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Colin Kaepernick Thread

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Originally posted by Phil-2:
Originally posted by genus49:
People who have an agenda don't care to put things in perspective. Every QB in the game is affected when their OL plays like crap. They start rushing throws, getting happy feet in the pocket, sensing pressure that's not there and getting their mechanics all out of whack.

He's the most pressured QB in the league it's not easy to always be on point ignoring now bad the OL is playing

Anyone recall how Tom Brady looked vs KC last year on MNF? That was Tom Friggin Brady. How did he look vs the Giants in the SB?

The agenda is to win a SuperBowl. Kaepernick has been on the decline since 2013. It was obvious after the Green Bay game to start the 2013 season. From that point on, the Seattle and Colts games, it has been a series of inconsistent, inaccurate bad passing games mixed with a couple good ones. In 2014 Kaepernick was a large cause of 4 losses. The Bears, Seahawks, Rams and Raiders games. We went 8-8 because our passing game was no good, especially in the redzone. Overall his PFF score has been sharply declining each year, and there are reasons for that not to be blamed on Roman, Harbaugh and the O-line.

You San Fransisco Kaepernick fan's make excuse after excuse where as many of us have seen the writing on the wall since 2013. How many times do people have to go over the details? Part of the dynamics here, especially on this forum, is the San Fransisco Kaepernick fan's absolutely refuse to acknowledge his severe limitations in the passing game, how and why that impacts our overall passing game, offense and chances at a SB victory. When doing so, this very vocal group of Kaepernick fan's become verbally abusive, agressivly and passive aggressively. It's almost bizarre. It is bizarre. Any other player, or even coach, can and has been thrown under the bus. Crabtree, V Davis, Roman, Harbaugh, S Johnson, Lloyd...even Gore got the blame at times. Gore was running into 9-10 man fronts precisely because our passing game wasn't a threat. Hyde will face the same thing. Much of the criticism is more so focused at the people who deny all his issues. That bears repeating. Once blame stops being diverted to every player around Kap people won't have to brow beat you with criticisms.


Each year it's the same story- blame the o-line, blame the receivers, blame the coaches. Kaepernick fan's are ready to turn on Chryst already, not realizing, or not admitting that Chryst has to deal with the same issues Roman had to deal with. How to create a passing game catered to a QB with so many issues. What's happening right now in Buffalo? 100 points scored in 3 games. Tyrod Taylor just played perfect under pressure last week. All of the sudden he's an effective QB while our QB struggles with an even more simplified offense. Enough is enough. Kaepernick is the main issue with our passing game. He is not and never will be a true passing QB. We can't just craft an offense out of bootlegs, play action ,the RO and designed rollouts. At some point he's going to have to pass with anticipation, step up in the crumbling pocket and make the quick pass after quickly scanning the field.

2014 he had the third longest time to throw in the NFL and yet took 45 sacks over the 2.8 second mark! The o-line was fine in 2013 when he decline began, after the first Green bay game Kaepernick stank up the field for weeks. Harbaugh had to put him in a very conservative game manger role, and that's how you win with Kaepernick. You need a top defense and top running game with a good o-line. He is incapable of leading this team to a SB victory without a top 5 defense, top 5 running game and great o-line. The added issue is, he has in fact objectively regressed since 2012 in large part because the NFL has tape on him. They're prepared for his run threat, which, by the way, has also been declining. Last year people kept saying we need to run Kap more, he actually ran more in 2014, he just suffered a drastic reduction in yards per attempt. Contain the edges, put a spy on him and make him beat you from the pocket. More times than not he can't win passing the ball. Deep ball accuracy has declined, rushing yards have declined, accuracy from the pocket has declined, his TD to turnover ratio is worsening each year. It's not good. In 2014 he had 19 TD's and 15 turnovers. So far this year he has 2 TD's and 5 turnovers, one of the TD's in garbage time (or was it both?).

He'll have a game or two where quick lateral passes or very short passes pad his completion %, but as soon as we start passing down the field we see 55%-60% completion rates. Even lower at times. Passing deep he was down at 30% completion. The Dallas, first Rams and first Cards game in 2014 made his stats. Other than that it was pretty bad. In 2013 he had 10 games passing under 200 yards. One game at 113 yards and another at 91 yards. 91 yards on 22 attempts! Another game at 127 yards on 28 attempts with a 48% completion rate. Another with 150 yards on 27 attempts with a 48% completion rate. Turnovers in clutch moments, bad passes in clutch moments, fumbles etc. Leaving open men on the field is routine.

