevie anyway. But there were chances on getting OL help in FA but they didn't even flinch. Now with the way the OL is. Yes they signed Torrey, thats awesome, but they needed to sign a WR because all they pretty much had left was Boldin. I just feel like they are trying to start the Randy Moss experiement all over again.

Aug 31, 2015 at 12:35 PM

#38

BadgerHawk
Veteran
Posts: 2,547

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
For the record, we would have looked a lot better, esp Kap, if we had not had such bad field position ...and wth Hayne playing, that would not have been the case. So lay some of this at feet of a PS game, where JT is trying to figure who to keep, and who goes.

Agreed. That PS game in Denver was a throw away.

Aug 31, 2015 at 1:53 PM

#39

pasodoc9er
Veteran
Posts: 21,040

Sus and Young...and where did Martin , Looney and Thomas NOT come from ?. Well, they didn't come from the first rd....and with few exceptions, if you want a starting OL, you really ought to be taking them in the first rd. Our best draft ever(recent yrs)? The yr we got iupati( I think, or was it AD?) around 15 or so and then jumped up and got staley at #28. Unfortunately, you want quality, that is how you get it on OL. This hackneyed "oh, we'll just get a mid round(3rd) Center and coach him up." How come I don't remember ANY of those? It must happen, but it also must be very unusual. That is why in the OP, I noted that "it looks like we will be drafting OL in the first rd next 3 yrs". Alternatively, an all pro OL plays out his contract yr and then breaks the bank with $8mil/yr contract or north of there.

Basically I have no real problems with Trent's picks(ok, AJ, etc....everybody makes a few of those), but not getting us first rd OL guys has been an omission we are now paying for. Listen, I desperately hope we coach up the 3 noted above, and who knows about Devey et al. But the good ones? That comes via first rd picks.

Blm, we are looking thru the same pair of glasses. I have noted many times before that getting the ball gone in under 1.9 seconds is a sine qua non of being a really good team or not. With what is questionable to poor performance of OL in PS, then the ball has to be gone in 1.9 secs. But in PS, when you are testing your guys on the OL, Coach T needs to know what individual OL guys can do on their own. It necessarily makes kap look bad...but heck, anybody would have looked bad behind our OL. So as you mentioned, it probably will be 4 games in until we know what we have in OL...and kap. Truly, no grading of kap, however, until the OL protects him. Then those that want to grade kap out, fine. Still without a good OL in front of him, any grading is worthless.

During the reg season, then Geep can use ZBS, and 1 second quick hitters. All is not lost as there are ways to coach around a weak OL. But in PS, JT was of necessity putting his OL guys under the gun to see who can sink...and who can swim.