Yes he played well in 2012 but this isn't 2012. You guys are living on hype. Living on this "potential" we're told will manifest every year. It hasn't manifested. Kaepernick has been headed downward, not upwards and you people do your damndest to blame everyone around him then call people "fake fans" when they focus on Kaepernick!!! It's bizzaro world.

I agree with some of this, but you're wrong on a couple things:

1. He was good in 2013. He had a top-10 QB rating, and won 12 games
2. He ran negligibly more in 2014 than 2013 - i.e. less than a rush a game
3. His yards per rush went UP last year, not DOWN
Originally posted by cwilson830:
I agree with some of this, but you're wrong on a couple things:

1. He was good in 2013. He had a top-10 QB rating, and won 12 games
2. He ran negligibly more in 2014 than 2013 - i.e. less than a rush a game
3. His yards per rush went UP last year, not DOWN

2 and 3
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/kaepernick-not-running-less-just-less-successful


1. No he wasn't good passing in 2013. He was good running the ball.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
He's not comparing him to Brady. He's pointing out instances where even Brady struggled under heavy pressure.

There is a direct correlation between getting pressured, and QB performance. Here is some statistical evidence for you, I will use Brady as an example.

Tom Brady QB rating with pressure v. no pressure

2014
No pressure -- 112.7
Pressure -- 55.5

2013
No pressure -- 96.3
Pressure -- 64.0

2012
No pressure -- 108.0
Pressure -- 55.8

2011
No pressure -- 110.6
Pressure -- 84.7

2010
No pressure -- 117.8
Pressure -- 84.5

2009
No pressure -- 102.9
Pressure -- 59.8

2008
No pressure -- 90.6
Pressure -- 66.0

2007
No pressure -- 124.3
Pressure -- 83.7

------------------------

Over the course of 8 seasons, on average Brady's QB rating dropped by a whopping 38.5 points while under pressure. 5 out of 8 seasons his QB rating was in the 60s and 50s while pressured. And that's one of the greatest QBs ever. So if he gets effected by pressure, damn near everyone does.

It's not a comparison to Kap. It's pointing out the very clear and indisputable fact that pressure severely hurts a QBs performance.

Brady is an exception to the rule. He has never handled pressure well. There are many QB's in the NFL who handle pressure much better than Tom Brady. Besides, in 2014 Kaepernick had the third longest to throw out of all the QB's and took 45 sacks past the 2.8 second mark. Chew on that for a moment. I know I know...it's Roman's fault.
Originally posted by Phil-2:
Brady is an exception to the rule. He has never handled pressure well. There are many QB's in the NFL who handle pressure much better than Tom Brady. Besides, in 2014 Kaepernick had the third longest to throw out of all the QB's and took 45 sacks past the 2.8 second mark. Chew on that for a moment. I know I know...it's Roman's fault.

You misunderstand that statistic. It's not the amount of time before he felt pressure. It is simply how much time elapsed before he threw the ball, or got sacked.

There are instances were his mobility bought him time, he got sacked, and more time elapsed. Same story for Russell Wilson, he consistently takes more time to release the ball, and it takes more time to sack him because of mobility.

It DOES NOT mean the offensive line is buying him more time. That is severely misunderstanding the stat. The Seahawks and 49ers o-line are clearly two of the worst pass blocking lines in the league.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Sep 30, 2015 at 7:07 PM ]
Tyrod Taylor is under pressure 42% of his passes but is completing 72%. What is Roman doing? Egh?
Originally posted by SofaKing:
You misunderstand that statistic. It's not the amount of time before he felt pressure. It is simply how much time elapsed before he got sacked.

There are instances were his mobility bought him time, he got sacked, and more time elapsed. Same story for Russell Wilson, he consistently takes more time to release the ball, and it takes more time to sack him because of mobility.

It DOES NOT mean the offensive line is buying him more time. That is severely misunderstanding the stat. The Seahawks and 49ers o-line are clearly two of the worst pass blocking lines in the league.

No I don't misunderstand that statistic. Kaepernick takes over 3 seconds to pass more than most NFL QB's.
kap is f**king terrible at making those split second throws with pressure in his face. for every incredible throw under pressure he has (see the NFC title game TD to boldin) he has 10 where he just f**king crumbles under the pressure even though there are places he could go with the ball.

i'm not saying he's a flat out garbage QB, but he's extremely inconsistent and because of that his ceiling is "average NFL QB". average NFL QB will get you into the playoffs and contending provided you have a great running game and a great defense (see russell wilson.... although at this point i don't think anyone can argue wussle isn't better than kap, he is). in todays NFL, if you have an average QB (and there is NO REASON teams should settle for this with the rules what they are) with an average D and/or average lilne, you're going to be 8-8 or below.

and that is where we are going to be this year and every other year where we have an average QB coupled with an average defense/line. 8-8 (highly doubtful) or below (much more likely)
Originally posted by SofaKing:
You misunderstand that statistic. It's not the amount of time before he felt pressure. It is simply how much time elapsed before he threw the ball, or got sacked.

There are instances were his mobility bought him time, he got sacked, and more time elapsed. Same story for Russell Wilson, he consistently takes more time to release the ball, and it takes more time to sack him because of mobility.

It DOES NOT mean the offensive line is buying him more time. That is severely misunderstanding the stat. The Seahawks and 49ers o-line are clearly two of the worst pass blocking lines in the league.

And Wilson is better. I wouldn't even want Wilson if given the opportunity to nab him. He's nothing without Seattle's top defense and running game.
Originally posted by Phil-2:
No I don't misunderstand that statistic. Kaepernick takes over 3 seconds to pass more than most NFL QB's.

No, you don't get it. You think because more time has elapsed, he's getting adequate time in the pocket. His mobility buys him extra time. Russell Wilson takes more time to throw the ball than Kap, and he also has a terrible pass blocking line. It's the MOBILITY that is buying more time and causing more time to elapse, not the actual time given to him to throw the ball by the offensive line.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
No, you don't get it. You think because more time has elapsed, he's getting adequate time in the pocket. His mobility buys him extra time. Russell Wilson takes more time to throw the ball than Kap, and he also has a terrible pass blocking line. It's the MOBILITY that is buying more time and causing more time to elapse, not the actual time given to him to throw the ball by the offensive line.

No I get it. Kaepernick holds onto the ball, leaves the pocket even without pressure and generally creates sacks when none should have happened.
You don;t get it. You're in denial.
Originally posted by Phil-2:
Originally posted by cwilson830:
I agree with some of this, but you're wrong on a couple things:

1. He was good in 2013. He had a top-10 QB rating, and won 12 games
2. He ran negligibly more in 2014 than 2013 - i.e. less than a rush a game
3. His yards per rush went UP last year, not DOWN

2 and 3
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/kaepernick-not-running-less-just-less-successful


1. No he wasn't good passing in 2013. He was good running the ball.
2 and 3:

2013: 92 for 524. Average of 5.7
2014: 104 for 639. Average of 6.1
6.1 > 5.7

1: If the 10th best QB rating isn't "good" then how would you define "good?" Top 5?
Just let him play the way he did back then. If it took them to the play off 3 times and Super Bowl once, why change it?
Originally posted by Phil-2:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
He's not comparing him to Brady. He's pointing out instances where even Brady struggled under heavy pressure.

There is a direct correlation between getting pressured, and QB performance. Here is some statistical evidence for you, I will use Brady as an example.

Tom Brady QB rating with pressure v. no pressure

2014
No pressure -- 112.7
Pressure -- 55.5

2013
No pressure -- 96.3
Pressure -- 64.0

2012
No pressure -- 108.0
Pressure -- 55.8

2011
No pressure -- 110.6
Pressure -- 84.7

2010
No pressure -- 117.8
Pressure -- 84.5

2009
No pressure -- 102.9
Pressure -- 59.8

2008
No pressure -- 90.6
Pressure -- 66.0

2007
No pressure -- 124.3
Pressure -- 83.7

------------------------

Over the course of 8 seasons, on average Brady's QB rating dropped by a whopping 38.5 points while under pressure. 5 out of 8 seasons his QB rating was in the 60s and 50s while pressured. And that's one of the greatest QBs ever. So if he gets effected by pressure, damn near everyone does.

It's not a comparison to Kap. It's pointing out the very clear and indisputable fact that pressure severely hurts a QBs performance.

Brady is an exception to the rule. He has never handled pressure well. There are many QB's in the NFL who handle pressure much better than Tom Brady. Besides, in 2014 Kaepernick had the third longest to throw out of all the QB's and took 45 sacks past the 2.8 second mark. Chew on that for a moment. I know I know...it's Roman's fault.

Every QB does worse under pressure than non-pressured.

One of Big Ben's claims to fame is he is only moderately worse under pressure than non-pressured.
Originally posted by Phil-2:
No I get it. Kaepernick holds onto the ball, leaves the pocket even without pressure and generally creates sacks when none should have happened.

Of QBs who took the majority of snaps in 2014, the 3 who took the longest to throw the ball were.

1. Russell Wilson
2. Colin Kaepernick
3. Aaron Rodgers

You want to make the claim Rodgers holds onto the ball and doesn't have a quick release?

There's more to the stat then simply holding the ball. Mobility, deeper route combinations, and play-action passing are just a few ways certain QBs will take longer to throw the ball on average.
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